Saved myself £1000+ yesterday, rode a HT…

Did 3 hours at Swinley yesterday and brought along a mate who’s fairly new. Let him have a quick go on my Meta AM29, which I then didn’t get back for the whole ride LOL.

Things I picked up from the day.. you CAN do everything on a HT, you can crusie, you can jump, drop, roots and bumps…

However, why in Gods name would you want to… I mean, really ? Unless racing, finite speed is completely irrelevant isn’t it ? It’s all about fun and comfort, which the 29FS absolutely walks all over the HT.

Now, his was a £500 HT I admit, so not that light, not that plush… so any I bought would arguably be a fair bit better. But still comes with the same problem of being hellishly uncomfortable.

Was nice uphill, nice traction. But that was as good as it got.

I was very much debating that Parkwood, however, I’ve now removed all HT thoughts for my ‘winter’/Training bike ..

No, I’m not trolling… I really wanted to enjoy his…but.. HTs are… well.. a bit like driving a car with the wrong size wheels, springs dropped 40mm and ridiculously low profile tyres.

No, I’m not trolling…

He says, from under a bridge, with a mouth full of billy goat…

😆

Honestly… I’ve been debating a new HT for the local XC stuff for a while now, just moving house so not pulled the plug yet.

I was slightly concerned a few weeks ago listening to a mates reaction on a local XC ride of “ooh, ahh.. eeek”… But put that down to him being a bit of a girls blouse.

Could it be that other people are better riders and fitter and enjoy the directness and challenge of a Ht?

Different bike in different ride shocker!

I love my FS for the ‘bigger’ stuff, but once riding the ht on local trails,I can see the FS not really getting used that much now…

I’m not saying either of us is right or wrong…just that one of there joys of biking/bikes is that a trail you are ‘used to’ becomes a different beast on another bike….try riding local on stuff on a CX bike to see what I mean!

DrP

tomd – Member

Could it be that other people are better riders and fitter and enjoy the directness and challenge of a Ht?

I’m sure that some are, however based upon my riding, it’s certainly not all of them. I’m reasonably fit (in a relative context) and not a terrible rider by any means.

Challenge ? WTF, it’s supposed to be enjoyment isn’t it ? I accepted when I was XC racing there’s a challenge, hence having a light 29er HT at that time, but really, ‘directness’ what on earth is that all about ? Let me guess ‘feeling the trail’ yeah ? Why do I want to feel the trail, I can see the rocks and roots, doesn’t mean I want to be mullered by them every yard I ride

try riding local on stuff on a CX bike to see what I mean!

It’s likely to be my plan mate, although how much trails i’ll do I’m not yet sure, but there’s a CAAD in PAulsCycles for not too much money and I still want a winter trainer bike, as I say, I assumed it would be a HT, but I will more than likely get a nice CX bike which then means i’ll be able to do the odd commute on it a little easier.

I’ve just built up a new hardtail (joins the 160mm 26″ FS, 26″ rigid and 29″ rigid) and I’m kind of in a different position. Not exactly why FS but certainly enjoying more a lot of the trails which recently have felt a little dull or given my shoulders and wrists too much of a hammering!

On some trails a full sus just makes it all a bit dull, sit down and pedal then rinse and repeat. Hardtail or rigid improves your fitness and skills a bit more, not ridden suspension of any sort for about a year now, Fatty it’s the future.

On some trails a full sus just makes it all a bit dull, sit down and pedal then rinse and repeat

I can see that, but surely you then ride them trails harder and faster ? you jump off/over more stuff, find harder stuff on the particular trails to challenge yourself ?

I’m not sure how it improves your riding though, sure, it makes you think more, makes you pick lines differently and arguably requires more of your attention to details.. but not sure how that makes you ‘better’ as such in all honesty.

If you were faster than riding your mates hardtail than he was on your fs bike? That’s one reason hardtails are so much fun.

I tend to take the view ‘it’s all bikes’ and ride whichever one I feel like on any given day.

I have as much fun and enjoyment riding my rigid singlespeed as I do my 140mm FS. There’s certainly more challenge with the former, particularly on trails I know well.

People ride for all sorts of reasons, if you’ve found your ‘the one’ bike that’s great but diversity of choice is good too.

If you were faster than riding your mates hardtail than he was on your fs bike? That’s one reason hardtails are so much fun

I was slightly quicker against my comparable mate when I was on the FS, but a lot of that would be that I’m more used to and more at home on my own bike. But, overall the difference wasn’t massive in terms of outright speed. But on the LAbrinyth I was deffo a chunk slower on the HT.

The bloke who’s HT I was on is fairly new to the sport, so doesn’t really come into the equation of me being faster than.

Pretty much the exact opposite happened to me yesterday. Went out with 3 others and I took my FS and they were all on HTs. After about an hour I was just wishing I’d bought my HT instead. I can’t really say why, the FS was fine but I missed the HT.

I do, however, have n+1 coursing through my veins!

Hard tails are cheaper, require less maintenance, are lighter and more direct – perhaps for some people and the type of riding they do, that’s reason enough?

rudedog – Member

Hard tails are cheaper, require less maintenance, are lighter and more direct – perhaps for some people and the type of riding they do, that’s reason enough?

Yes, yes, yes, yes… I dunno. I’m only basing this on my personal experience, I can’t really comment for everyone elses experience. Was just some random observations after a day out riding.

The most fun I have had at Swinley was on a 29er hardtail singlespeed, perfect venue for that.

“But still comes with the same problem of being hellishly uncomfortable.”

your riding the wrong hardtail AND your doing it wrong..

Yes, yes, yes, yes… I dunno. I’m only basing this on my personal experience, I can’t really comment for everyone elses experience. Was just some random observations after a day out riding.

Exactly – youve found that a full suss is the right bike for you – however, other people are different…

Yawn
As has already been said to death – different bikes for different needs.

For me – full suss if for when the emphasis is on superb, gnarly DH oriented stuff… where winching to the top is all that’s required in terms of peddling and the fun is when you point the bike downwards (i.e Stile Cop yesterday)

Lightweight hard tail for my local trails where there is a bit less tech and more distance to cover. Here the emphasis is on chilling, fitness etc. Even more so when I decide to ride to the trails instead of driving.

Sounds like the OP is a few bikes short

Get yourself an electric bike for Swinley. Then you don’t even have to bother to pedal.

It’s all about fun and comfort,

I’ve ridden nothing but HTs some are more comfy than others, but its all relative
I guess, if your normal ride is a FS I could imagine that any HT is going to be a wake up.

Hard tails are for folk on benefits !!!

But what sized wheels were on your mates bike OP? 🙂

Swinley on a FS bike? 😆
Swinley is so groomed! I love riding a HT there because it’s all so smooth. I think it’s a lot more fun than an FS bike because you can pump, jump, manual more etc. Unless its a short travel XC FS bike it’s overkill. Why ride a sofa on trails no more rough than a canal path?

Hard tails are for folk on benefits !!!

You are clearly unaware of the generous nature of the UK benefit system.

Am I missing something? How are you saving £1000+? If you were planning on purchasing a ht and you’re now not cos yer mates £500 was crap then I would suggest riding a lightweight, 120mm+, dropper equipped ht like a soul, hummer etc and then re assess.

Oh, and what trail rat said

I moved from hardtail to FS and swore I’d never go back but recently swapped to hardtail while getting the FS serviced and must say I’ve enjoyed the directness of the power delivery and for trail centers it’s not made a difference to my enjoyment at all.

Bigger rides the comfort of the FS does help but you just have to learn to ride the HT slightly differently and spend a little more time off the saddle.

Every time I ride my single speed rigid bike on my local trails I think “this is the perfect bike for this”. Every time I ride the same trails on my full susser I think “this bike is even more perfect” 😆

I think perhaps the biggest HT advantage is simply one of “spec per £” and “lb per £”! I.e. a 1000 quid HT is light, and has nice bits on it. An equivalently priced FS bike isn’t either of those things…..

I also like the simplicity of my HT, especially in winter, when riding in 3 foot of gloop. No linkages or shocks or what ever to worry about. Get on, pedal. Job done 😉

I’m having a similar internal discussion, but coming from the other direction.

I’ve got a (26″) Five. It’s versatile, comfortable and fun. But I built up an FF29 in order to do an event that had a bit of gently (mostly uphill) trails and lots of road riding. While the FF29 was perfect for the event, for general trail riding I was coming to the same conclusion as the OP. I could ride anything that I rode on the Five on the FF29, but why would I?

Then I saw a Solaris frame going second hand so decided to give that a go. To be honest I expected to just end up with a slightly heavier, less efficient version of the FF29 and that would be the end of my HT experiment. In fact, it’s totally different and I’ve been amazed at just how capable and fun it is. OK, I’ve only ridden it 7 times so far, for a total of 12 hours, so it could just be a honeymoon effect, but I’m starting to wonder whether there is any point to the Five. OK, it is probably capable of bigger stuff than the Solaris, but that’s stuff that I’ll never have the nerve to do anyway.

I’ll end with a gratuitous shot of the Solaris up on Corriehabbie at the weekend. I picked this ride to try and show up some of the weaknesses of the Solaris, as there is lots of pedalling over lumpy ground, where I expected to miss the full suss, but really didn’t.

I guess it just goes to show (as others have said) that there are HTs and there are HTs.

The HT had good traction up hill

The one thing that my FS does better than any rigid or HT I’ve owned is climb. The steeper and looser the greater the benefit of FS

Challenge ? WTF, it’s supposed to be enjoyment isn’t it ?

Some people actually enjoy a challenge 🙂

For about two years I rode a Meta 5 for everything, and then last summer I built an On One Inbred up. Rigid, Singlespeed (initially), 29er. I’d had a hard tail before the Meta, but had forgotten what it was like riding one. To be honest, I was so new to the world of mountain bikes when I got the Meta that it was probably subbing-out my skills more than anything.

The on-one is silly fast compared to the Meta in the flat and climbs. Initially, it hurt my wrists riding it hard, but this has eased as my skill as improved. I have a tendency to forget I’m riding that and not my old Meta when I hit descents, despite there Meta bing stolen last November. The result is I’m actually pretty bloody fast on the descents on it now too, faster than the Meta even.

What I’m trying to say (I think) is over the last few years I’ve realised the bike only plays a small part in the overall picture. It’s more the rider than the bike, but the most important thing is bike fit. Not just in terms of all day comfort, but in terms of being able to distribute your weight properly over the bike.

After this experience, I can honestly say that I can’t see myself going back to full-suss in the foreseeable future. A hardcore-hardtail is on my radar though.

Then I saw a Solaris frame going second hand so decided to give that a go. To be honest I expected to just end up with a slightly heavier, less efficient version of the FF29 and that would be the end of my HT experiment. In fact, it’s totally different and I’ve been amazed at just how capable and fun it is. OK, I’ve only ridden it 7 times so far, for a total of 12 hours, so it could just be a honeymoon effect, but I’m starting to wonder whether there is any point to the Five. OK, it is probably capable of bigger stuff than the Solaris, but that’s stuff that I’ll never have the nerve to do anyway.

This is another reason why I probably won’t ever go back to a full-suss, too. Steel hard-tails for me now, I think.

The cost and hassle of owning a full-suss dissuade me from ever buying one. I can own, maintain and ride a really good hardtail for a lot less than an equivalent specced full-suss. I can ride pretty much anything but world cup style downhill runs (though I’d probably manage most of it bar the huge rock gardens and massive jumps/gaps). Having started mountain biking on fully rigid bikes with cantilever brakes and ludicrous geometry, my slack(ish) 29er with 120mm of travel and big 2.35″ tyres is incredibly plush.

Then I saw a Solaris frame going second hand so decided to give that a go. To be honest I expected to just end up with a slightly heavier, less efficient version of the FF29 and that would be the end of my HT experiment. In fact, it’s totally different and I’ve been amazed at just how capable and fun it is.

Same here. I bought a Solaris last autumn with the aim of preserving my Ibis Mojo from the worst of a Peak District winter. I haven’t ridden the mojo since, and I’m not sure when I will again.

Also on the point of HT vs FS, I’ve always found everything perfectly rideable on either, it’s a just a case of the FS being faster and requiring less thought/concentration. Personally my favourite type of riding is picking my way down steep techy terrain and I find a HT much more fun for that. But if going fast in a straight line is your aim then a FS is obviously the better option.

I always seem to get trail focused full sus, they’ve been great on loose uphills, but never a patch on standing on the front end of a hardtail sprinting. I did ride an Epic and really like the efficient feeling stood up, it’s a lot of money and extra weight to blow on such a fairly minor change though.

Fully rigid with bigger tyres was my favourite, got used to riding everything I ride now on my full sus. Really need to build that bike up again 🙁

Dunno, I’m back on a hardtail for now and I love it but can’t wait to get back on a fs still. Love being able to have the confidence to smash the **** out of everything on a fs.

sold my FS (Devinci Dixon) in 2012, bought a 29’er hardtail and not missed the FS since?

(owned about 20 different FS bikes from 2002-2012)

Its about getting the right bike for your riding needs, simple as that really?

This is my current ride, its very quick and light, yet surprisingly comfortable considering its only a hardtail

certainly a much easier bike to own during wet weather with minimal maintenance required

most important? Its actually fun to ride where my FS bikes blunted the trails and made everything too easy

It’s not always about the bike.
How many riders do you see that can’t ride light ?
FS or HT ,some people just ride like a sack of spuds. 😉