Roits in Manchester?

@binners we can’t pass comment on what we haven’t seen. Currently there is no video showing what caused the officers to need hospital treatment.

We have seen a video of a man lying prone, not resisting arrest, being kicked in the face and being stamped on.

We have seen the video with the man recording what was happening, we have seen the police officer pepper spray him from very close range, then two police officers take him down.

I personally think that it is ok to pass judgement on what we have seen.

What we have read from the GMP does not equate to what has been seen. We absolutely should be questioning the validity of their statements. It’s just as safe to assume that the person lying on the floor was already restrained, complying with the instructions, and was theen booted in the face. Maybe the officer was trying to remove the Ferrero Roche from the persons mouth?

I am detecting a hint of sarcasm in Binners’ post

Fairy nuff. I am glad that as a good Catholic boy he trusts his parish priest.  I wonder which of the sermons he has listened to he believes the most?

It was the lumping of GPs and parish priests together what threw me and caused me to miss the sarcasm

The GMP are second only to the Met in their casual disregard of standards of honesty and probity. At times their combined attitude to being as shitty an organisation as they can possibly be by comparison amounts to “Hold my pint”

Public perception in that video is undeniably poor

I listened to the solicitor demanding “arrests” last night. Nothing that I saw would pass the necessity test that couldn’t at this stage be dealt with by removal from duties in some form or another; I wasn’t impressed by him either

A major UK airport is the world’s worst place for anyone to do something stupid, with CCTV and mobile phones everywhere, so we’re either suspicious or fired up when a limited selection of video is released, notably by one side in this

Andy Burnham’s comments were interesting, “fast-moving and complicated” and not “clear cut”

Summer is riot season, the people of Greater Manchester will suffer far more from those than from this one incident, especially as other groups will be just waiting to counter-demonstrate

The best thing that can happen is for the media furore to die down ASAP and allow a proper investigation to take place.

Akhmed Yakoob is a thoroughly unpleasant grifter.

A bit of context

Do they have less issues in germany where the polizei seem to ask questions later , they also seem to have a penchant for water cannoning and teargassing mobs who turn up and try to get their mates out of the nick by intimidatory gatherings also

I have just seen another two and a half minute video of the arrests and imo it was fairly distressing, especially the mother watching it all and not knowing what to do with another family member telling her not to get involved.

I knew it was claimed that the uncle of the two arrested is a serving police officer but apparently a third brother of the two brothers is also a serving police officer, so not a family which you would expect to be hostile towards the police.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/26/manchester-airport-arrest-family-second-night-protests

Fahir’s solicitor, Akhmed Yakoob, said on Friday that the teenager had been referred to a neurologist after a CT scan showed a cyst on his brain.

Asked by the Guardian whether he believed the alleged brain injury was linked to the incident, he said: “That is something a medical professional would have to answer but as far as I know I’ve spoken to the consultant and they’re saying it could be related to the injuries at the airport.”

we can’t pass comment on what we haven’t seen. Currently there is no video showing what caused the officers to need hospital treatment.

@w00dster – that was my point. We’ve seen a snippet of what is no doubt a longer video which has just been put out via social media with no context of the bigger picture

I’m sure theres plenty of other video footage from whatever happened earlier, from CCTV, body worn cameras etc, but GMP have to follow legal procedures and don’t have the luxury of just chucking selective, out-of-context  stuff onto Twiter and Tik Tok. Thankfully.

So I’m personally reserveing judgement until I’ve seen the evidence from both sides. Obviousy in no way am I excusing the brutality of the police officer which is absolutely horrendous, but its going to be very interesting to see what led up to that, which I’m sure we’ll get in due course

I listened to the solicitor demanding “arrests” last night. Nothing that I saw would pass the necessity test that couldn’t at this stage be dealt with by removal from duties in some form or another; I wasn’t impressed by him either

I sort of agree, but only because there’s a nuance between questioning someone (which one way or another will have happened) and arresting someone which starts the clock for either releasing them or charging them, which could make things worse.

If that had been anyone other than a police officer in any other workplace, and witnessed by the police would you have expected them to be ‘well, his boss will look into it and let us know’.

Andy Burnham’s comments were interesting, “fast-moving and complicated” and not “clear cut”

That doesn’t instill confidence, the event has already happened. The only* things that change now are peoples post-hoc rationalizations.

I’m not sure why either The Guardian or anybody else is treating that solicitor as a credible source of information.

Andy Burnham’s comments were interesting, “fast-moving and complicated” and not “clear cut”

That doesn’t instill confidence, the event has already happened. The only* things that change now are peoples post-hoc rationalizations.

I’m guessing Andy Burnham, with having ultimate oversight over GMP,  knows far more about the situation than we do – as we’ve presently only seen the ‘evidence’ from one side – so his comments are based on that

I’m not sure why either The Guardian or anybody else is treating that solicitor as a credible source of information.

Indeed. I’d be viewing anything he has to say with deep suspicion. His little social media campaign seemed to be fully prepared and all up and running by the time the first video came out, which is very dubious in itself.

I’m not a legal expert, but I suspect that reputable legal representatives don’t generally conduct their initial business via Tik Tok

That doesn’t explain why the Guardian are treating him as a credible source of information

If the family have instructed him, I assume he’s the point of contact for the media and there won’t BE anyone else for them to speak to to get their side.

Edit – Given the tensions around the story and his status as a qualified and acting solicitor, I would imagine forvlegal reasons they’d be reluctant to append any quotes with “Mind you, we don’t fully trust him”.

That doesn’t explain why the Guardian are treating him as a credible source of information

I’ve just read the Guardian article and they’re simply quoting what he said in an interview with Radio 4, which as their acting solicitor isn’t something unusual to do.

They’re simply reporting what he said, not passing judgement on whether its credible or not. People can make their own minds up about that

Yeah that’s how I read it too. Wasn’t really sure why the Guardian was being criticised. I actually thought it was quite a good article, which is why I posted a link to it

Edit : To be fair the Guardian also asked him directly a question which they quoted both the question and the answer, they weren’t simply reporting other interviews he had given

Listening to Times radio the sequence of events appears to be

A lady is accusing a fellow passenger racist comments on the flight and deliberately bashing her with a trolley in baggage reclaim. She has then identified the passenger to her sons once she cleared border control. Sometime between that point and when the published video starts the must have been some form of incident that has ended up with the 3 injured officers.

A former armed officer was being interviewed about it. He was interesting listening explaining how you are trained to control the situation and to protect your firearms at almost any cost to stop an attacker getting hold of them and the risk they use them. He also explained how the radio automatically opens up all communications to and from all officers so you hav3 that agoing into your ear as well as what your actually hearing yourself

I would be interested to know why the lady didn’t speak to the police or the airline staff about her allegations and why her sons decided it was for them to go and sort it out. Perhaps that will become clearer as the investigation continues

I sort of agree, but only because there’s a nuance between questioning someone (which one way or another will have happened) and arresting someone which starts the clock for either releasing them or charging them, which could make things worse.

The far greater point for me, hence my comments about demonstrations etc, is that arrest(s) isn’t likely at this stage. You’d expect a solicitor to understand that, however, he’s demanded arrests

When that doesn’t happen you’ll see an understandable reaction amongst the public and he’ll be at the heart of it.

<cynic>He’ll also be nicely positioned to pick up more clients</cynic>

I would be interested to know why the lady didn’t speak to the police or the airline staff about her allegations

I think the incident itself may offer some insight as to why people may be reluctant to speak to the police.

I would be interested to know why the lady didn’t speak to the police or the airline staff about her allegations and why her sons decided it was for them to go and sort it out. Perhaps that will become clearer as the investigation continues

If the trolley ramming incident took place the first persons she would presumably have seen would have been her two sons. And is there any evidence they wanted to sort it out and pursue it? They claim there was a bit of altercation after which as they were walking away they were set upon by the police.

The truth is that at this point no one knows the back story. What appears to be certain though is that a police officer kicked someone in the face, I don’t think anyone is disputing that

The truth is that at this point no one knows the back story. What appears to be certain though is that a police officer kicked someone in the face, I don’t think anyone is disputing that

And that someone attacked armed police officers to the point that 3 were taken to hospital and one has a broken nose

I knew it was claimed that the uncle of the two arrested is a serving police officer but apparently a third brother of the two brothers is also a serving police officer, so not a family which you would expect to be hostile towards the police.

I can assure you that familial connections are no predictor of hostility towards police

And that someone attacked armed police officers to the point that 3 were taken to hospital and one has a broken nose

Not, it seems likely, the one who got kicked in the head.

And that someone attacked armed police officers to the point that 3 were taken to hospital and one has a broken nose

How do we know that for certain? I know that a police officer kicked someone in the face because I have seen the video, no one seems to be doubting its authenticity. I haven’t seen any videos of someone attacking three police officers.

I would expect an airport with armed police permanently present and extremely high security to be completely covered by CCTV, I would expect everything to have been recorded, including the alleged trolley ramming incident

I am sure that the truth will emerge, at least I hope so. We just need to be patient

I can assure you that familial connections are no predictor of hostility towards police

Which is why I used the word “expect”

If the true the third brother being a copper does make the two other brothers hostility towards the police seem unlikely

Which is why I used the word “expect”

I’m not having a go, Ernst, I’m giving you the benefit of 40+ years experience. And in other families, rather than my own 🙂

It does leave me very wobbled headed. Armed response officers must be just about the highest trained officers there are. Combine that with having enough about them to appreciate their were in just about the most witnessed and videoed location imaginable, to have that loss of control is pretty hard to fathom. Even if you had just witnessed a colleague getting seriously injured you’d think you could hold it together and would have been trained to hold it together and not give out a reprisal punishment. I could sort of understand it more if the guy was still free and an excessive use of force than was the clinical theoretical minimum was used ‘in the heat of the moment’. But not when he was already restrained.

Further footage and witness statements etc are going to give context and maybe explain how everyone involved got as heated as they clearly did (it takes a heated person to injure police officers and no right thinking officer would do what that one did) but it’s not going to excuse their behaviour. It’s never going to make that video better.

I’m sure it was reported yesterday that this all kicked off after a fight between members of the public in which the police were not involved, they were called as a result of that. What Chrismac has posted corroborates that.

Looks like the lady had a some sort of poor interaction with another passenger, told her sons about who then decided to sort out the other passenger Police were called, son’s escalated the situation and attacked the officers. Police rarely goes boots in first, particularly not somewhere like Manchester airport. Looks like the selective video is from the end of of an extended incident caused and escalated by the people on the floor. Doesn’t excuse the brutality of the police office but does explain the tension by that point. Far from being innocent victims in this the people arrested are the main cause of all this.

The police officer made a serious error of judgement which is now being used to over shadow the horrendous behaviour of the originators of all this. This is now being jumped on by the police haters, dodgy lawyers and racists from Rochdale (it’s a very divided community) to grand stand and undermine the police further.

I would expect an airport with armed police permanently present and extremely high security to be completely covered by CCTV, I would expect everything to have been recorded, including the alleged trolley ramming incident

And as Binners pointed out due to all sorts of good regulation that can’t be released to social media on a whim. Andy Burnham has seen this video footage and is clearly conflicted by it or I’m sure he would have condemned the policy more openly.

If the true the third brother being a copper does make the two other brothers hostility towards the police seem unlikely

You really don’t understand family dynamics do you. It’s not unusual for a family member to be ostracised for joining the police.

I am sure that the truth will emerge, at least I hope so. We just need to be patient

this I do agree with.

I could sort of understand it more if the guy was still free

He actually was, he was lying on the floor when he was kicked but if you watch the video properly he was not restrained, after being kicked he moves both his arms and legs away from his body.

You really don’t understand family dynamics do you. It’s not unusual for a family member to be ostracised for joining the police.

I would say that it is unusual for a family member to be ostracised for joining the police, which is obviously the point I was making. An uncle also appears to be a serving police officer.

Apart from apparently understanding family dynamics better than me what makes you confident that it is reasonably common for someone to be ostracised by their family for joining the police?

In my very limited experience of four friends who joined the police none of them were ostracised by their families. In fact one joined the police because his younger brother had.

Far from being innocent victims in this the people arrested are the main cause of all this.

Whilst I agree they’re not innocent victims, I can’t accept that they are the main cause of this instance of police brutality. That lies with the mindset and lack of control of the officer in question, IMHO.

Whilst I agree they’re not innocent victims,

Weren’t they released without charge?

Looks like the selective video is from the end of of an extended incident caused and escalated by the people on the floor.

I don’t know how many times it needs to be pointed out that the two in the video (one kicked in the head, one starts on the bench thrn kicked to the ground) were released without charge. I understand four other people remain under arrest – again, not to pre-judge but it seems likely to me that those are the ones involved in fisticuffs with the police.

Whilst I agree they’re not innocent victims, I can’t accept that they are the main cause of this instance of police brutality. That lies with the mindset and lack of control of the officer in question, IMHO.

This. As a civilian, you break my mates nose and I’m going to stuff you in a wheelie bin, and to **** with the law and consequences.

As a uniformed professional, there are rules that govern the use of force and that force has to be justified. As I said earlier if whilst in the process of trying to allegedly remove a firearm from an officer he’d been booted in the grid, I’d not be too concerned.

This was not that. This was an overreach from an individual trained and empowered by law to use violence of action in the lawful conduct of his duties. Dude lost his composure and escalated to a level that was disproportionate to the threat. Very doubtful further video will change that.

I’ve spoken to three friends now who are armed officers and all are deeply uncomfortable with the level of force used in that snippet.

Criminal investigation of the copper inbound. Couldn’t be any other way, really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c19ky4z8kjmo

I wonder which of the sermons he has listened to he believes the most?

Have to admit im not too clued up with this kind of thing, but isnt there something about lion down with a lamb kebab

I liked the one about the cheesemakers too

Despite being a (very lapsed) catholic, I was lucky enough never to have experienced  the choirboys lament

https://x.com/RedCollectiveUK/status/1816410012463341808

That ^^ really doesn’t look good.

I wish GMP would release the names of the 4 who were arrested and released on bail. I am seeing shite on social media suggesting that those two brothers (one of which got kicked in the face) assaulted coppers and broke the nose of one.

Since presumably after perusing through all the airport CCTV and police body cams both brothers were released by the police without charges we can safely say that there is no compelling evidence that they assaulted anyone.

^you can’t be kicking off like that in an airport though, (the passengers, I mean) I’m not suggesting the kicking in the head incident is reasonable, but as more footage emerges, the more I’m inclined to think teh situation is not quite as cut and dry as police brutality.

But we still don’t know the whole picture, So I think Andy Burnham is correct in what he says ““fast-moving and complicated” and not “clear cut””.

https://x.com/RedCollectiveUK/status/1816410012463341808

That ^^ really doesn’t look good.

All I’m getting from that clip is a bunch of knob heads kicking off, in an airport, in front of armed police. That’s only going to end one way, and correctly so, they are liucky they didn’t get shot, IMO.