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Roits in Manchester?
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1BruceWeeFree Member
So there are lessons to be learned from this for the police… don’t take chances, and go in harder next time.
I’m curious as to what you see going in harder looking like?
From what I saw, we had the police officer go for the arms of the suspect, presumably to put the handcuffs on. That doesn’t work so he immediately goes for a headlock. That actually seems to be less effective than going for the arms and he’s left innefectually hanging off the guys neck. By this time big brother (who up until this point has been getting completely ignored by everyone) comes round to try to untangle the ineffective headlock. Police officer then releases little brother so he can take a swing at big brother (yes, he was the first one out of everyone present to throw a punch). He then gets several punches in return and the first thing he actually manages is to get his tazer out and get some control of the situation. Until little brother hits him from behind. Police officer number 4 then tazers the Tasmanian devil and the police officer who failed to control the arms, failed to get a headlock, and failed to punch the big brother out gets his second win of the day by putting boot to head.
Like I said, what would going in harder have looked like?
1e-machineFree MemberIts just a shame this whole incident was used as a racist attack by Police on innocent young Asians picking their mother up from the airport.
A few years ago in Glasgow the Police came under attack in the airport and the public came to the defence of the Police. John Smeaton and others were called hero
s for
trying to get the boot into the attackers and
banjoing` one of them.Back then Glasgow airport was used to show how
we
come together when attacked by violent people. Its a real shame how racism was used in this incident, when the reality was it was just two very violent young men with no respect for the norms of civilised society .. attacking other passengers/Police/women.crazy-legsFull MemberLike I said, what would going in harder have looked like?
Draw gun, shoot violent ****(s) in the head.
Ideally 2 or 3 times.I reckon that’d count as “going in harder”
ernielynchFull MemberWell their solicitor seems to think that there is more to this story than most people think, otherwise I can’t see why he would be so keen to pursue it.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/family-man-stamped-cop-manchester-33378624
Since context is everything and already my personal opinion at what probably happened has changed a tad since the story broke I guess that keeping an open mind wouldn’t be a bad thing.
mattyfezFull MemberThat’s fair enough.. at least the solicitor this time is wearing a suit rather than a gym-membership T-shirt.
6binnersFull MemberThe family have now demanded to know “on what legal basis” the video should be shown to a politician before they were given an opportunity to see it
That takes some front, to be saying the other party – in this case the mayor of Manchester, who is ultimately in charge of the police in Manchester – has questions to answer about who saw what video and when? After they went public to literally kick this off, with their somewhat selectively edited video footage
And this…
“As for leaking of CCTV, we understand that will also form part of their investigation, but whilst it may be blatantly obvious who would benefit from such a cynical and partial leak, proving who the individual or ‘institution’ is likely to be impossible.
You’re well into taking the piss territory with that statement. I don’t know how they’ve got the nerve to be referring to ‘cynical and partial’ footage,
That new layer might wear not be sporting a pair of sunglasses and a shiny suit, but he’s clearly just as much of a chancer as the last one
3BruceWeeFree MemberYou really really seem to hate these guys. And anyone who dares to represent them.
You’d think we’d have learned that it’s a good idea to wait until all the information is available before judging but you seem very keen to bring back hanging for this case.
Personally I’m going to wait a bit, if you don’t mind. Like I said earlier, I’ve got a lot of questions about how this arrest was carried out. I’m struggling to believe that’s how police who are carrying guns generally wade into an arrest. Why did this one make such a cock up of it?
Not to mention the police’s actions after the big punch up and tazering.
But yeah, you seem to have made up your mind but do you mind if the rest of us wait and see? I’m not sure, when dealing with GMP, leaping to conclusions based on the footage they’ve chosen to leak is a good idea.
In other and I’m sure completely unrelated news:
2binnersFull MemberYou really really seem to hate these guys. And anyone who dares to represent them.
Not at all. They seem like really lovely, charming young men.
As for their first lawyer – who’s social media campaign was off the ground before the female officer they’d punched in the face had chance to wipe the blood from her broken nose – he seems like a fine, upstanding pillar of the legal profession.
In other and I’m sure completely unrelated news:
…. some whataboutery?
4BruceWeeFree MemberWell, their new lawyer is a well respected human rights lawyer and not what anyone would describe as a chancery.
If the fact that two women (who also happen to be police officers) got punched in the face is clouding your judgement and making you go a bit daily mail comments section then that’s one thing.
If I were you I’d be careful about what I said and about who in this particular thread. Otherwise people might get the wrong idea.
I
2timbaFree MemberIn other and I’m sure completely unrelated news:
Police are recruited from society. Society has racists and some will join the police, who at some point will be exposed and dealt with. I’m encouraged by that
1fenderextenderFree MemberPresumably everyone is aware that solicitors usually get paid no matter what the outcome…
And even if it is ‘no win, no fee’, the publicity helps hugely too.
3coconutFree Memberclearly trying to find any angle to exploit, to stop the two pond life lads going to prison for a long time. If new lawyer can muddy the waters enough to reach some kind of deal then they will see that as a success. There was nothing “Cynical” about leaking the additional CCTV, it’s factual footage and exactly where they started from too. The “leaked” additional footage probably stopped riots developing in several UK cities.
2imnotverygoodFull MemberWell, their new lawyer is a well respected human rights lawyer and not what anyone would describe as a chancery.
He may be a well respected human rights lawyer, but he’s never off the news up in Scotland. He clearly recognises the value of publicity.
4argeeFull MemberIf this had been two of the EDL guys in Stockport do you think a few on here would be defending them so hard and querying everythin the police did so much?
4bensalesFree MemberParty A is claiming Party B breached his human rights by kicking him in the head.
Only after Party A had breached Party B’s and Party C’s human rights by punching them repeatedly in the face. Also after Party A has violently assaulted Party Unknown in Starbucks.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Party A made his bed, and he should have the balls to lie in it.
2ernielynchFull MemberAlso after Party A has violently assaulted Party Unknown in Starbucks.
Surely if nothing else this case has highlighted the importance of not coming to conclusions without knowing all the facts?
Where is your evidence concerning who violently assaulted who in Starbucks? And as far as I am aware the other party are not “unknown”. It would appear that they were arrested and released on police bail, which suggests a possible level culpability.
Seriously, haven’t recent events at Manchester airport and Southport emphasised that we should be aware of all the facts before deciding who is guilty?
1BruceWeeFree MemberI honestly think the sight of two white women (who also happen to be police officers) getting punched viciously by an Asian man is messing with people’s heads and some people are saying things they wouldn’t normally say.
It’s understandable because it’s one of those things that is going to trigger an instinctive reaction that most people aren’t used to but I think it’s worth thinking very carefully about what we’re feeling and then taking a step back and examining those feelings.
Anyone who says they aren’t racist is either lying or simply hasn’t spent enough time questioning their own reactions. I have plenty instinctive racist reactions, including to this incident, but I always try to take a step back and examine my feelings before jumping in.
I understand what I just said is really going to piss people off but I think it needed saying.
I absolutely understand that being a police officer is an incredibly tough job with incredible pressure to get everything right. However, I can also imagine that being Asian in a city where the police force has been described as institutionally racist also can’t be particularly easy.
I think a bit of patience and understanding all round is needed until the complete story comes out. Until then, I really think this thread should be closed because there’s a real risk of some people saying things they wouldn’t normally say and regreting it.
argeeFull MemberI honestly think the sight of two white women (who also happen to be police officers) getting punched viciously by an Asian man is messing with people’s heads and some people are saying things they wouldn’t normally say.
They were on duty, police officers who happen to be ‘white women’, i think people are reacting to the level of violence straight off the bat with this incident, the police go and try to arrest the man at the machine, within 3 seconds the second man is throwing full blooded punches at everyone, people seem to be ignoring this fact, you have someone who has so much disregard for the law they’re doing that even though they weren’t the ones being arrested.
2roadworrierFull MemberI honestly think the sight of two white women (who also happen to be police officers) getting punched viciously by an Asian man is messing with people’s heads and some people are saying things they wouldn’t normally say.
I don’t think it’s (just) this.
There is a completely non-racial issue of people breaking the law and then demanding (and gaining) protection from it.
We’re lucky that we live in a society where all are protected by the law, and as we see in this case that includes the police who will be held to account for their actions. The difficulty is that the many criminals frequently and regularly break the law but are not held to account for all their actions.
That creates a very deep reaction in people who believe strongly in justice and I wouldn’t want to confuse that reaction with racism.
6binnersFull MemberI’m sorry, but my opinion of somebody who’s reaction to being arrested is to start throwing haymakers into the faces of the police, including female officers, is going to be exactly the same irrespective of their colour. Its a total irrelevence.
They’re exactly the same as the EDL idiots throwing bricks at the police, in my opinion. Just violent thugs, with a complete disrespect for the law. Colour doesn’t come into it.
In fact the only reason racism, real or imagined, is an issue at all is because an oily lawyer tried to make it an issue by presenting a completely disingenous and heavily loaded set of ‘facts’ in the form of a very selelectively editted video to deliberatly provoke exactly the reaction it got
timbaFree MemberI can also imagine that being Asian in a city where the police force has been described as institutionally racist also can’t be particularly easy
There is racism in GMP, I don’t think that’s denied because it exists in society. Institutional racism is another thing all together and its eradication in policing has been worked on since the 1981 report by Lord Scarman.
In the 21st century, schools are more likely to show institutional racism in relation to, for example, dress codes and hairstyle policies, than policing
doomanicFull MemberIf this had been two of the EDL guys in Stockport do you think a few on here would be defending them so hard and querying everythin the police did so much?
Of course not. In fact, one forumite posted some “heavy handed” policing of one of Yaxley-Lennon’s supporters being mobbed because he found it amusing…
2BruceWeeFree MemberInstitutional racism is another thing all together and its eradication in policing has been worked on since the 1981 report by Lord Scarman.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-67542596
There’s this. Then there’s the recent suspensions due to racism in the GMP. This could be a sign that they are tackling the problem but it isn’t a sign that they have fixed the problem.
I’m not sure if a bunch of white middle class people judging the reactions of young Asian people who have grown up being ‘policed’ by the GMP is a good look. Neither is claiming to know race has nothing to do with it.
At this time we know very little.
argeeFull MemberI’m not sure if a bunch of white middle class people judging the reactions of young Asian people who have grown up being ‘policed’ by the GMP is a good look. Neither is claiming to know race has nothing to do with it.
You’re now making huge assumptions on how they’ve grown up and the society around them, the initial attack on the police, who were in uniform and clearly police, was an offensive attack by a third party to the arrest, this wasn’t a defensive attack, it wasn’t fight or flight, it was an individual attacking police officers without warning, then the first suspect did the same the instant his brother got involved.
BruceWeeFree MemberAnd by the way, if you watch the video, the first person to throw a punch was the male police officer.
Or at least that’s what it looks like to me.
But I’ll wait until I see everything before jumping to conclusions.
CaherFull MemberI’m sorry, but my opinion of somebody who’s reaction to being arrested is to start throwing haymakers into the faces of the police, including female officers, is going to be exactly the same irrespective of their colour. Its a total irrelevence.
Probably worthy of another thread of its own but has anyone on here been arrested by the Police? Me and my mates were when we were young, for fighting with another bunch of lads when we were about 19. We were pretty far away from thinking about fighting the police, we were just terrified what our dads would say. Let out in the morning with no charge.
3ernielynchFull MemberIn fact, one forumite posted some “heavy handed” policing of one of Yaxley-Lennon’s supporters being mobbed because he found it amusing…
That was me. Although satisfying rather than amusing is how I would describe it.
I did find the dopey geezer taunting the police before being hit with bricks in the chest, back of the head, and bollocks, highly amusing though. In fact hilarious!
1roadworrierFull Memberjudging the reactions
No, it is never acceptable to react to a situation with physical violence, in almost any context.
It’s also never acceptable to be racist.
Both are true and both equally required to maintain a civilised society.
If you think it is OK to throw punches then you’re going to struggle to be accepted into society and why there are prison sentences for violent behaviour. Objecting to that violent behaviour has nothing to do with race.
doomanicFull MemberHow do you know he was deserving of such treatment? You don’t, you just assumed he was…
BruceWeeFree MemberNo, it is never acceptable to react to a situation with physical violence, in almost any context.
So because the police officer was the first to throw a punch he should be the one in prison?
Again, what it looks like to me from the video.
But maybe we should wait for the whole story?
ernielynchFull MemberHow do you know he was deserving of such treatment? You don’t, you just assumed he was…
He probably didn’t deserve it. It’s still hilarious though.
The dopey git was standing there with bricks flying in every direction taunting the old bill, in full riot gear, by gyrating his hips just inches away from them. Getting hit by three bricks in quick succession was pure comedy.
timbaFree MemberThere’s this.
A leading equality advisor who is using the term wrongly
Then there’s the recent suspensions due to racism in the GMP.
Racism isn’t the same as “institutionally racist”
This could be a sign that they are tackling the problem but it isn’t a sign that they have fixed the problem.
I applied to join the police in 1981, before Lord Scarman published his report. Institutional racism existed then, as did racism. Some forces, e.g. City of London insisted on male officers being a minimum of 6′ tall, others were 5’10”
That’s an example of institutional racism, how many people of a SE Asian background could fulfill those criteria?
Have you ever wondered why explanatory leaflets are available in any language you choose? That’s another example
BruceWeeFree MemberIt’s interesting how allegations of institutional racism in a case that allegedly started with a racist assault on an older woman is whataboutery but comparisons with the EDL are totally fine and valid.
The EDL are travelling to take part in racist demonstrations and to attack mosques plus whatever else they can find.
These guys travelled to the airport to pick up their mum where they found she’d been assaulted by a racist (allegedly).
Then a policeman punched one of them in the face after failing to handcuff the other (maybe).
I really really suggest everyone holds off on the nuclear hot takes for a while.
roadworrierFull MemberSo because the police officer was the first to throw a punch he should be the one in prison?
Yes! And that would be the law working if a trial considered all the facts and came to that result. And it would be working fairly if others involved in physical violence in the same incident also got convicted.
This incident creates a strong, even visceral reaction because people feel that the law is (or could be) applied differently. The police are held to higher standard so the police officer is more likely to get the conviction. That is why people perceive this as unfair. Nothing to do with race.
~Edit – trail / trial
1BruceWeeFree MemberA leading equality advisor who is using the term wrongly
So are you saying she is lying? Or stupid?
You seem very keen to dismiss her allegations.
BruceWeeFree MemberYes! And that would be the law working if a trail considered all the facts and came to that result
Right, so let’s leave all the hot takes and opinions expressed as facts until the investigation is finished and all the evidence comes to light.
timbaFree MemberYou seem very keen to dismiss her allegations
She’s using the term wrongly. Google it.
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