Roits in Manchester?

Im of the opinion that airports are high security areas and there should be zero tolerance for any shenanigans… And there were high shenanigans in this instance.

An airport is probably the most ill-advised place in the world to start a fight

I think he was wrong to deliver the kick to the head, I don’t believe he should automatically be sacked for it

He really should be. He’s supposed to be trained and conditioned to not get in a situation where kicking some-one in the head is even an option. The thought shouldn’t have even crossed his mind. He’s an armed cop, what if he’d have gone for his gun?

It’s either deliberate in which case he’s no better than a thug, or it wasn’t, in which case he’d lost control of both himself and the situation.

It’s either deliberate in which case he’s no better than a thug, or it wasn’t, in which case he’d lost control of both himself and the situation.

Or it’s entirely justifiable and preferable to the ultimate step. We’ll see what the inquiry says…

For anyone that’s interested Channel 4 10pm tonight (or All 4) To Catch a Copper (2024). Documentary series about investigations into officer misconduct within the Avon and Somerset Police https://www.channel4.com/programmes/to-catch-a-copper

I don’t believe he should automatically be sacked for it

I don’t either, maybe sacked but not automatically imo.

It depends on a number of factors imo including how much force was used – the punch which sky blue used to knock the police woman flat could have killed her had she hit her head on the concrete.

Would it have been more acceptable if the copper had punched sky blue in the face with greater force than he used to kick him in the face?

Part of problem I think is that a kick in the face sounds more emotive than a punch in the face. But I would expect a punch in the face with great force to a person standing upright to be potentially more dangerous than a kick in the face to someone in a horizontal position.

The other obvious factor is what the kick was to suppose to achieve. It is perfectly acceptable imo to kick someone in the face to stop them grabbing a knife, for example, although this obviously wasn’t the case in this case. But the point is that you should not automatically sack a police officer for kicking someone in the face, imo.

It depends.

He’s an armed cop, what if he’d have gone for his gun?

Considering what went on at the start of the altercation I’m surprised he didn’t.

I know the kick/stamp looked brutal in the original video, I’m not convinced they were as full blooded from the later, longer version. He certainly didn’t have the facial damage I’d expect to see.

Not sure it’s a sacking – removal from firearms temporarily or permanently.

Can you not see the contradictions in that short selection from one post?

According to your analysis the officer wrongly kicked someone in the head, but shouldn’t be sacked?

He was possibly at risk of further escalation, but absolutely in control of the situation?

And you can tell from what that the officer handled the initial meeting wrongly and that he was angry?

Contradictions ?. Possibly, but its not a black and white way we would expect a police tribunal to act with an instant dismissal. All reasons would be looked at and taken into account. At least I would hope so.

Sure he’s blotted his copybook, and should receive at worst a final written warning, but this is how we do things. We look at this, we look at that and adapt the training accordingly. Its how we learn isnt it ? We learn from our mistakes.

And you can tell from what that the officer handled the initial meeting wrongly and that he was angry?

On this last point Its on the first part just human nature. He’s been in a set to so of course he’s going to be angry, or maybe angry isnt the best term, but Adrenalin is surging through. I think the English used to call it ‘his bloods up’

On the last part as in how he handled the initial. Well we dont know what was said which might have played a part in the officer grabbing the suspect in a choke hold and trying to drag him to the ground. That kind of invites a bit of fisticuffs doesnt it.

You must have noticed the way in how the police deal with how they need to handcuff someone. its that now , and i think this is straight out of the American playbook. They seem not to need to overwhelm the suspect. No turn around, now “its get on the ground” – even if the suspect is being compliant and its a fair cop and all that.

I’ve seen enough interactions say for example a foot chase where the suspect gives up and even puts his hands behind him. Theres no attempt to cuff, no, its “Get on the ground” “Get on the ground” and they arent asking it, they are screaming it, and threatening violence if you dont do exactly what they say. I suppose i disagree with that the most, but again thats a rights thing.

In the airport scene, the officer went from touching his arm, to trying to drag him down to the floor. So maybe that was the wrong move and they should treat people with a bit more respect. After all, this isnt an authoritarian police state

People do have rights dont they ?. Or do you believe otherwise and people must obey unquestioningly ?

I take it that we the stew collective have viewed the actual whole vid footage leaked ?

If so then police authority who dealt with this situation should be highly praised.

You haven’t read the thread, have you… 🙂

I’d be really interested to see what happened (if anything) on cctv between disembarking the plane and the post security ‘public’ area where it really kicked off.

Going out on a limb, I suspect not a lot, if the boys were not on the flight and just meeting the mother in arrivals.. At which point she complains to them rather than the relevant authorities… And then they kick off big time… But that’s pure conjecture on my part.

I’d be really interested to see what happened (if anything) on cctv between disembarking the plane and the post security ‘public’ area where it really kicked off.

100% this. ^^^

And then they kick off big time

They did, in Starbucks, which is why the police were called.

Guardian link – describes preceeding incidents

must obey unquestioningly

There’s a pretty significant gap between objecting to being detained and beating the shit out of several officers

People do have rights dont they ?. Or do you believe otherwise and people must obey unquestioningly ?

What? So if you’ve been reported as violently attacking someone else and the police try to put you in cuffs you’ve got the right to put 3 officers in hospital by throwing punches at them?

What right exactly was breached by the police trying to arrest someone that they had reasonable suspicion was the recent perpetrator of a violent assault?

People do have rights don’t they ?. Or do you believe otherwise and people must obey unquestioningly ?

Yes, if you’re being arrested you should obey unquestioningly. Argue the toss in court later. That’s the place for it.

You have a right to remain silent. You don’t have a right to beat the shit out of several coppers.

I have to say that, if a female colleague was picked and had her nose broken by someone like that guy in blue, I have no doubt that I would have reacted the same way the copper did. Now I totally accept that there is some misogyny involved in my response. But I prefer to put it down to decades of social conditioning. I would also hold a door open for most people – male or female, which seems quite inacceptable to many folks nowadays.

What I’m trying to say (badly) is that I feel it’s totally unrealistic to expect people to react to situations like this in the same way as us who are watching it in video with the benefit of hindsight.

I think that the copper should be cut some slack. I think anyone who attacks 3 cops like this guy did deserves just about anything they get.

There’s a pretty significant gap between objecting to being detained and beating the shit out of several officers

I’m still minded to wonder whether they didn’t realise it was the police. I mentioned this yesterday, but certainly the brother in the grey shirt threw punches straight off the bat for a couple of seconds then a few moments later stopped short, sat down and put his hands on his head. If they just walked away from two bouts of fisticuffs then some guys grab them from behind…

Just like the officer, it’s not an excuse, I’m just wondering WHY.

I’m still minded to wonder whether they didn’t realise it was the police

Understandable given the cunning disguises the coppers  were all wearing.

 then a few moments later stopped short, sat down and put his hands on his head

I think that had more to do with an officer pointing a taser at him than suddenly realising he was bang out of order.

They did, in Starbucks, which is why the police were called.

Guardian link – describes preceeding incidents

The thick plottens, lol, here we go… So they were spoiling for a fight, (probably coked and ‘roided up) and ended up trying to fight armed police at an airport..slow clap for them!

I’m still minded to wonder whether they didn’t realise it was the police.

Say what now? people dressed as armed police in an airport? Wearing police uniform, armed, and pepper spraying/tazering them, and they didn’t know if they were police?

You’ll have to dig deeper for an excuse than that lol!

People like that have no place in society, nevermind in an airport.

Understandable given the cunning disguises the coppers were all wearing.

I wish I could put it as subtley as you, alas, I failed!

Hey, I don’t know any more than you guys, I’m just throwing ideas out there – I’d hope you’d afford me the courtesy I’ve tried affording you, but sarcasm away if you must.

But the idea that your first reaction on being apprehended by armed police is to start throwing punches rings slightly odd to me. Especially as it seems likely the CCTV we’ve been recently discussing is not the starting point for the whole thing.

 think that had more to do with an officer pointing a taser

And probably realising they were armed police and they were a bawhair away from getting shot if the carnage continued

Apart from the uniforms the fact that two of them were women was probably also a clue.

As he was punching them in the face would it not have occurred to him that it is unusual for women to “attack” men in an airport multistorey carpark?

But the idea that your first reaction on being apprehended by armed police is to start throwing punches rings slightly odd to me

You’ve clearly led a very sheltered life and not met some of the absolute headcases I have then

Ok, cool – you’ve all persuaded me, I’m now assimilated and I’ll leave you all to it. What a **** I am for daring to  have my own thoughts

A well deserved kick imo, they were lucky they weren’t in America or they would have been shot.

Well of course it could all have been a bit of a misunderstanding, but the most likely explanation is that they are just a pair of young thugs who won’t hesitate to use violence.

I am genuinely interested in knowing if there is a third brother who is a copper. And whether he’s a bit of a thug too.

For me it’s not about whether the kick was ‘deserved’ or not, as (at others have said) it’s not the police’s job to dish out punishments. However, I do think the kick was probably justified from a self defence point of view.

but the most likely explanation is that they are just a pair of young thugs who won’t hesitate to use violence.

The most likely explanation is that they are drug dealers who had been home visiting Mum, to organise some imports.

You don’t behave like that unless your used to being around violence

I reckon the kick could have been harder and the stamp more conclusive without glancing off? I therefore think that the police officer showed restraint and his intention was to incapacitate rather than inflict more serious damage?

Public transport is the way to go when leaving airports. Saves the ridiculous car park charges!

I can’t see any acrion against the Police in this instance. If the Police sack the officer, I can see him winning a case against the Police.

Those arrested don’t seem to have a leg to stand on – they won’t get any public sympathy – as menrioned that assault in America and they would have been shot.

The Met could teach GMP a thing or two on how to arrest a thug. It’s a delicate art but the secret is to use overwhelming numbers…… never mind about 3 or 4 coppers, use a whole battalion.

would it not have occurred to him that it is unusual for women to “attack” men in an airport multistorey carpark?

Yeah, but it was Manchester airport….

The Met could teach GMP a thing or two on how to arrest a thug. It’s a delicate art but the secret is to use overwhelming numbers…… never mind about 3 or 4 coppers, use a whole battalion.

The Met had prior warning for the march, the GMP officers were called to an incident. Massive difference in resources there.

It wasn’t intended to be a genuine comparison. I posted it for the entertainment value of seeing a Tommy Robinson supporter get arrested.

It wasn’t intended to be a genuine comparison. I posted it for the entertainment value of seeing a Tommy Robinson supporter get arrested.

Off topic, but hasn’t ‘dear Stephen/nice young man’ fled the UK again to avoid facing uk court?

Do we (uk) still have European arrest warrant privileges post brexit?

Yes the convicted criminal was supposed to be in court today on contempt of court charges, but ironically he buggered off abroad proving just how much contempt he has.

A warrant for his arrest has been issued but it won’t be executed until October, to give him a chance to get his sorry arse back here.

Personally I think it would be great if he doesn’t come back, and I certainly would rather he wasn’t extradited.

The Met could teach GMP a thing or two on how to arrest a thug.

Well not really, there’s at least 12 officers just in that camera shot…

I mean, we could have 100 police officers in every airport on standby, 24/7,  most of whom would be sat around doing nothing for months on end.

Real life isn’t like hollywood movies, you can’t just counjour up an extra ten or twenty police.

In the instance of the manchester airport incident, a small team of police responded rapidly to a very volitile situation… they were over powered by the objective fact that two of them were punched to the ground, and a third one was wrestled to the ground …

I don’t think any of the police involved would had envisioned they would be in a UFC/MMA/cage match that day, as they were armed.

So there are lessons to be learned from this for the police… don’t take chances, and go in harder next time.