Roits in Manchester?

So imo it is too early to say that race probably had something to do with it

I agree. What I was saying is it’s too early to state categorically that racism had nothing to do with it.

It’s too early to really say much of anything categorically yet.

Except that the arrest went badly wrong. I don’t think that’s up for debate.

Ernieit was in some of the earlier reporting which I can’t find now. There was an alleged racist incident on the plane involving the mum followed by some dogdems on the ground with luggage trollies before Mum sent the boys in.

Police are asking for footage of the incident on the plane & baggage hall along with a violent disturbance in Starbucks in T2 as well the event at the ticket machine.

We know what to do next time – send in Pondo.

Whilst being battered and watching his female colleagues get punched in the face he can calmly explain that he means no harm and promise not to kick anyone in the head. I’m sure it will work out fine.

As far as I can work out all four arrested were Asian so the chances are that the other party were also Asian. I don’t know how common racists on flights from Pakistan are but I suspect that they are probably less common than racists on flights from Majorca.

The mum was coming from Pakistan but the flight was from Doha.

Having spent a fair amount of time amongst expats in the middle east I can 100% believe it’s possible she got some racist abuse.

But at this point we know nothing. We don’t even know if the alleged racist got arrested. Or if they even existed.

The accusations of racism were being levelled specifically at the police, alongside words like ‘unprovoked’ that accompanied the initial video by the shyster lawyer.

This was very deliberate from them and designed to provoke the reaction it got… people out on the streets protesting, which could very easily have turned a lot darker very quickly

Turns out there was nothing remotely racist or unprovoked about it. It was a pair of incredibly violent nobheads assaulting police officers.

The last thing we need in places like Rochdale, where tensions have been simmering for years, is idiots like them and their lawyer deliberately fanning the flames to make out this is some George Floyd type situation when in reality it’s just a pair of thugs being a pair of thugs. Full stop.

I’m hoping that the police are looking at charging the lawyer – who’s absence is now very noticeable – with incitement or at the very least he’s struck off

Well said binners : thumbs up emoji

The accusations of racism were being levelled specifically at the police

Agreed but  there are also other specific accusations that the mother was the victim of racist abuse from other passengers.

I don’t know what the source of that is…..an eyewitness?

On the face of it it would appear that the two parties in the altercation were both Asian.

Agreed but  there are also other specific accusations that the mother was the victim of racist abuse from other passengers.

I don’t know what the source of that is…..an eyewitness?

On the face of it it would appear that the two parties in the altercation were both Asian.

I don’t think any of that info is in the public domain.. there is suggestion (from Andy Burnhams quotes) that ‘something happened’ on the plane, which then clearly escalated significantly between being on the plane, and what we’ve seen.

I’d imagine the airline/staff will need to comment, and other passengers, and there will be security footage from arrivals security CCTV, passport control, baggage collection area etc, which I guess the airport authorities are not making public as it’s an ongoing investigation.

Also, a random musing, once you are landed but are still ‘air-side’ (as in before passport control), are the laws different?, as you are still not technically in the UK (or whatever country you have landed in) before you’ve been through passport control, so that might add a layer of consideration if the ruckus started on the plane and continued all the way through to the car park.

Agreed but  there are also other specific accusations that the mother was the victim of racist abuse from other passengers.

So ****ing what? I’m sure that we’ve all been subjected to personal abuse of one sort or another. How many of us end up escalating that to the point of punching a female police  officer full on in the face, breaking her nose?

They’re a pair of thugs, and there is absolutely no justification whatsoever for either their assaults on the police or the subsequent whipping up of an entirely contrived, manufactured and completely baseless accusation of racism against the police

Its the last bit that really pisses me off more than anything, just because of its shameless opportunistic cynicism. You’re playing with fire when you start deliberately whipping up racial tension to suit your own ends and there are potentially very serious real world repercussions for that kind of shit

So ****ing what?

So that’s the reference to racism which I believe BruceWee was talking about.

No need to get stroppy, calm down. You Manchester types are proper hotheads. No wonder things are always kicking off

there are also other specific accusations that the mother was the victim of racist abuse from other passengers

Amazingly enough that’s not going to be an acceptable defence in court for beating up some police officers

Why do people make assumptions about what other people are not saying?

No need to get stroppy, calm down. You Manchester types are proper hotheads. No wonder things are always kicking off

We’ve had riots in Leeds last week with a racial element to them, we’ve had riots in Oldham not to long back for the same reasons. Places like Rochdale are simmering and tense for all manner of reasons. For some prick of a lawyer to start deliberately inflaming that to make a name for himself and try and get a couple of Uber-violent thugs off the hook for assaulting the police is the very height of cynical opportunism.

They clearly didn’t give a flying **** about the consequences, which could very easily have been far, far worse. Everything these two and their dodgy lawyer have done just undermines community cohesion and the already difficult job of policing

If a copper did actually racially abuse somebody in Rochdale tomorrow and it wasn’t on camera and that person made a complaint, do you think they’d be believed, given what’s happened over the last couple of days?

They needed to be more like this guy

I said that I agreed with you binners. Look :

Agreed but there are also other specific accusations that the mother was the victim of racist abuse from other passengers.

I am not disagreeing.

Personally I wouldn’t like to see armed police breaking up drunken fights on a Saturday night.  Seems like that could get a bit too interesting.

Now I’m with you.

Reporting of initial incident

Specifically mentions there were racist comments in the baggage hall.

On the face of it it would appear that the two parties in the altercation were both Asian.

Which absolutely doesn’t rule out racism.

Looks like the family are now back peddling furiously and have ditched the knob head lawyer.

Family of kicked man concerned for hurt officers

Places like Rochdale are simmering and tense for all manner of reasons

And there’s far too many using it as an opportunity to up their own profile, George Galloway for example.

10 pages in and despite the nature of the topic the thread is still open, no flounces or bans. Is this the new world we live in under Labour…….just you all wait until Trump gets in, things will get back to normal around here.

Personally I wouldn’t like to see armed police breaking up drunken fights on a Saturday night. Seems like that could get a bit too interesting.

Armed officers break up fights every day of the week. They are regular Police officers most of the time, only deployed specifically as armed officers in specific instances.

The fact that people don’t seem to know this suggests it isn’t an issue after all.

And there’s far too many using it as an opportunity to up their own profile, George Galloway for example

Exactly my point. But all these shysters are doing is sowing division to further their own agenda’s and ego’s. None offer any solutions

I live 5 miles out of Rochdale and used to ride through it every day on my commute. It’s a place that seems as racially divided as apartheid South Africa and has some areas where you can literally smell the poverty.

This seems to have made it a magnet for snake oil salesmen who are just in it for themselves and to further their own agendas, while inflaming an already difficult situation. They’ve certainly no interest in solutions to its problems and are just making things worse

From the Beeb “Mr Yakoob is no longer acting for the family, which has instructed a new lawyer.”

Finally looked at the video.

That big guy hitting the little wpc could easily have killed her. Who hits a woman like that?

Also you shouldn’t kick a man when he’s down but I have little sympathy for him.

We know what to do next time – send in Pondo.

Cant we(not I obviously) wrap that. Trolling members who have a different opinion to yourself.

.

But my my, isn’t this the thread of ‘what if’s’  and some of the comments wouldnt be out of place if this was the daily mail comments section.

I always thought this was a bit of a leftie place, but it certainly appears i was wrong there.

.

Was the officer out of order for kicking him in the head – Absolutely

Was it a result of anger from being bashed about – Absolutely

Was the officer at risk of further escalation from the bloke on the ground – Possibly

But was he at that point in control of the situation – Absolutely

Should the officer be sacked – No

Did the police handle the initial meeting wrongly – Yes

Is the lawyer attempting to stir up racial hate – Without a doubt (In fact i think he should be struck off for such behaviour)

Should STW members be verbally abused for their difference of opinion – Clearly not, so stop doing it

.

I personally think the police officer kicked him in the face out of anger. He clearly lost the plod.

He clearly lost the plod.

Puntastic

Armed officers break up fights every day of the week. They are regular Police officers most of the time, only deployed specifically as armed officers in specific instances.

The fact that people don’t seem to know this suggests it isn’t an issue after all.

So police with guns regularly find themselves rolling around on the floor with suspects and no idea if the folk they are rolling around with are trying to get hold of their weapon or not?

I’m not an expert but if it were me I’d maybe have a look at how officers were being trained and see if I couldn’t figure out a way of not having that happen.

If you look at the history of Yakoob in the run up to the GE its a bit obvious he loves to stir the pot up

It’s nothing to do with training but 100% to do with resourcing. The Police do not have enough resources to have armed Police as some sort of army in waiting.

I was an AFO for almost 18 years and would routinely get deployed to all manner of incidents that had nothing to do with an armed threat. In fact, because we were the only ones to carry Taser for quite a long time we would be sent to every incident that had a hint of violence.

Domestic incident were by far the worst and saw more instances of people trying to snatch weapons than any other.

First & foremost AFOs are Police Officers and they do what the public expect of them as Police Officers.

“Cant we(not I obviously) wrap that. Trolling members who have a different opinion to yourself”

I didn’t realise that was a rule. I see so many ‘big hitters’ doing it all the time (see the ‘woke’ thread) I assumed it was ok.

Be interesting to hear if the way the officer went about trying to arrest the blue tracksuit guy is how you would have done it, mildred?

To me, going into the middle of a group like that and grabbing someone seems a bit foolhardy and risks the kind of escalation we ended up seeing.

going into the middle of a group like that

It was 2 males and their mother Vs 4 cops. I don’t believe they expected what was about to occur. Unless by group you meant that the area in general was full of people of a similar ethnic background? I don’t believe the surrounding people were connected to the antagonists at all.

Was the officer at risk of further escalation from the bloke on the ground – Possibly

Probably not instantly but I wouldn’t turn my back on him, all the same

But was he at that point in control of the situation – Absolutely

“In control” is pushing your luck a bit, given how rapidly he lost control initially – and that was with 3 fit colleagues around him.  There wasn’t only that lad to worry about.  The kicky copper had (I think) been attacked from behind twice by that point.  How would he know that there were no other potential attackers in the noisy group around him, or that the initial attacker who was sitting with his hands on his head wouldn’t join in again?

Anyhow, they’ll likely all have their day in court so we’ll get “there” in the end

It was 2 males and their mother Vs 4 cops. I don’t believe they expected what was about to occur. Unless by group you meant that the area in general was full of people of a similar ethnic background?

At the risk of sounding racist, yes. How did the police officer know that he was dealing with two guys and their mother and none of the other dozen or so people in the immediate vicinity were in any way connected?  You’ll often find quite large groups at airports to meet a single person.

To me, the kick isn’t the important part. It’s just the culmination of the actions of an officer who did not seem to be acting sensibly and put himself, his colleagues, and the general public at risk for no obvious reason.

The question is, was he just shit at his job or was he not acting rationally for some reason.

Or is there yet more information still to come to light that will explain it?  I’d say we still only have part of the entire story.

It’s definitely too early to say racism had anything to do with it.  However, it’s also too early to say racism had nothing to do with it.

While people who are too quick to call racism have an agenda and/or some preconceived notions about the police, I think it’s fair to say anyone who is categorically ruling out racism as a factor may also have an agenda and/or some preconceived notions.

Like Andy Burnham said, I think we need to wait for the entire story.

Edit. Not joining this personal opinion fest when I, and nobody else, really knows enough.

Like Andy Burnham said, I think we need to wait for the entire story.

Which is obviously the sensible thing to do, but 10 pages in, none of us are very good at it  ?

Post withdrawn, context of original quote unclear

@dyna-ti, for clarity, are these your opinions or your summary of the thread so far?

Was the officer out of order for kicking him in the head – Absolutely
Was it a result of anger from being bashed about – Absolutely
Was the officer at risk of further escalation from the bloke on the ground – Possibly
But was he at that point in control of the situation – Absolutely
Should the officer be sacked – No
Did the police handle the initial meeting wrongly – Yes

Sorry, cant tell if you’re being humerous or not lol

But for the sake of clarity, just my thoughts on it.

Which is obviously the sensible thing to do, but 10 pages in, none of us are very good at it  ?

Once this official STW enquiry is concluded and the results forwarded to the authorities, it can be rubber-stamped and officially released.Until then we need to be patient.

Was the officer out of order for kicking him in the head – Absolutely
Was it a result of anger from being bashed about – Absolutely
Was the officer at risk of further escalation from the bloke on the ground – Possibly
But was he at that point in control of the situation – Absolutely
Should the officer be sacked – No
Did the police handle the initial meeting wrongly – Yes

Can you not see the contradictions in that short selection from one post?

According to your analysis the officer wrongly kicked someone in the head, but shouldn’t be sacked?

He was possibly at risk of further escalation, but absolutely in control of the situation?

And you can tell from what that the officer handled the initial meeting wrongly and that he was angry?

I don’t think there being contradictions necessarily mean it’s not accurate – I think he was wrong to deliver the kick to the head, I don’t believe he should automatically be sacked for it, should a compelling case for his genuine belief of necessity be made.

Given the instant escalation, the impression it gives is that the initial meeting was handled incorrectly, and his subsequent actions (kicking the guy who was sitting on the bench in the leg as he was in the process of complying, and pepper-spraying the guy who was filming) are also suggestive of his state of mind, I believe. I think he was angry – that doesn’t mean he wasn’t also scared, unsure of who was a threat or worried about his colleagues, but I think his kicks, stamps and pepper spraying were chiefly acts of retribution out of anger.