It’s the least pro, pro sport (from an athletic perspective)

One last thing… this bit… Are you saying the riders are not athletes ? Not trained ?

Weeksy – what I said was slightly tongue in cheek, but a lot of that is based on what the general population think

Qualifying – if it’s there just to determine a starting order then you could use the results from the last race?

I can’t think of any other sport where qualifying is there to penalise your start position in the race ie going last in theory means that the course has deteriorated by the time you get to it.

At the last race it was known the track would get worse the more riders road it. So if they were being savvy you would have qualified down the field to get an early start

Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message. Which comes back to where should she have gone back to to earn the points to get back in to a World Cup race

All of what I am saying is slightly tongue in cheek but the sport is quite amateurish when it’s competing against some very slick professionals run sports

If mtb DH wants to get that international standing it has to be professional. I guess surfing is the equivalent, that went pro, some riders hated it and gave up competition, but for a sport to be successful internationally it does have to conform to expectations of normality. Hence why the likes of speed walking makes it to the olympics and not DH mtb

Are you saying the riders are not athletes ? Not trained ?

This is an interesting one. Some certainly are but others appear not. And perhaps again the way the sport portrays itself.

If you watch vlogs from the likes of Brendan Fairclough, Bernard Kerr it’s all about having a laugh, and riding DH tracks, no technical or physical training (again all about how the sport portrays itself) Plus some of them certainly don’t have the physique of an athlete.

Some are complete machines though, Gee Atherton for example who quite clear takes the physical aspect very seriously

As I say all that I am saying is slightly tongue in cheek, but trying to give that insight from people who don’t like MTB’s or even people who are keen on others sports

Qualifying – if it’s there just to determine a starting order then you could use the results from the last race?

Points are awarded for qualifying, these were put in place to intentionally stop riders attempting to piss around with start positions.

squirrelking
Free Member

@mashr yeah but tennis and golf are absolute mind numbing bollocks and yet still manage to make the Olympics. As does speed walking. SPEED WALKING FOR CHRISTS SAKE!

tennis – 2 players fighting to the death, easy for someone like me with no interest in tennis to get
golf – traditional sport with huge following (which has been up and down, but still huge compared to DH)
speed walking – the weirdo’s have to have something to watch

As said a couple of times before though, fans of a particular sport are ****ing terrible judges of how exciting that is to a wider audience

Points are awarded for qualifying, these were put in place to intentionally stop riders attempting to piss around with start positions.

Ah that makes sense, can’t say I’ve seen that explained since I’ve been watching it

At the last race it was known the track would get worse the more riders road it. So if they were being savvy you would have qualified down the field to get an early start

But somehow, the guys who qualify in the fastest 5 often end at the pointy end… It’s rare it’s won by someone who qualified outside the top 10…

I’m not arguing thouhg mate and keep your answers tongue in cheek, as you know, i do it on other threads…
I love a DH discussion, as i love all MTB discussions…. so the more the merrier… i may not agree with everything you say about it…. but it’s all valid opinions 🙂

Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message. Which comes back to where should she have gone back to to earn the points to get back in to a World Cup race

Tricky one as she’s a bit ‘different’ to an average Joe turning up and it could be argued she had every right as she was on maternity leave… or even injured, so she’d not quit as such, was just out of action. Plenty of people in sports come back in after injury retaining their position from pre-injury in terms of being allowed into big events… however i’ll conceed, hers was quite a long time out.
She did bloody well though for someone who wasn’t taking it 100% 😀

speed walking – the weirdo’s have to have something to watch

For those who have no interest or knowledge – replace speed walking with almost any other sport and that statement still stands up.

Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message.

For me the message was that of a the most successful athlete in her field (by quite some margin) picking back up after she had some Mat leave. To me that sends a powerful message to all women, that here’s a sport that won’t just either chuck you on the heap because you’ve had a baby, or penalise you by taking away your start place – because you’ve had a baby

What message d’you think it sent?

What message d’you think it sent?

She had an injury and hadnt raced at elite level since

For those who have no interest or knowledge – replace speed walking with almost any other sport and that statement still stands up.

This. My best mate is fully mental about F1, to.me it’s cars driving around in misshapen circles and dull as hell.

But I appreciate and respect his passion as I have similar for DH & Enduro (although that coverage is dull)

She had an injury and hadnt raced at elite level since

You haven’t thought this through have you.

On a related note, have you ever wondered what all your favourite DH stars sound like when they say, ‘I don’t know’?

Watch this Vital MTB video to find out. The results will shock you!

Kinda bonkers to not know anything about how your sport is going to be run next season. Shows the fragility of the discipline if I’m honest. Question for those who follow other sports, do other broadcasters have as big an impact/influnece on those sports and they way their run as they seem to have here?

Question for those who follow other sports, do other broadcasters have as big an impact/influnece on those sports and they way their run as they seem to have here?

Good question – sounds like the sport has allowed itself to be run by the broadcaster rather than having its own authority/federation.

That video IMO highlights the lack of professionalism in the sport (management) feel really sorry for the riders. How the hell does a team plan financially for next year when it doesnt know what its doing ?!?!

Does come back to the original question. You either get fully pro as a sport, or be happy being a side line sport. Unfortunately sport is all about money these days

Back to the original post. Rob makes DH racing appear interesting on TV. When he didnt do it for a while it became dull.

Does come back to the original question. You either get fully pro as a sport, or be happy being a side line sport. Unfortunately sport is all about money these days

That would require a shift in priorities at BC to really get behind the evolution of the sport and facilitate the pipeline you’d need.

For me the message was that of a the most successful athlete in her field (by quite some margin) picking back up after she had some Mat leave. To me that sends a powerful message to all women, that here’s a sport that won’t just either chuck you on the heap because you’ve had a baby, or penalise you by taking away your start place – because you’ve had a baby

She’s had “maternity leave”, a bad injury, and the covid affected seasons. Any one of those in isolation means some serious time out. All three combined have added up to a three year absence.

It will be great to see her return to form, even if the current field seem to have stepped it up in her absence. Take away the injury, the time off and take 5 years off her age and I still doubt she would dominate today like she did in 2015-17.

But seriously, the riders in general, not fit? Have you seen them with their shirts off?

Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message. Which comes back to where should she have gone back to to earn the points to get back in to a World Cup race

Wildcard entries are common in loads of sports. It’s a way of giving new talent a chance to experience big competitions or give injured athletes a way back in. Happens at Wimbledon and the Open golf, so why not MTB? Most of the entries get nowhere, just look at the number of former golf champs that didn’t make the cut a St Andrews a few weeks back, but it’s good for fans without shaking up the final results. Occasionally you’ll find a new talent who gets a good result and earns enough points to qualify automatically for the next year.

Not just anyone can turn up and enter a WC DH race, you need to have won a certain number of UCI points. In MTB there are very few uk races that give enough UCI points to qualify for a WC, and they will likely be snapped up by a rider who doesn’t need them. For every WC round, British Cycling have a number [5?] wildcard jerseys to give out and I think the host country may get more to encourage new local riders. This was how Ben Cathro got back on tour, a jersey for a couple of rounds then had good enough results to earn points for this year. If they want to thin the field a bit, then a better way would to raise the point threshold to get a slot.

Disagree with weeksy about there being feeder series. Yes, there is a progression of race series, but none really feed into each other is the traditional sense. Look at the BDS. Lots of regular riders, but the top pro’s pick and choose what races they do, affecting the overall. Loads of them turn up a Fort William for the experience on the track pre World Cup and do no other rounds. It would be like Lewis Hamilton racing certain races in other series for more track time, it just wouldn’t happen there.

EWS manage a pro race and a punters race in the same week, so why not DH? Fixed field of 50 for the year in the top class, bottom 15 at end of year drop down replaced by top 15 from the feeder series. It’s easier for organisers and those privateers that want the experience of a full season can still have it. Works in all sorts of motorsport.

There is a big question about what the world cup is for.

Should non pros be allowed to enter at all, or should it be for riders on pro teams only like world tour road races?

I’m not familiar DH outside the big name riders but I know that in XC there are riders coming midfield doing it as a hobby. Should they be cut out?

If it goes pro only, how will riders break into the sport?

I’m going to be lazy and just CTRL+V my comment from the Pinkbike article.

Controversial opinion: Warner IS the voice of DH, but he’s been coasting a bit and going through the motions for the past few years. He was at his best around five years ago.
He’s still competent and a safe pair of hands, but he doesn’t bring the insights, the gossip and – indeed – the colourful quotes he used to.
I’m sure a change of commentary team COULD be a positive thing, but it’ll have to be done very carefully and the new commentators will have a job to even match Rob when he was a bit off the boil.

Thoughts?

People complain about Rob Warner not being as wild as he used to be but he had to tone it down a lot to get the job in the first place. Red Bull didn’t want him because he was an unprofessional maniac. He had to prove he was serious and go to commentary school to learn how to do the job properly. So yes, he’s not drinking and going crazy like he used to but if he was he would have been replaced years ago.

Go back and watch some Youtube clips of the Freecaster days. It was funny at the time but it’s kind of embarrassing now.

anyone here a cricket fan? quite a few parallels to be drawn

I think so, certainly from the perpective of someone who loves the sport but can’t afford the sub to Sky Sports- it’s only very recently there’s been stuff on free-to-air channels and The Hundred has been a breath of fresh air in this respect I think. A breakaway Crankworx/Red Bull series with more rounds would be ace.

#bringback4X

I think so, certainly from the perpective of someone who loves the sport but can’t afford the sub to Sky Sports- it’s only very recently there’s been stuff on free-to-air channels and The Hundred has been a breath of fresh air in this respect I think

thats an interesting angle I hadnt considered.

I was thinking along the lines of players at the edges of the top flight getting a bit screwed until they unionised/worked together; plus the breakaway leagues of varying success/quality/popularity over the years that initially had the ICC/national bodies threatening to ban anyone who played in them.
Plus half of them wanting more games/competitions for more chances to win/compete/get paid while the other half wanted it reduced citing player burn out/injury and fan apathy.

Surprised about attitudes to Racheal Atherton on this forum tbh. Should not be penalised for having a child… Discriminatory.

And to those who think you can turn up and have a go. Getting enough points is **** hard. Even those who scrape a point and dont qualify for the main are still very quick. Whats remarkable is how much quicker guys like Pierron are.

But I also think they need streamline it so there’s less riders and more races. Riders and teams need more screen time. It’s not marketable to the outside world save for energy drink sponsors.

See bike racing, F1 etc for progression of riders into the sport.

I have only known DH racing with Rob Warner commentating, I have tried watching Crankworx but found the commentary not to my liking. So shame he wont be moving with DH, not too dissimiliar to when Keys and Gray got sacked by Sky, people wondered how it would go on, but it did.

Whats happening to Bart? Is he staying or going?

Out of curiosity, why would DH never be an Olympic event?

I see no one has mentioned that BMX and skateboard have both managed to get themselves into the Olympics now. If those sports can, I dont see how DH cant. I do agree with some posters where, although nice that everyone can race the WC DH, I’d rather see an AM race the same as the juniors works, so earlier in the day or weekend and then the real elites have there own race to finish the weekend.

Should not be penalised for having a child… Discriminatory.

My comment about RA are nothing to do with her having a child. They are about her getting injured taking more than 1 season to recover from that, at which point surly you need to qualify for that Elite race series again.

At the time of the injury there was talk of retirement etc.

I am not for one minute suggesting that a pro rider should be sacked or have to start from scratch if they decide to have a baby, but thats not where RA was at

People complain about Rob Warner not being as wild as he used to be but he had to tone it down a lot to get the job in the first place. Red Bull didn’t want him because he was an unprofessional maniac. He had to prove he was serious and go to commentary school to learn how to do the job properly.

Totally agree, and I think his peak was a couple of years into the RB era, when he was commentating much better than before but still seemed to roam the pits getting gossip and adding contextual info on the riders.

Now he’s a lot more superficial IMO. Still good, but I do wonder if he’s lost the love for it a bit anyway. Or he’s stretched too thin doing the XC as well.

My comment about RA are nothing to do with her having a child. They are about her getting injured taking more than 1 season to recover from that, at which point surly you need to qualify for that Elite race series again.

There is more than one route to racing a World Cup. If you are Trade Team & a registered rider for that team, you do not need UCI points to go to a World Cup. For obvious reasons, Trade Team places are generally for the top riders & shes a registered rider for Atherton Racing.

They are about her getting injured taking more than 1 season to recover from that, at which point surly you need to qualify for that Elite race series again.

having said covid hindered her comeback, it may have actually been a benefit. There was a rule tweek to the entry requirements intended to help the non-europeans who missed all or parts the 20/21 seasons for travel reasons – allowing them to carry over older points.

[edit – and rendered moot by Hobnobs comment above]

precisely. It should be for the teams to choose who they want (providing they are up to scratch i.e. super licence).

if there are a certain amount of teams that have entries, they can choose who races for them.
Say 10 teams, 3 riders each.

As an equivalent. should Marc Marquez, 6 time Moto GP champ have to start in Moto 3 again when he returns from injury? It’s up to the team. Same with DH. Getting points to race is ridiculous for what should be a pro series.

Given Rachael Atherton had seemingly at least three paths to race within the regulations this season it seems a bit disingenuous to complain about her racing being a sign of unprofessional conduct in the sport. At least without knowing how she got her start. I suppose you might say the rules themselves are unprofessional, for a given value of unprofessional.

Anyway. In re Rob Warner, losing him from DH coverage was a worry for me when I heard RB had lost the rights. I’ve been watching since 2016 or so, so I don’t really have the freecaster drunken maniac days to compare to, but I value his commentary generally. You only need to compare with e.g. what the BBC put together for things like World Champs to see how much better he is.

Possibly he is slightly off the boil in recent years, I’m not sure, but he still brings a lot of context and knowledge to bear on his commentary and IMO it comes across. Plus he does a great job of ramping intensity!

So, yes, it’ll be a shame from my perspective not to have Warner commentary on WC DH next year. I hope things will work out well with Discovery but the signs so far are not looking great 😐

if there are a certain amount of teams that have entries, they can choose who races for them.
Say 10 teams, 3 riders each.

while that makes sense, I think it only works if all those 30 riders (and the unspecified women) are able to have a full time career racing only WC races. Which I dont think those at the bottom are.

Also what happens with injuries? Do the teams call up a replacement – and from where?
Commencal-mucoff can grab someone from one of the ~72 other commencal teams.
The Syndicate is stuck with the Union.
Saracen… does Matt Walker have a brother who could come fill in?

Question for those who follow other sports, do other broadcasters have as big an impact/influnece on those sports and they way their run as they seem to have here?

Just look at International Cricket, Football or F1 and see the influence for the worse that the likes of Sky and Liberty Media have had. Basically as soon as the Money walks in to buy the broadcasting rights then things get changed and not for the benefit of the Sport. It’s one of the reasons I no longer follow F1 and will most likely be the reason I stop following WCDH. Even though we still have the RedBull coverage this year I’m finding myself far less invested in watching it and following the story as I know that next year I’ll not be doing so.

You only need to compare with e.g. what the BBC put together for things like World Champs to see how much better he is.

Jebus. Clare Balding or Paddy **** McGuinness totally out of their depth. I remember a BMX freestyle thing on the red button channel and the commentator shat their pants when a rider did a 360 barspin or something, “look at that! He’s doing a loop-the-loop and turning the bars at the same time!1!!1”

Jebus. Clare Balding or Paddy **** McGuinness totally out of their depth. I remember a BMX freestyle thing on the red button channel and the commentator shat their pants when a rider did a 360 barspin or something, “look at that! He’s doing a loop-the-loop and turning the bars at the same time!1!!1”

Yep, it’s absolute cringe. But I’m sure Balding and Paddy think they’re doing a mint job. Otherwise why would they be allowed to take home so much money?

In my opinion these kinds of lifestyle sports die a little when the establishment get their hands them. I want my surfers to be far out lifers on a vision quest and I want my skateboarders to be sketchy street freaks with chipped teeth and black flag tattoos. Not squeaky clean nerds with Olympic medals and their faces on Cornflake boxes.

Downhill has been walking the tightrope for a long time.

while that makes sense, I think it only works if all those 30 riders (and the unspecified women) are able to have a full time career racing only WC races. Which I dont think those at the bottom are.

I think they are, but with a proper pro series with sponsors, tv rights etc they stand more of a chance.
Wouldnt even rule out someone bringing money to the team (has happened in DH and happens in other sports).w

Totally agree, and I think his peak was a couple of years into the RB era, when he was commentating much better than before but still seemed to roam the pits getting gossip and adding contextual info on the riders.

Now he’s a lot more superficial IMO. Still good, but I do wonder if he’s lost the love for it a bit anyway. Or he’s stretched too thin doing the XC as well.

This is why he’s good paired with someone like Tracey Hannah or Elliot ‘Giggles’ Jackson.

Him for the enthusiastic commentary and them for the more in-depth and up to date knowledge with details.

For me the message was that of a the most successful athlete in her field (by quite some margin) picking back up after she had some Mat leave. To me that sends a powerful message to all women, that here’s a sport that won’t just either chuck you on the heap because you’ve had a baby, or penalise you by taking away your start place – because you’ve had a baby

What message d’you think it sent?

it says the rules aren’t applied equally to all athletes and some can avoid having to get the points to qualify if they happen to wear the broadcasters helmet. Anyone else who was out for 3 years through either injury or choice (in her case both) would have to go back to doing nationals and feeder events to earn enough points to qualify again. It was a marketing stunt for the broadcaster

it says the rules aren’t applied equally to all athletes and some can avoid having to get the points to qualify if they happen to wear the broadcasters helmet. Anyone else who was out for 3 years through either injury or choice (in her case both) would have to go back to doing nationals and feeder events to earn enough points to qualify again. It was a marketing stunt for the broadcaster

No it doesn’t. 🤦‍♂️

it says the rules aren’t applied equally to all athletes and some can avoid having to get the points to qualify if they happen to wear the broadcasters helmet. Anyone else who was out for 3 years through either injury or choice (in her case both) would have to go back to doing nationals and feeder events to earn enough points to qualify again. It was a marketing stunt for the broadcaster

Nope. See @HobNob’s earlier post above. More than one way to be allowed to enter.

Edit – I’m too slow typing…

I want my surfers to be far out lifers on a vision quest

I see Imran Tahir like this. He’s played for his country and any amount of county & franchise teams around the world, got a five-for with his last ball of the Hundred last year to get the last wicket, just breezing in when he’s needed like The Littlest Hobo or The Incredible Hulk, then off to set the next wrong right after he’s done.

As long as they don’t use Tracey Hannah, I’ll be happy. She’s abysmal