Road users, do we need to be filming each other nowadays?

I’ve held off for a long time as in principle I’d rather we lived in a world of decency, competence, and honesty where recording everything people do isn’t necessary.

However the past year or so, as a pedestrian, cyclist, and car driver I’ve had some unbelievable experiences with road users in the same and different groups. All the combinations and in both directions. Previous 20 years, next to nothing. People either put themselves, me, or both of us in danger of hurt or damage with their actions. Can also be in ways which would make the non-idiot the default bad guy because they’re lower in the road user vulnerability hierarchy.

Now practically as a pedestrian it’s not possible without looking crazy, but as a cyclist or driver does it make sense to record to protect yourself?

I’ve never felt the need to. Cycle to work most days and use the car occasionally. Some days are fine, others you run in to a couple of idiots or people just not paying attention. Suppose it might depend on where you’re riding, driving or walking.

I fitted front and rear dashcams to the car recently, hard wired as I can’t be doing with cables flapping about.

I don’t know if it’s confirmation bias, but I’ve hardly seen anything worth saving since I’ve had it… I dunno if other road users can see the cams and are more carefull as a result, they are not hidden but not exactly descreet either…

I think I subconcioulsy drive a bit more progressively and sensibly too, not that I drove like a loon anyway.

Suppose it might depend on where you’re riding, driving or walking.

I think so..I don’t ride my bike much any more, as the main road into town or to the closest canal path is a suicide run.

Yep. Certainly on the road.

Got the Garmin 735 camera+radar a couple of years back.

Already had to use it to report some total tossbandit driving.  Image Quality isn’t stellar, but good enough using rhe laptop + some ‘mot-checker’ use where any digits are not clear enough (M or N sort of thing).

The radar surprised me most- whilst I’d not bought it for that function, I’ve found it hugely useful to warn of **** driving too fast towards me from the rear.

Time for a front camera too, but want something with a long enough battery + copes with crap UK Weather. Not convinced by any yet (poor reports on the Cycliq previously for failing in wetness.

I have never been one to upload videos online but some years ago I started filming my cycle commute because of the number of close calls I had, I felt sure that I would need to provide evidence should the worst happen.

Then in 2019 I got an Audi in the face whilst on a segregated bike lane.

The police attended, I was carted off in an ambulance and witness statements were taken.

To my absolute amazement the driver denied being present and claimed he was 100 miles away, this was the route his insurer went down having stated their driver wasn’t present. Given the police had attended this claim was bound to fail but…..

Another issue was I had a head injury, helmet was cracked in half and I kept slipping in and out of conciousness. I also couldn’t stand to survey things in the aftermath.

In hospital I began questioning what had actually happened, where I was at the time and whether in fact I was in part to blame. I was thrown across the road and onto a slip road, by the time I got to hospital my damaged brain convinced me I had pulled out in front of the car on the slip road, which I hadn’t.

The helmet cam showed exactly what happened and put the blame squarely on the driver.

I was very glad I had camera footage in the end, both because of my memory and the shady tactics of the driver.

In the end it’s nice just to hand over  video file and say “there you go”.

Absolutely. Too many hit and run, or cause someone to go down or getting too close or driving them off the road,then scarper. Vid footage confirms everything and identifies the guilty party. Without it you’re stuffed or your has destroyed your expensive bike leaves a giant hole in your pocket.

Identify the culprit and their insurance pays your losses.

.

I only wish the rear light/camera was a bit less expensive. Considering you can buy a sports vid camera for 30 quid, i cant see how having one attached to a rear light makes it worth £300(Garmin)

Afaik, dash cameras are mandatory in Russia.

one of putins more sensible laws.

Yes, for the simple reason IF you are involved in a collision or even near collision/close-pass of some sort, without an independent witness it’s your word against the other person. Dash/helmet/whatevercam footage would literally have been invaluable when we were knocked off our motorbike – the driver lied through her teeth, and that I’m afraid was inevitably that as far as Norfolk’s finest were concerned!

Afaik, dash cameras are mandatory in Russia.

one of putins more sensible laws.

It’s all about the clicks, innit?

Nope don’t see the need but I am lucky to live where I do

I am also very wary of people who have car dash cams, many of them tend to be crap drivers

It does surprise me that modern cars don’t just record stuff as standard though. My car has full 360 deg cameras for parking which could easily record everything

I found it hard to believe when a friend of my SO’s said they considered dashcams necessary.

If all round cameras were not part of the standard kit on our car I would not have them. They record all the time, saving footage in the case of a horn beep, pressing the ‘button’, or an incident apparently. Post market cameras seem like more ugly and more expense.

For folks commuting on bikes and motorbikes there’s definitely something attractive in the event of an incident. It could help with claims I suppose.

I see folks interest in them given the surprising driving ‘skills’ on show around Manchester. Perhaps many folks learned to drive in GTA given the disregard for signs, signals, and space.

Maybe the money spent on a dashcam could be better spent on getting more defensive driving practice?

I finally fitted a dashcam at the weekend, been cut up a few times recently on roundabouts by people that don’t seem to understand what lane markings are and I’m pretty sure they’d claim I just drove into the side of them (rather than them cut across into my lane). Only took 10 minutes (Fitcamx so no visible wires if you just have the front camera). I’m glad I’d ordered a decent SD card for it though as the one it came with flew across the room when I went to eject it and I still haven’t found it (I was planning to use it for a while and swap it out if it started playing up).

Maybe the money spent on a dashcam could be better spent on getting more defensive driving practice?

A relative of mine was driving down the motorway when someone in the lane beside him decided to also try and be in the same space. The other party denied all responsibility. Dashcam made it an open and shut case. All the practice in the world wouldn’t have helped.

FunkyDuncFree Member
Nope don’t see the need but I am lucky to live where I do

I am also very wary of people who have car dash cams, many of them tend to be crap drivers

It does surprise me that modern cars don’t just record stuff as standard though. My car has full 360 deg cameras for parking which could easily record everything

This was an odd read.

Everyone in your area is a great driver and person, you don’t drive anywhere else and nobody from outside the area comes in?

Middle part sounds a bit like confirmation bias. Do you often look for dashcams in cars that are being driven normally?

Agree that it’s odd that factory fit hasn’t become more normal. Parking cameras are quite a different setup and field of view, so think it would still have to be 2 more being added

FWIW we’ve got 1 car with a camera and 1 currently without. Luckily haven’t had to submit anything to insurance or the police, but did catch a wild (blind bend) overtake on a learner driver and sent the file to the drive school in case they wanted to take it on.

Have camera’s in the car and on the bike for a good few years now

For me i wouldnt be without them, the dashcam lowers my insurance, its a vital tool if you are involved in an accident espcially if there is no one to witness it, its been used to report people who have cut me up whilst drving and using their phone, im all for letting some things slide as we are all human, we all make mistakes but sometimes people do bloody dangerous things that could cost others thier lives or change their lives forever so a quick upload of the footage to the police website and hopefully at the very least they will get a letter and it might make them think twice next time and that could save someone’s life

On the bike a while ago i was decending a hill, 30mph road, im hitting 30mph, solid white line seperating each side of the road, car behind decides to overtake but misjudges the speed of the oncoming traffic, almost causes a head on collision and if i hadnt braked they would of taken me out as they pulled back in, the oncoming car must of had thier life flash before them

Reported to the police with the footage and they are being prosecuted, hopefully the oncoming car had a dashcam and reported it too

There are ones in two of our cars, just because I was bought one. Never used in anger, just let it do it’s stuff. Not bothered with the bike, just yet more ‘shizzle’ to charge and clip to the bike.

Cameras in all vehicles and on the bike I use most on the road for years. Started off with a simple GoPro on the bike 10+ years ago due to the number of close passes. Currently Cycliq units back and front. I’m not one of thse YT tarts that uploads stuff. Proven useful in showing true blame in two incidents that may or may not have been resolved without cameras, but having them made it very straight forward.

I reluctantly added them to all vehicles. Not because I’m worried about them catching me doing something dodgy, but for the sense of ‘giving in’ and not putting trust in those around me – I like to think folk are generally decent but that’s clearly not always the case. Front/rear in mine and Mrs a11y’s car and front only in the van due to lack of rear window.

I can see the advantage in having a camera in the unlikely event of a crash especially on motorbike/bicycle but the likelihood seems so remote that I haven’t bothered to date. Loads of clips I see on the net seem to be from either drivers being unaware of their surroundings or just determined to plough on because they have “right” of way or they are just confirmation bias because very few people upload their non incidents.

I don’t have dash-cams, burglar alarms, CCTV, Ring doorbells, a camera to watch the dog while we’re out, etc., etc. – I just don’t want to live my life that way.

If you’re burgled or the dog is stolen you’re insured, no? Often there’s little to no argument.
It’s a different scenario if a road user puts you in harm’s way through no fault of your own; you’ll need to prove no wrongdoing on your part, and from (sore) experience, the Police and insurers aren’t sympathetic. A camera can help to validate your version of events.

Still reluctant to get a camera. I gave a PassPixi badge that clips to my jersey and seems to deter some drivers in case I am recording.

I seem to be a bit blasé about close passes and other dickhead manoeuvres when I’m on my own, more concerned when riding in a group with the club.

That said, the club ran 5-6 different rides on Sunday and we all felt it had been National Drive Like a Dickhead Day.

Last year two people I know found themselves unconscious at the side of the road with no recollection of how it happened. One was hit by a car, there were witnesses, one still doesn’t know. That has made wonder whether I should consider getting cameras

Had a cam on my bike for commuting for at least 10 years. Have reported drivers, bus drivers, directly phoned a few companies off liveried vans. Apology and a chat with the driver are acceptable reactions. Never had anyone respond negatively.

Sometimes posted an amusing video online (only for some gawp on here to think they could’ve avoided the incident for some bizarre reason best know to themselves (lol) ) Bit like prettygreenparrot up there victim blaming. Ah well, just the ways of the internet innit.

Somehow feel safer when the cam is on. Obviously it makes no difference, but as bouncecycles post, it may one day be needed.

I try and drive/ride like Ogmios so I rarely have issues on the road. But I had two in a short space of time, both entirely unreasonable and not my fault. Since then I’ve had a front&rear dashcam in the car and cam on the bike every time.

Here’s my advice: don’t get a Nextbase. Endless issues with mine and I’m on my third or fourth. I hear Garmin are good.

“I don’t have dash-cams, burglar alarms, CCTV, Ring doorbells, a camera to watch the dog while we’re out, etc., etc. – I just don’t want to live my life that way.”

This.

I don’t want locks on my doors either, and I’d like to leave my bike outside the shops knowing it’ll be there when I get back.
As is obvious at the moment, society is a mixed bag.

Afaik, dash cameras are mandatory in Russia.

Very handy for meteorite strikes.

I recently used my mobile ‘phone to record footage that proved I didn’t assault a car driver as he’d claimed. After countless incidents, I now just whip my ‘phone out and start recording if anyone behaves aggressively towards me on the road when I’m out on my bike. This particular idiot had l claimed I’d punched him, when the footage revealed he’d banged his head on his own car door whilst jumping out to remonstrate with me. Police warned him about false allegations and suggested he act with more thought and consideration in future. Without the footage, it could well have been quite tricky.

We shouldn’t need cameras everywhere, but we are where we are. People lie, but the camera never does.

I didn’t want CCTV at home, but then we got burgled and lost items of sentimental value, with no hope of recovery (even if the police had time and resources to investigate). We now have CCTV as part deterrent, part reassurance. Since then our house CCTV has been used to support the conviction of a murderer, along with footage from other properties.

I didn’t want a camera on the bike but then I got side swiped by car turning right into junction where I was turning left, stayed upright despite my handlebars bouncing down the side of the car, but realised that without witnesses I had no recourse. Several years later I nearly got mown down by a van failing to stop at a roundabout I was on, again I was alert enough to try to get out of the way and bounced off the side. My camera footage led to the prosecution of the driver.

Yes these incidents are rare, but if either happens again I want to feel that there’s at least some chance of identifying the offenders.

To quote Red in Shawshank Redemption: “It’s a terrible thing to live in fear.”

…does it make sense to record to protect yourself?

No, I’ve yet to see a camera “protect” anyone. Useful evidence gathering tools perhaps, great for making angry tool YT content. But all after the event type stuff. I’d prefer preventative measures myself.

Somehow feel safer when the cam is on. Obviously it makes no difference, but as bouncecycles post, it may one day be needed.

As you acknowledge they make you no safer. and when they’re “needed” it’s for blame assignment rather than prevention, always too late…

I honestly don’t believe Helmet/bike Cams actually modify behaviours on the road. instead they seem to give a false sense of security to some riders, others seem to go actively seeking conflict for the clicks on YT, and in the worst instances a MAMIL righteously bellowing “You are on Camera” at some frothing dickhead in a Range Rover tends to just Escalate general purpose twattery into full bore road-ragey fisticuffs

I know I’m in the minority but I don’t believe that ‘Moar Tech’ fixes ingrained cultural problems.

I honestly don’t believe Helmet/bike Cams actually modify behaviours on the road. instead they seem to give a false sense of security to some riders

you’re right…. cameras really don’t modify behaviours. But if you can send footage to (for example) a bus company and they have a chat with the driver to tell him to stop being a ****, then maybe, just maybe he’ll stop being such a ****.

It’s like house insurance – touch wood I’ll never need it, I’ve still got it though. I wouldn’t say that means I’m “living in fear” – merely pragmatic. Burying your head in the sand re. the true nature of society these days, is another way to go I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

virtually every day on one of the local FB groups someone will be asking if anyone’s got dashcam/doorbell footage of an incident, so they’re obviously extremely useful in some circumstances – even if just to smooth out the process of making insurance claims.

cameras really don’t modify behaviours.

They will as they become more pervasive. Some footage from one of mine is currently being used to prosecute someone for driving without due care. That person will be guaranteed to be moaning to their mates about “bloody cyclists with cameras”.  Great. Those people will start subconsciously assuming that any cyclists they come across might be recording, and maybe, just maybe, they’ll preemptively adjust their behaviour.

And it’s kind of ironic that the person in this case being prosecuted was driving a Tesla Model 3. A car festooned with cameras that would have been sounding loads of warnings at the driver when they did what they did, as well as automatically trying to steer away.

My experience of an incident, even one with independent witnesses, was that nothing would be pursued without video. The attitude of the police and insurer basically came down to video being the only irrefutable evidence that would help take any action. Right or wrong, (good quality) video makes dealing with things afterwards so so much easier

I don’t have dash-cams, burglar alarms, CCTV, Ring doorbells, a camera to watch the dog while we’re out, etc., etc. – I just don’t want to live my life that way.

Not sure I understand what you mean by this. They’re just things you purchase, install and forget about until you need them (or if you’re lucky you never do), it doesn’t change the way you live your life. Sure, it’s a bit annoying to have to spend money on stuff like that but you could say the same for any form of insurance to, hopefully you’ll never need it but if you do you’ll be glad it’s there.

They’re just things you purchase, install and forget about until you need them (or if you’re lucky you never do), it doesn’t change the way you live your life.

Installing them has already changed your life. By installing them you’ve ascribed to a worldview where you feel you need them because the world is filled with potential threats.

you’re right…. cameras really don’t modify behaviours. But if you can send footage to (for example) a bus company and they have a chat with the driver to tell him to stop being a ****, then maybe, just maybe he’ll stop being such a ****.

They might, same with haulage companies and liveried Van drivers, etc, etc…

Trouble is, I’ve sent emails to the employers of people doing dickhead things in Company vehicles, and I don’t believe it does much either.

We now live in a culture where taking risks with other’s safety on the roads is normalised and the consequences for a bad/dangerous driver are unfortunately minimal, the car is king, Driving is a Right not a privilege, etc, etc…

A telling off from your boss (who also probably also puts pressure on you to complete your tasks faster) probably doesn’t touch the sides if there’s no real risk of losing your job/licence.

I reckon we should simply make it easier to lose a driving licence and harder to get it back. That’s your deterrent, especially if driving is a key part of your livelihood.

That and useful infrastructure, in the right locations.

They will as they become more pervasive. Some footage from one of mine is currently being used to prosecute someone for driving without due care. That person will be guaranteed to be moaning to their mates about “bloody cyclists with cameras”.  Great. Those people will start subconsciously assuming that any cyclists they come across might be recording, and maybe, just maybe, they’ll preemptively adjust their behaviour.

They already are pervasive, I see them everywhere, they’re not having the impacts people believe, behaviours aren’t being adjusted, at least not in a positive way, people still drive like bellends.

And we shouldn’t need to become “citizen detectives”  buying cameras and supply evidence to the Police.

By installing them you’ve ascribed to a worldview where you feel you need them because the world is filled with potential threats

So where do you draw the line? No cameras, no insurance, no locks on doors (or for bikes), no police, no laws or judiciary, no armed forces…. In the ideal world we don’t need any of this.

I was once involved in a road rage situation where a driver aggressively over took and swung in hard after, followed by me bellowing at him. He proceeded to stop in the middle of the road to block and jumped out of the car ready for some close contact. I had an exposure helmet light on my head at the time and he hesitated from lamping me when he noticed that he might be on camera.

It was scary at the time.

I’m considering getting something sorted from now on. Sadly.

@cookeaa unfortunately due to lack of presumed liability, lack of police resources and not being able to secure a witness at the time of an incident, the onus seems to be being placed on the individual to prove the offence.

It is sad.