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  • Rishi! Sunak!
  • jag61
    Full Member

    There is going to be frosty atmosphere when lil rishi meets the king next week. Charlie’s speech in France was heavy on the urgency of action rishis less so we are truly **** aren’t we 🤯

    mrhoppy
    Full Member

    It’s going well for him. When chartered institutes start issuing mocking press releases you know you’re doing something different. It’s also becoming apparent that he hasn’t actually cancelled policies anyway, merely renaming them so they appear different.

    One of the announcements was to cancel making everyone have 7 bins, that relates to the waste collection consistency consultation that was ongoing. It’s a position that the Conservatives implemented, tracing its origins back to the now Lord Pickles (former Tory party chairman) during his time in DCLG. But there has never been an announcement on the outcome and the indication was that this was never the expected result. The CIWMs response is fairly damning ” It is probably a first to have a Prime Minister scrap a policy that hasn’t been implemented and was never proposed in the first place. We have since received confirmation from DEFRA that the policy is still progressing, but is now badged as ‘Simpler Recycling’ …”

    molgrips
    Free Member

    They have really shit policy advisers. This kind of stuff was clearly only going to appeal to a narrow demographic, most of whom probably were core Tory voters anyway.

    chrismac
    Full Member

    There is going to be frosty atmosphere when lil rishi meets the king next week. Charlie’s speech in France was heavy

    on hypocrisy given the carbon footprint of Chucky and his family and that’s before you get the his entourage of servants and homes round the country along with his love of private jets

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    I have no issues with pushing this back. There is no way I’d want to buy a second hand Ev at the moment. If you buy a well serviced second hand car for 6 grand you can do so with a reasonable amount of confidence it’s going to be reliable. Unless manufacturers sort out the batteries. Or more importantly make them replaceable, any 10 year old ev you buy will be a complete lottery

    not everyone can afford to, or will want to spend 20k+ on a brand new car. I have never bought a brand new car in my life, and have no intention to every buy one, I don’t use my car nearly enough to justify it. Eventually however I’ll be forced to buy a second hand EV, which and all the problems that is likely to come with it

    kimbers
    Full Member

    have no issues with pushing this back. There is no way I’d want to buy a second hand Ev at the moment.

    they’re not banning second hand cars

    Pook
    Full Member

    They should have pulled it forward.  Force the issue.

    Shit house.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    Okay, okay, Putin might have screwed us, but there’s no way MBS would do that to us. It’s not like Russia, a state that relies on fossil fuel sales to pay off an unproductive domestic elite and embarks on quixotic megaprojects at the direction of its increasingly batty authoritarian leader.

    Hhmmm … No, Putin did not screw UK. They have their own system. It was Boris that tried to prove himself by calling for sanctions (with the support from the US administration and then EU) against Russia. Well, that has backfired now big time. Petrol was £1.60/litre at Shell yesterday. Few weeks ago I said the price would not go down but others said no it had stabilised – yeah right. Problem with the West is that they are still clinging on to the idea that they are the “sunrise” while in reality it is “sunset” that started since the end of colonial and right to conquest days. But they still try to write the rules of the game, still insist on ruling the world, Still trying to impose on others (nation states, competitors etc). Well, once the other parts of the world find ways to wriggle out of the tentacles of US Petrol currency, that will be the day where you will see two world systems (no more monopoly). i.e. No longer be controlled or dictated to by US Petrol dollar. Yes, most say that’s impossible as the developing and 3rd world countries have weak foundation … errmm …. remember we were once hunters and gatherers? In the meantime, I don’t see much improvement or stability for another a decade. Yes, non developed countries will suffer first but once they find a way out, things will be very different. When? I don’t know.

    At £1.60/litre, let’s hope it does not go up further but I suspect it will go up further …

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Before I write anything longer – just what do you think sanctions are supposed to do? It sounds like you’ve got the wrong end of the stick about how they work.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    I have no issues with pushing this back. There is no way I’d want to buy a second hand Ev at the moment.

    Jolly good, how about in 2030 (or now 2035)?

    He’s just pushed back one of the few good policies Boris had, based on the flawed belief that a wafer thin win in Uxbridge meant DM readers want to burn the planet down. Whatever he said in his speech this isn’t to save the diehard Mondeo Men from the terrifying financial burdens and personal indignity of owning a used Nissan leaf…

    DrJ
    Full Member

    What the heck am I supposed to do with these 5 extra bins I’ve bought to comply with the Seven Bin Law?

    This announcement seems to address policies that either never existed (7 bins, care share etc), or else were not understood (everyone has to buy an EV in 2030).

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    This announcement seems to address policies that either never existed (7 bins, care share etc), or else were not understood (everyone has to buy an EV in 2030).

    There will be a DM article decrying some half-baked conspiracy about the horrors of sorting your waste into more than one bin.

    The whole thing was about keeping the wizened old gits, that were probably going to vote Tory anyway, on side for the impending shitstorm of an election…

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    He just doesn’t care, does he? We were world leaders on this stuff, with the growth and green jobs that went with that, and, not satisfied with trashing the economy now, this **** lightweight has squandered that too.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    I think people forgot that at the end of the day Lil’ Rishi is a Tory, quite a Right leaning one too. I found it telling that he sent Cruella out on the radio rounds yesterday morning. Why would you use a rabid home secretary to defend a leaked anti-environmental policy rather than your environment minister? The answer is simple, he knows who he can count on to stay on message and who is fine delivering the rhetoric.

    For now I’m choosing to believe Labour’s relative silence is intended to let Team Rishi keep digging their hole, while SKS sharpens up some pithy one liners and unpicks the household economic claims, but my worst fear is they let this one slide because they might not full oppose it(?)

    mrhoppy
    Full Member

    The problem is 11 months ago Liz set the bar so high in her act of financial vandalism  that Rish! has had to look for something other than tax cuts to look strong.

    Stomping down on the crusty, lefty environmentalists with their madcap crazy policies raising inflation I can only assume was his intention, but it seems to have been based off the noisy minority in the bottom half of the internet. The dangers of climate inaction are just so widely accepted that this has appears to be going down badly, but as an act of political vandalism it should be being viewed in the same light as Liz and Kwasi’s post-coital budget.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    and all the problems that is likely to come with it

    Not as much as you think. As someone who follows this stuff a bit, the situation will be pretty different in 2030. But even then there would still be loads of used ICEs. In 2040 there’s be loads of 10nyear old used ICEs on the road.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Exactly, and 17 years is a long time in car development.  The EVs selling in 2030 will be different to those in 2023 and if buying a used car in 2032 if may well make more sense for majority of people to buy an EV but if they don’t want one ten fine buy an ICE although who know what the petrol prices vs home electric prices will be at that time.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The EVs selling in 2030 will be different to those in 2023

    The EVs being sold now are different to the ones that are currently 7 years old/100k miles today. The new ones are the third generation, build on dedicated EV platforms and with much better battery management. Many of the old EVs you get know have degraded batteries, but the current models will not degrade anywhere near as fast if at all. I firmly believe that in 10 years’ time these cars will be a much better proposition than ICEs of the same age. The only thing we have to sort out is cheap charging for people without driveways. It’s not acceptable that they have to pay 10x as much as people with driveways.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    The whole thing was about keeping the wizened old gits, that were possibly going to vote Reform, on side for the impending shitstorm of an election…

    FTFY.

    This is stuff designed to appeal to the worst kind of traditional Tory voter, the rabid type that thinks the Conservatives are generally a bit soft on everything. Of course, the flipside is that these policies and the general air of incompetence are moving ‘moderate’ voters who would normally call themselves Tories to other parties, which is why the Conservative polling under Rishi has not improved from the calamitous Truss moment, despite lots of exciting anti-refugee rhetoric.

    I wonder where Sunak’s bin-phobia has come from?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    the noisy minority in the bottom half of the internet

    This is a good point – are Tories making the mistake of doing research on the comments sections of social media?

    Jamze
    Full Member

    A few heat pump installers raising concerns today.

    How long before the increased boiler replacement grant is available – because everybody will now stop installs until then.

    If the budget hasn’t changed, but the grant increased, that’s less heat pumps.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    This is a good point – are Tories making the mistake of doing research on the comments sections of social media?

    think there are just believing their own uxbridge ulez rhetoric, hoping it will win them mid beds.

    jp-t853
    Full Member

    I don’t think people realise how quickly commercial businesses will jump away from being in the petrol forecourt business. It is a dirty business with lots of safety protocols through the delivery chain. Businesses will transition to electric forecourts and as the EV mix increases the fuel forecourts will drop off. By 2035 we will be driving extra miles to get to one of the few petrol stations in our area. It will be drip drip and then there will be an exodus. Diesel may actually be the better bet as trucks will need that for the foreseable.

    binners
    Full Member

    We were world leaders on this stuff, with the growth and green jobs that went with that, and, not satisfied with trashing the economy now, this **** lightweight has squandered that too.

    Thats the mad thing about this. It makes absolutely no sense economically

    So one thing we do now know is that he’s as ideologically blinded by mad right-wing rhetoric and economically illiterate as his predecessor.

    Who’d have thought that was even possible?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Our new international reputation is bedding in nicely though:

    dazh
    Full Member

    There is going to be frosty atmosphere when lil rishi meets the king next week. Charlie’s speech in France was heavy on the urgency of action rishis less so we are truly **** aren’t we 🤯

    Time for Charlie to put his money where his mouth is. If I were him I’d unilaterally dissolve parliament and hold an election on the grounds that Sunak and the tories are a clear and present danger to the country. I’m sure all the headbangers would be wailing that it’s unconstitutional but the other 90% of the country would just shrug and be relieved it’s all over.

    binners
    Full Member

    think there are just believing their own uxbridge ulez rhetoric, hoping it will win them mid beds.

    Mad Lizzie was also, somewhat preposterously, sent out earlier in the week to voice the demands of Tufton Street and the far right loons who now own the Tory party.

    I don’t think it’s any coincidence that Rishi has come out with all this nonsense within days of that

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    So one thing we do now know is that he’s as ideologically blinded by mad right-wing rhetoric and economically illiterate as his predecessor.

    Because the Tories are totally beholden to their sponsors, donors and think-tanks – those unelected beaurocrats and SPADs that do ‘research’ and develop policy whilst getting their client media chums to spin their lies whilst diverting billions of tax-payer monies into their tax-havens and offshore accounts.

    dazh
    Full Member

    TBH I haven’t got a problem with pushing back the 2030 ICE ban. As usual it will be working people who will bear the brunt and be out of pocket. It needs a massive push on charging infrastructure which doesn’t look like it’s coming any time soon (seems to be getting worse unless you have a Tesla) and EVs (currently) cost way too much for the average working family. Driving is in danger of becoming a luxury activity. I would have no problem with that if public transport was affordable and functional but it’s a long way from that. We need a comprehensive plan to manage the transition to non-ICE vehicles and there simply isn’t one.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    As usual it will be working people who will bear the brunt and be out of pocket.

    80% of car sales are second hand

    Sunak is protecting the rich here

    It needs a massive push on charging infrastructure which doesn’t look like it’s coming any time soon

    sunak should have announced just that yesterday, instead he chose the easy daily mail pleasing option

    molgrips
    Free Member

    EVs (currently) cost way too much for the average working family.

    Right but you wouldn’t be forced to buy one. Older ICEs would still be on the road.

    We need a comprehensive plan to manage the transition to non-ICE vehicles and there simply isn’t one.

    That I agree with. This government doesn’t plan anything. They mistake the idea of small government/free markets for not doing anything at all.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    sunak should have announced just that yesterday

    His fossil fuel sponsors won’t even allow him that easy win. He could announce an acceleration of the charging infrastructure investment over the next five years, and not even do much about it until an election he knows he’s going to lose, in the same way that there’s apparently a hospital building programme at some point.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    EVs (currently) cost way too much for the average working family.

    Most manufacturers are still targeting fleets and people with more to spend I think.

    A mid-spec MG4 is cheaper than a base petrol VW Golf, though. Chinese and some Korean EVs are getting there.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Right but you wouldn’t be forced to buy one. Older ICEs would still be on the road.

    But as someone above said, the petrol stations which support ICE cars will disappear very quickly once the balance tips towards EVs. There’s not much use in having an old ICE car if you can’t put fuel in it.

    Anyway, back to the politics. Sunak probably thinks he’ll now have the entire motoring community on side so will be interesting to see what Starmer does. He could be smart and announce sweeping plans to support working people with a generous scrappage scheme to subsidise the move to EVs, paid for by a windfall tax on fossil fuel companies, but something tells me he won’t have the balls to do anything that bold.

    reluctantjumper
    Full Member

    Diesel may actually be the better bet as trucks will need that for the foreseable.

    Just because commercial vehicles use it doesn’t mean you’ll be able to get hold of it for a private vehicle. A lot of operators, large and small, are preparing for having their own tanks in their own yards (lots already do) so as to have a guaranteed supply for their fleet. It also opens up bulk buying discounts greater than fuel cards can manage and even now waiting times at service stations for pumps to become free are an issue, especially for artics.

    Jamze
    Full Member

    Pretty much confirms this is all about the election. So the headline ban on ICE cars is delayed, but targets with fines on manufacturers to sell EVs are unchanged.

    The target is 80 per cent EV by 2030.

    ‘Hours after Rishi Sunak on Wednesday delayed the introduction of the UK ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 to 2035, ministers contacted industry figures to tell them that planned EV targets still stand, said people familiar with the discussions.’

    In the FT – they won’t let me share a link…

    grahamt1980
    Full Member

    It is amusing that in an interview this morning he tried to defend everything as not being a part of both culture wars and short term politics.
    He is almost a delusional as the lettuce

    politecameraaction
    Free Member

    As usual it will be working people who will bear the brunt…I would have no problem…if public transport was affordable and functional

    It’s working people that bear the brunt of air pollution. There won’t be affordable and functional buses as long as there’s so many private cars in the way and so much spending on roads.

    ransos
    Free Member

    It’s working people that bear the brunt of air pollution

    Precisely. There is a strong correlation between poor air quality and lower incomes.

    dazh
    Full Member

    There won’t be affordable and functional buses as long as there’s so many private cars in the way and so much spending on roads.

    I don’t disagree, but if working people see those richer than them driving around unaffected while they have to give up their cars then Sunak and the tories will have their support. Whilst we’re all laughing and agreeing with each other about how mad the tories are, don’t underestimate their ability to turn this issue into a decisive one. This could all still go very wrong.

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