My garage has an old and a new fuse box/consumer unit.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Eo61Up]20160222_122040[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/DqmAA7]20160222_121949[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr

I will let you guess which is which. Both are live. The new one provides power to the hot tub, sauna, lights and power int he cabin behind the garage. It also has one radial providing power sockets to one side of the garage.

The old unit provides power to a number of power sockets around the garage and the lights. The wiring to these appears to have evolved over the years and could probably do with tidying up.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/EkL2WW]20160222_122048[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/EkKZWU]20160222_122025[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr

The plan is to basically decommission the old unit and transfer all the power needs to the new unit whilst also tidying up the wiring. The picture below sort of shows my plans.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/EcEcpE]Planned Electrics[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr

I have a couple of questions though. To convert the existing radial to a ring I simply continue to daisy chain the power sockets around the rest of the garage and then back into the same trip unit that it started in right?

On the diagram it means joining the purple and blue lines at what is currently the terminating power point near the big door and then sticking the other end of the cable into the 5916s RCD (badly) labelled Garage Sockets
[url=https://flic.kr/p/EcCNSY]20160222_122003[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr

Is that all I need to do turn it into a ring?
Does the rest of the picture look okay?
Which RCD shall I use for the lights – 5906?

1 spur out to the garden power socket used for music/ heaters / beer fridge / lawn mower depending on the time of year/day.
2 light switches by the small door. One for all of the overhead florescent tubes and one for the garden lights.

Power cabling in 2.5mm twin and earth
Lighting in 1.5 twin and earth

What could possibly go wrong? 😉

TBH looking at that I’d suggest getting a professional to come and sort everything out.

Get a pro, it’s not as easy as it looks! At the very least get rcd trip times measured and the earth fault loop impedance (Ze) measured at the incoming supply point to ensure you have a suitable earth. Do you have an earth rod/spike or or is the earth “imported” from the house supply?

What happened to your aquaculture enterprise?

With your reputation hire a sparks!

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/care-to-explain-your-choice-of-username

JTFC, I’m having palpitations just looking at that wiring.

It looks a mess but there is not that much to it.

The old wiring is a a mess but is basically a couple of redials with some spurs run off them. I will disconnect these from the old fuse box and replace the old sockets with the new ones.

The lighting is much the same.

Basically I am just putting in a ring main and lighting cabling so want to check my understanding on creating the ring and validate I haven’t missed anything major

Get a pro, it’s not as easy as it looks! At the very least get rcd trip times measured and the earth fault loop impedance (Ze) measured at the incoming supply point to ensure you have a suitable earth. Do you have an earth rod/spike or or is the earth “imported” from the house supply?

The new unit was put in by a proper sparky. All checked and certified. He also checked the radial I put in was all good too.

Earth is from the house. When we had the kitchen extension we had an earth rod fitted as the sparky we used said our house wasn’t earthed previously!

That big black cable is a big armored cable coming from the house, bigger than the mains cable going into the house.

I’d start again, I’ve usually got a relatively cavalier attitude to doing electrics and I’d happily DIY it but:

The rules now say you can only change like for like without getting into the whole competent persons sign off side of things.

And you’re only 1 careless moment carrying that rake away from pulling a cable down and electrocuting yourself!

I’d start again,

That is what I am doing.

I am removing all of the old wiring.
I am putting in the new ring main and new lighting.

The only bit I am re-using is the nice, new, tested and certified power radial.

The question is just confirmation that I can continue that cable around the rest of the garage and back to the consumer unit to form a ring main.

Basically want to do this and wanted to double check before I started. Looks okay to me.

from

To

If I don’t post in the next 24 hours can someone send a body bag…

Sockets should be ran on the 32amp breaker
Lights will be okay 6amp breaker.

Ring main has a “start and return leg” each socket will have two cables in it linking each socket and two cables from start and end of the ring.

If you do get a professional in, that board is no longer to spec and he may want to change it.

I’d may also put the outdoor socket spur on a 16amp breaker of it’s own

that board is no longer to spec

I am assuming and hoping you mean the old board. I plan to remove all wires from that and decommission it or at least leave it switched off with everything removed.

You have confirmed my understanding of the ring. Thanks.

I might run the garden from a separate breaker as you suggest as I have plenty spare at the moment. Why 16 instead of 32amp? Just because it is only powering a single socket and therefore less load?

I am assuming and hoping you mean the old board. I plan to remove all wires from that and decommission it or at least leave it switched off with everything removed.

I’ve no idea what the criteria is for replacement, but new ones are to be metal not plastic now as well, but our electrician didn’t seem bothered about the old brown plastic fuse box so make of that what you will, we had it replaced anyway, with a lot of DIY to do having RCD’s for peace of mind whilst drilling was essential! I guess it’s discretionary.

I might run the garden from a separate breaker as you suggest as I have plenty spare at the moment. Why 16 instead of 32amp? Just because it is only powering a single socket and therefore less load?

Radial’s are limited to 20A, hence the 16A breaker. I’d not go swapping things round unless you’re 100% sure, no point having the breaker there at all if it’s a 32A breaker but the circuit was only designed for 16A.

I’d not go swapping things round unless you’re 100% sure

The garden power is currently on the same circuit as the lights from the old box! I will be changing that

If you have a nice big board with spare fuses why not use one of them for your garden sockets, rather than spur off the ring. Means you can switch them off without turning off the garage. Just make sure it also is on an RCD, probably a different one.

Decided to disconnect the garden socket. It isn’t used much because it used to keep tripping the lighting circuit. Having followed the wiring it is 2.5 mm until it goes through the garage wall where is is connected to some rubberised cable that looks like the cable used to power a small water feature pump.

Removes one complication and area of concern and leaves me 5 unused RCDS

Now to start on the proper sockets…

The wiring to these appears to have evolved over the years and could probably do with tidying up.

Understatement but I’ve seen worse. Looks like you are on it with the ring. No reason for an outside socket to be dodgy. Get a good, waterproof one and run some 2.5mm back to a suitable MCB (Not RCD 🙂 ) and it shouldn’t nuisance trip. Ideally you should be testing everything as faults can be hard to detect, especially with a ring. Some testing can be done with basic test kit but not all. Just be careful and methodical and it should be an improvement on what you have. Wrightyson will here in a minute saying this is building regs notifiable work

You should be able to configure the new CU as a ‘split’ system – garage lights and sockets on one RCD and all the garden/hot tub stuff on the other RCD.

The new CU is fine -its only new installs after the start of the year that must be metal clad I think.

You’ll be fine, far to many pointless regs, especially around wiring these days.

Marko

if it was on a 6amp breaker I’m not surprised it tripped the lights out.

2.5mm twin and earth on a 16amp breaker direct to a IP rated socket outside should be alright, if it’s just straight through the wall.

I’d label the two legs of the ring, so makes it easier to locate faults if need be.

Marko – Hot tub on one RCD, Sauna on other. Lights as sockets balanced between them.

MCB not RCD for the little things stuck in the box – knew they were called something but couldn’t remember what.

Outside cable goes through garage wall, into a concrete patio base, under a tarmac path, through another wall, into a square brick pillar that has now been capped and out through the side to a waterproof socket. If you want to try and route a new cable through that lot without disturbing anything then you’re welcome. I am happy with a non-functioning socket 🙂

I will get a mate who is a sparky to give it the once over and sign off after completion. He will be okay with that. He just doesn’t like doing ‘favors for mates’ that involve him losing his weekend in return for a couple of cans of warm lager…

I retract my previous comment, you don’t need an outside socket!

🙂

Making progress and haven’t died
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Es8ySV]20160224_164538[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Es8yqT]20160224_164548[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/EgFqbf]20160224_164553[/url] by WCA!, on Flickr