Replacement Trail/Enduro bike

Hi Everyone,

I’m looking for a new bike and after a bit of advice. I have a 160mm 2019 giant reign advanced, which has served me well, but as I’ve had it a while I’d like a change. My DH bike is mullet and ideally I’d like to go mullet as a replacement for the Reign.

Although the Reign is great uphill, despite having 160mm travel, as I have the DH bike I dont necessarily need 160mm for general riding, 140-160mm is the range I’m looking at. No real budget limit within reason. Ideally something plush rather than poppy.

The trouble I’m having is finding an MX bike in the reach number I want. The reign has a reach of 495, that’s great for me. Many XLs are 510 reach and many large sizes are 480  reach.

I’ve always liked Forbidden and had my eye on the Dreadnought. My mate has a V2, it’s a bit of a monster compared to my Reign. He does have a heavy fork and tyres, so I could go lighter, but still I reckon it’s an incredibly capable bike, too much so for trails. I guess not all 160mm bikes are equal. I like the Druid, but 130mm travel seems a bit low.

I’ve looked at Yeti, Deviate, Atherton, Evil, Propain, Trek, Transition but all have issues with either sizing, no MX or stupid headset cable routing! Not looked at Specialized but don’t really the look of those bikes.

The ones I’ve found which work as MX are the Santa Cruz bronson, Pivot Switchblade or the new Ibis Ripmo. Not sure I can bring myself to spend a load of money on a Santa Cruz (no offence to anyone who has one) and despite not having a hard budget limit, the Pivots dont look like a great spec for the money. Maybe the winner at the mo is the Ibis now they seemed to have addressed the high looking top tube in the Ripmo v3. Maybe it’s a shootout between that and the Druid.

Can anyone think of anything I’ve missed please that might work in mullet?

Airdrop Edit MX seems to fit the bill.

I expect Cotic would sort out a mullet version of either the rocketmax or the jeht. Drop them a line.

Surely that 15mm of reach is
A) easily sorted between saddle setback, stem length and bar width?
B) all but within the realm of geometry being dynamic as bikes pitch and sag?

Cascade/WRP for mullet links to widen your options?

You’ve listed some expensive  brands so the cost of an additional link/yoke perhaps shouldnt be excluded

Surely that 15mm of reach is
A) easily sorted between saddle setback, stem length and bar width?

None of those have an effect on reach (the horizontal distance between centre of BB and centre of the top of the head tube.)

Came here to mention the Airdrop Edit MX but see I was beaten to it. Awesome bike though.

Giant got that reach number by combining a very slack seat tube angle with a huge top tube length, not to mention the high BB/very low stack. There aren’t any bikes like that now so whatever you get will feel completely different. My point is I wouldn’t get too hung up on trying to find something with a matching reach when everything else will be different.

Stif had some good discounts on Bronsons. Otherwise I’d go Ibis

I think you are too fixated on reach numbers

I’ll start the recomending what you own. 21-23 RM Altitude. It has lots of adjustment, can be run as a mullet, Some good deals around now the new ones out.

Your Giant Reign is old and weird and you should drop it as a reference point. Stop fixating on millimetres and ride some demo bikes.

Buy the one you like in the best colour and enjoy it.

Thanks everyone,

I’d prefer a carbon frame, but I must admit I like the look of the airdrop.

Good shout on the Cascade links. I’m not clear which ones convert to mullet (I know the Cannondale Jekyll one does) but I’ll email them.

Leegee – I didn’t realise there was a new altitude. Looks nice, how does it climb?

On the comments on reach. I thought reach had nothing to do with seat angle? I thought reach is a vertical line up from the bb, measured to another vertical line that is in line with the head tube? Ultimately I’m focused on it as I thought it would determine how large a bike will feel for me when I’m descending.

I do agree stack is a factor. In fact, I have three stem spaces under the stem, which I guess indicates that I dont get on with a low stack.

Sharkattack – I find it’s not always possible to demo a bike. As I always need large or XL, I find shops often don’t have those in stock to demo. Or maybe a shop does have it, but they are 300 miles away. So I like generally to buy based on a Geometry table, and from understanding what’s good in reviews etc

Just buy my Ripmo in the classifieds and spend the saving on a holiday?

Where are you based? Biketreks in the Lakes have Druids at Keswick and Grizedale. Airdrop in Sheffield have a bunch of demo bikes.

Just buy my Ripmo in the classifieds and spend the saving on a holiday?

No, don’t do that. Buy my Privateer 141 from the classifieds so I can go on holiday.

I’m based in Surrey so that wouldn’t work. There is a place locally that will demo Forbiddens, so that’s probably ok, just not sure about the v3 Ripmo. From looking there seems to be a lack of stock, but I’ll admit I haven’t called to ask for a test ride so will do that

 I thought reach had nothing to do with seat angle? 

It’s all intertwined. Seat tubes have gotten steeper across the board. This makes reach longer, unless the effective top tube is made shorter, which would cut into the seated cockpit length. Not many brands have gone for a shorter top tube, usually the opposite, since steepening the seat tube gives the feeling of a shorter top tube anyway. So reach has gotten longer and longer.

Historically reach has been a by-product of other measurements and angles. No one really mentioned reach on mountain bikes until Transition started doing it about 10(?) years ago. I imagine some designers these days do have a desired reach number in mind and adjust things around that. For example various XL frames have landed on a magical 500mm reach, which is obviously intentional. Whereas others reach is seemingly quite random but the top tube and seat angle are quite specific and clearly the priority.

The Reign is a bit of a outlier. Almost no XL frames ever have combined a seat tube that slack with a top tube that long. The result is a reasonable reach figure, but almost everything else is quite unusual to get there.

Excuse my ignorance but in the context of this thread what’s a mullet?

It’s a 29er front 27.5″ rear wheel mix predominantly.

As someone else said, go demo a Cotic – only a couple of hours up the motorway.

They’ll also be able to play with sizings & components for you to get a better ‘fit’ – I demo’d both L & XL when I tried one, plus swapped stems around and adjusted bars, saddles etc.

On the comments on reach. I thought reach had nothing to do with seat angle? I thought reach is a vertical line up from the bb, measured to another vertical line that is in line with the head tube? Ultimately I’m focused on it as I thought it would determine how large a bike will feel for me when I’m descending.

Correct. Yes seat angles have got steeper which makes bikes feel a bit smaller when pedalling, but it is a fixed measurement.

I still wouldn’t look at it in isolation as stack height also affects how ‘big’ a bike can feel. I bike with a higher stack & the same reach on paper will feel bigger than one with a lower, by the time you put some riser bars/stem spacers on it to get your bar height, it all eats into the reach.

I didn’t realise there was a new altitude. Looks nice, how does it climb?

Not the best, I have mine in the slackest setting & use the shock lockout quite a lot.

The Bird Aeris AM might suit. 160/160, 500mm reach in L, and can be run as a mullet with a chainstay flip chip (430mm chainstays in that config, which you might find too short on an L).

It’s light and not too pricey, but at the longer end of ‘trail’ which seems to be what you’re looking for.

edit: the new Ripmo look mint (similar styling to the Bird) but longer stays in L if that’s your preference.

My two previous “main” bikes were carbon before the Airdrop. It might weigh a little more, but so do I.

It’s a fair journey from Surry but you’ll have access to all the sizes and the ability to test ride in the peak. I tried two sizes back to back and the decision was obvious.

Last test ride I travelled any real distance for was Germany. It’s all part of the process and a drop in the ocean when you’re picking a bike for several years.

What kind of chainstay length are you after?

The Ibis looks a lovely bike but it’s quite short in that regard.

This Bronson looks a decent spec for the money: https://www.stifmtb.com/collections/santa-cruz-bronson/products/santa-cruz-bronson-carbon-c-s-kit-23

And Canyon Spectral in large might suit you well (also has a short end in mullet though).

Just for reference, my mullet bike has 469mm reach and 447mm rear – and it’s very nicely balanced. I wouldn’t want to go shorter on the rear personally.

I still wouldn’t look at it in isolation as stack height also affects how ‘big’ a bike can feel. I bike with a higher stack & the same reach on paper will feel bigger than one with a lower, by the time you put some riser bars/stem spacers on it to get your bar height, it all eats into the reach.

I echo this. Think it’s partly why I found a XL Deviate too short-feeling for me in reality: short headtube and low stack compared to the bike I thought I was replacing, so it felt shorter than expected once I had it built. Test ride wouldn’t have helped me much as it wouldn’t’ve been enough saddle time to get a true feel for the bike – it took me several rides before I figured out what was going on.

Not sure I’d fixate too much on a mullet. My G16 (160/155 with silly angles) is mullet with 520 reach and 449 chainstays, while my Saturn 14 (140/130) is full 29er with 519 reach and 446 chainstays. I jump between the two without a second thought about rear wheel size. Long rears even with 650b rear feels great to me, like chakaping I’d not want a shorter rear.

Like benos,  I was gonna suggest Bird Aeris 160 AM too. Test rideable from Eversley in Hampshire. They have a  M/L, L and XL sizing structure, available in Mullet and lots of options when specifying a full bike build.

The reach might be too long for you but it’s ben reduced in this model when compared to the Aeris 9 (29er) and Aeris 145 (27.5) models. Lovely and light bikes (imo) and great value for money.

I must be a chink in the mould, the world seems to push longer rear centres and longer and longer chainstays, some almost equaling the reach numbers. Almost making some bikes feel barge like in the tighter stuff but great for hauling the mill on steeper straighter stuff .    435mm rear ends   for wheelie good fun.

There are so many good bikes now, it’s great that we can just choose one by our favoured chainstay length – as it’s often the biggest variable (with all the other geometry numbers settling).

Orange Stage 6 Evo? Some decent deals about, or at least their was.

I don’t know about UK pricing but for actual prices paid I have been happy my three successive Pivot bikes and their price/ value / quality proposition. Spec for Pro XT does not have any silly discount parts hidden and comes with reasonable wheels. Of course Canyon etc are cheaper for similar spec but Trek and Spec were much worse.
And for actual riding they have been great, after adjusting to them as mine have all been in different wheel size (5.7, 5.5 and SB V2. The DW link is tuned differently to each mfgrs spec and Pivot wants snappier feel than most others.

For SB I have changed few bits due experimenting and I am still looking into changing rear shock from Float X to something else with better adjustability. I already bought discounted Mara Pro V1 but the piggyback wouldn’t clear downtube.

It’s a 29er front 27.5″ rear wheel mix predominantly.

Ah ha – thank you! 🙂

Thanks again for the suggestions,

I’m not that keen on Cotic but will check some of the others out.

Chapaking – that’s a good point on chainstay, not something I ever consider so I guess I dont currently have a preference. Is 438 on the large Ripmo considered short? I would have thought it’s middle of the road. I realise they’re pretty long on the forbidden bikes.

 a higher stack & the same reach on paper will feel bigger than one with a lower

On the comments about the stack height. Again correct me if I’m wrong, but is it not the case that a low stack height will amplify the feeling of a long reach? Surely as the front end is lower, then your bars are that much further away from you, assuming everything else is constant

On the comments about the stack height. Again correct me if I’m wrong, but is it not the case that a low stack height will amplify the feeling of a long reach? Surely as the front end is lower, then your bars are that much further away from you, assuming everything else is constant

But….Reach is measured to the top of the headtube. If you’ve got a short headtube bike and bring the bars back up to where you want them via the spacers, then you are bringing the bars back towards you, shortening the actual reach. 30mm difference here (eg 120mm headtube + 30mm spacers versus 150mm headtube, no spacers) will give a 10-15mm difference in actual reach horizontally between BB and centre of steerer at the stem. When bikes grow 20-25mm in reach between sizes, thats enough to fiddle the fit if you are between sizes.

(or alteratively, if the 495mm of your Reign actually has a stack of spacers on it, it could be a 480mm bike with a tall headtube will in fact be the same)

What was wrong with the Atherton A170? 22 sizes or full custom. Mullet and no headset routing?

edit, ah just seen the 160mm requirement. 10mm extra travel wouldn’t bother me, or see if a shorter stroke shock would work?

Has anyone recommended a G1 yet? That’s always the correct answer to a what bike thread.

Worth a drive over the bridge to go demo one.

I got caught up and didn’t reply, thanks for the further suggestions. The G1 may actually be worth a look. I’m a bit surprised to find it can have just 142mm of travel, I thought they were more like 170mm plus. Also I have visions of Chris Porter insisting I have to be on a bike with 700mm of reach, but in fact the geo chart looks reasonably conservative.

Chakaping – I think I’ve overlooked Canyon but the Spectral looks great. Thought it was lower travel, but 140mm would be fine and it seems to get glowing reviews. As you say the chain stays seem short, I hadn’t appreciated that in mullet the stays are shorter – I’d assumed they are constant between the 29 and mullet setup. I just dont know if that’s an issue or not, technically at 429mm they are shorter than the chain stays I have now.