Sorry, “NBC”?

Nuclear biological chemical

i have just realised that i have veered wildly from the OP’s post sorry and from own original post, and for that reason i’m out.

Whatever you feel about out military and whatever you feel about the current political climate, remember what the original purpose of the poppy was, don’t read the Daily Mail and to quote Charlie the Bikemongers first race rule “don’t be a dick”

Nuclear biological chemical

Ah, thank you.

i have just realised that i have veered wildly from the OP’s post sorry and from own original post, and for that reason i’m out.

Whatever you feel about out military and whatever you feel about the current political climate, remember what the original purpose of the poppy was, don’t read the Daily Mail and to quote Charlie the Bikemongers first race rule “don’t be a dick”

Ditto. Same tired arguments, I’m guilty of letting myself give a shit about some people’s opinions, when in reality, they matter not. Politicians hijack shit, as do the left, right and stinking media.

Bleat about the legality of wars all you want, it’s done and all it has left in its wake are thousands upon thousands of shattered lives. That is what it should be about remembering and trying to prevent in future, but instead it’ll be the same circle-jerk of petty point scoring. I’ll leave you to it. Out.

I think it is admirable to collect money to help veterans of conflicts, the Legion are a little exclusive in their choice of who they help, but their aims are fairly explicit. I will not buy a poppy, but not because i am not grateful for those who have given, but because i prefer my money to be used more widely to support those who sacrificed in conflict. As did my grandfathers, even though they were not in the British Armed forces.

Red for me.

Support peace all you like with a white poppy, to suggest a red poppy is supporting war is an utter fallacy.

Will be out there, hopefully not tick tocking, and wondering who will be the person to faint this year (standing still is hard, as it turns out)

The anti-red brigade need to avoid London at the moment – Waterloo and Canary Dwarf absolutely teeming with military personnel and other volunteers, bands etc. Every where you turned it was a sea of red! 😉

to suggest a red poppy is supporting war is an utter fallacy.

Some people have suggested that the act of remembrance and the period leading to the day itself have become a part of a slightly uncomfortable jingoism (promoted by campaign groups and elements of the media) that perhaps “glories” our post WW1 and 2 politically motivated invasions over and above the very real sacrifice that the servicemen and their families have endured through those same wars. Their loss is no less keenly felt that those of 80 or more years ago, but somehow the poppy that their loss signifies has become, over time, something else to some people.

Wear one, or do not, white or red. Treat each of with respect, and pause to reflect on the day, that’s all that’s required. (and I think perhaps what TJ was driving at)

Thank you nickc. That is indeed what I said and meant.

“No, you were wrong, you’d be more of a man if you could admit it.”

Really? You think?

Utterly pathetic. Resorting to personal attacks because you don’t agree with my point of view? Well done. 🙄

Still waiting for an answer about how the PPU supported Adolf Hitler.

“and I think perhaps what TJ was driving at”

That was my thought too.

Same leopard, same spots.

INdeed THM your treatment of him has remained the same and you are not capable of changing your spots. Shamefully you like to blame your lack of self control and rather blatant trolling on others. You know he cannot see your posts and yet you continue. It really is one sided, perhaps it always was?

On the issue if you think it is not political and you think it is just about remembering then wear a white poppy and let me know how you get on

The important thing is to remember but in reality it has become intertwined with lauding- THM gave a good example though it was a little fawning and OTT even by his standards of trying to provoke a reaction – of what it has come to stand for so many people

I dont wear one as i dont like what the red poppy has come to mean and i can’t be arsed dealing with the near endless grief you get if you wear a white one

YMMV but i wont forget

THM still attacking me? What a sad little man. I have blocked his posts due to the nastyness he displays. Its a bit like shouting in an empty room THM.

Some strong opinion here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/poppy-symbol-of-racism-never-worn-one-never-will-robert-fisk-remembrance-day-first-world-war-second-a7394976.html

Have we had this?

I’ll wear a red one as a sign of remembrance of all humans caught up in war, that’s all. If people want to hijack it with white poppies or nationalism then stuff ’em.

Well stop shouting then and stop posting the daily flow of made up stuff. The flow deserves a PSA – this is not true (again) – just as you do with Jambas but without the #s that you guys throw around with gay abandon.

Excuse me if the BS is in fact intentional – that would explain the frequency – it could well be this secret game with my pal Jambas that the rest of us don’t know about 😉

I should probably state my own opinion on the red poppy.

I don’t wear a poppy, because I object to the expectation that we must.. I understand the need to encourage the masses but personally I don’t like organised “minute’s silence” because I think it’s an easy get-out to appease guilt, we all stare at our shoes for a minute and then forget about it for another 364 days having “done our bit.” The poppy is a walking advertisement for this, that yes, look at me, I’ve thrown a pound in a charity box so I’m alright Jack.

Remembrance, mourning, these are personal things. We should remember all the time, we should deal with grief and loss in our own way. The organised version is very much “lest we forget” because without it we (as a society) will. Comments on this thread have demonstrated this. I won’t forget, ergo I don’t need mandated time-outs. I’ll leave the office and go find a quiet corner on my own when they’re active.

So, I don’t wear a poppy. But I do support those who have been ****ed over by an ungrateful and misinformed society, I’ll chuck a wedge of change into the collection tins, I just don’t take the “yes, I’ve donated” badge which costs them money to produce.

I’ve known people – family members, it pains me to say – buy a poppy and then keep it to recycle every year, so they can “show their support” without actually helping in any way. That makes my shit itch.

Have we had this?

No, but we probably should.

and where Sunni brutally repressed Shia

too much is made of this, yes one was clearly bullied and dominated by the other. However, the one dominated went on to be come globally recognised and influential whilst the other died in relative obscurity. Remembered predominantly for their role in the conflict only.

Besides, even when working together, the best they managed was “I got you, babe”

very good

😆

Much as I hate the **** mods!!! I agree with Couger.
Told the old boy with the medals in the CoOp last year when I gave him a pound that I didnt need a poppy, I wear mine on the inside. He seemed happy enough with that or at least didnt seem offended by it.

@Northwind

Both my grandads used to wear the white poppy- one was in the siege of Malta, the other was on the arctic convoys. Moments like this, I really wish the forum rules didn’t ban insulting people, because you deeply deserve some insulting.

I have relatives who fought in Malta too. They thought white Poppys were daft.

Feel free to insult me, it’s the internet, it’s just words on a screen and I don’t even know, or care, who you are so why would I care if you called me names like some kind of prepubescent schoolgirl?

I wear niether a red nor a white poppy.
I have no family that fought or that I know gave their life in the wars.
I did, however, go to collect a medal of gallantry for a step family member who was a glider pilot. The medal was awarded by the French in thanks for the bravery. That was my first, and closest contact with the wars. The first time I had visited the cemeteries of France.
Wear red to remember their sacrifice.
Wear white to prevent it from happening again.
But thank them in your own way for having the ability to air your views, with or without insults, with only the mods to woory about for censorship.

My take:
Don’t wear poppies
Don’t even stop for the minute’s silence
Try to live a life and use what limited influence I have to make sure these things don’t happen again

Between the British Legion and Help For Heroes and other local providers, war veterans are beneficiaries of a tsunami of state-sponsored propaganda and are hugely well provided for. There are a hundred struggling, less fashionable charities and causes who would get the spare pound in my pocket before they would.

That said, this country really needs to collectively press the reset button on the way it handles Armistice Day and get back to basics.

Time was, and it really wasn’t that long ago, when you may have bought a paper poppy from an old soldier outside your place of worship or by the tills at the supermarket. Or you didn’t. Nobody monstered or harangued or “othered” you for not wearing your act of remembrance on your lapel.

Now though, there’s a collective hysteria in evidence, aimed at making anyone who chooses not to wear a poppy feel like the one guy without a ‘tache in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

Now we have national newspapers, apparently without irony, using headlines like “Poppy War” to force the issue of whether footballers wear plastic poppies on their shirts. It wasn’t an issue even five years ago. Why is it an issue now?

Now we have twitter accounts like @giantpoppywatch ripping the pish out a culture where it has become acceptable for lingerie shops to fashion knickers out of poppies and place them in their shop windows.

Whatever moment of quiet reflection on the 11th day of the 11th hour of the 11th month, commemorating the moment when when the guns fell silent, which the poppy is supposed to symbolise, has been lost in a din of tawdry, OTT, poppier-than-thou commercialism. The poppy is the new pumpkin, Armistice Day the new Hallowe’en. It’s just not, dare I say it, very British.

Now we have national newspapers, apparently without irony, using headlines like “Poppy War” to force the issue of whether footballers wear plastic poppies on their shirts. It wasn’t an issue even five years ago. Why is it an issue now?

Because it’s an international match that happens to fall on armistice day and it was an issue 5 years ago, do some reading on England vs Spain and the poppy controversy.

Between the British Legion and Help For Heroes and other local providers, war veterans are beneficiaries of a tsunami of state-sponsored propaganda and are hugely well provided for.

What an amazingly bitter, load of bollocks.

do some reading on England vs Spain and the poppy controversy.

Ah, go on then. 10 seconds’ googling unearthed this:

The English game went 90 years without making a show of embroidering a poppy on a jersey; now we’re told it is part of some great Remembrance tradition.

When there was a hubbub a couple of years ago about poppies on England football shirts, the British Legion delivered the most perceptive comment of all.

Director general of the Legion Chris Simpkins said: “There are so many other ways to honour the poppy there isn’t really any need to put one on a football shirt.”

@giantpoppywatch ripping the pish out a culture where it has become acceptable for lingerie shops to fashion knickers out of poppies and place them in their shop windows.

Whatever moment of quiet reflection on the 11th day of the 11th hour of the 11th month, commemorating the moment when when the guns fell silent, which the poppy is supposed to symbolise, has been lost in a din of tawdry, OTT, poppier-than-thou commercialism. The poppy is the new pumpkin, Armistice Day the new Hallowe’en. It’s just not, dare I say it, very British.
Some very good points here. The mainstreaming and public ownership of private sentiments seems to be at the root

Buy a red poppy, tippex it white. That’s what we did at school, 25 years ago, the last time white poppies were popular.

Hipsters

Now we see it being used to glorify war.

YOU MIGHT.

A lot of us don’t, so stop projecting!

Nobody monstered or harangued or “othered” you for not wearing your act of remembrance on your lapel.

Has this actually happened to anyone outside of the media? I’ve certainly never seen it.

Have to say for me it’s either red poppy or nothing, white poppy’s are for bed wetters.

mrlebowski – Member
Now we see it being used to glorify war.
YOU MIGHT.

A lot of us don’t, so stop projecting!

As Mrlebowski says, i think that for a large percentage of people, they still understand what it actually represents, the remainder are those that think the Daily Mail is a real newspaper, that press “like” to every Facebook page that states the country is being over run by Moozlims and whip themselves up into a frenzy about a non-story like footballers being stopped wearing a poppy armband and how England is going to be great again whilst working out how they can move to Spain……..

i think that for a large percentage of people, they still understand what it actually represents, the remainder are those that think the Daily Mail is a real newspaper, that press “like” to every Facebook page that states the country is being over run by Moozlims and whip themselves up into a frenzy about a non-story like footballers being stopped wearing a poppy armband and how England is going to be great again whilst working out how they can move to Spain……..

“And for the smaller percentage, the remainder, wearing a red poppy legitimises their viewpoint” would be the counterargument.

Guess it depends how many are in each column.

I can see exactly why red poppy wearers wouldn’t want to be associated with the above smaller percentage, hence the ire on this thread I guess…

Why don’t we have red, white and blue poppies – then we really can be jingoistic? 😉

HORA

Why aren’t we shown pictures of bodies post battle? Really sobering when you see Stalingrad etc post battle.

because those kind of images get burnt into your retinas for life that’s why. Seeing the charred or emaciated remains of families is not something i’d wish on anyone.. be careful what you wish for, you may just very well regret it for the rest of your life!

While it may be that the majority of red poppy wearers do understand it’s just about remembering British soldiers killed in war (The British Legion is pretty clear it’s not about remembering anyone else) the white poppy offers an option for those who wish to show support for ALL those that died as a result of war, and at the same time show that they did not support the war in the first place and think that no one should have died. As the poppy appeal moves from supporting soldiers from WW1 and WW2 to those who have chosen to fight in modern warfare for which the justification is poor this is an important option.

those who have chosen to fight in modern warfare for which the justification is poor

is this a partial troll, can’t quite figure it out.

You do realise that we need Armed forces as we don’t live an a utopian world, therefore there are people who choose this a profession for a variety of reasons, though i’ll tell you now it’s not to GO GET SOME, they will not have a choice. I find the comment quite degrading and disrespectful to those that do come back from conflicts, but especially those that do not.

because those kind of images get burnt into your retinas for life that’s why. Seeing the charred or emaciated remains of families is not something i’d wish on anyone.. be careful what you wish for, you may just very well regret it for the rest of your life!

Thats all the more reason for showing them IMO. We sanitise and glorify war – we play soldiers as kids, read Commado magazines etc, and watch heroic films etc. The result? We accept war too easily. Far too easily.

Get kids to read Lynne Macdonald’s The Somme (of brothers walking beside each other until one gets torn apart) or even the first bit of Saving Private Ryan, tell them that “your son died valiently doing XYZ” is a euphamism for his body was ripped to shreds and there is nothing left to bring home. Stop the sanitisation and deliver the true horror of war. Then perhaps we will be far more discriminating in chosing military options going forward.

dragon – Member

Nobody monstered or harangued or “othered” you for not wearing your act of remembrance on your lapel.

Has this actually happened to anyone outside of the media? I’ve certainly never seen it.

It shouldn’t be happening in the media, at the football or anywhere else. But it is.