Should we stop wearing poppy because it has be subverted by some people and organisations? Go to any town and village an looks at the war memorials, look at all the young men with the same sir name that were killed. That’s what it means.

BTW the outrage at FIFA not allowing England to have poppies on there kit part of the subversion where politicians and organisation use it to show that they are true loyal brits.

I am smart, thanks for pointing that out. I think my support of the Red Cross is more worthy.

craigxxl.

I did not mean it as a troll. Read my original post again

Cougar – yes – the white poppy has been distributed since the 30s

Tjagain, I couldn’t give a flying **** about what colour poppy you wear but stating that a red poppy glorifies war shows that you’ve never experienced it or lost anyone to conflict. If the statement wasn’t meant as a troll then why say it.

TJ, I don’t think the PPU are a charity. The charity number should be at the bottom of each web page (by law I believe)

I’ve found the Peace and Research Trust which is closely linked, PPU have a nominated trustee on the board. But there’s nothing to suggest the poppy income supports this charity http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends99/0001064299_AC_20150331_E_C.PDF

Instinctually I’m a pacifist, but there’s a distinct lack of transparency from what I’m seeing. Could be a good reason for that of course.

The PPU don’t say they are a charity, they say they are an organisation.

km79 – Member
The PPU don’t say they are a charity, they say they are an organisation.

Cougar – the peace pledge union is a charity

Not trying to be contentious, just trying to understand how they work.

Looks like you are right piemonster

TJ isn’t alone in his thoughts, Craig. And these guys have both experienced war and lost people to it: Anti-war veterans

Craig, your comments are exactly why some people prefer the white poppy to the red. To attack people with such venom because they don’t support “our boys” going to fight in a war they aren’t forced to go to, having signed up to an army they weren’t forced to join, to fight a non existent cause and more likely than not kill innocent people amongst the bad guys shows total disrespect for those innocent bystanders who lose their lives to a war they had nothing to do with.

The fact that some people prefer the idea of remembering everyone, forces and innocent, and promoting the idea of an end to all fighting does not make them pond life but decent, caring, compassionate people. Not aggressive rude people who go for people’s throats on the internet.

craigxxl – I suggest you read my post again as that is not what I said in any way.

None of my immediate family have been killed in conflict is true. I have however nursed veterans and seen what it meant to them especially on the 60th anniversay of VE day and I have paid my respects on the beaches of Normandy, in Flanders fields and at the memorial to the Arctic convoys. I have stood and wept at the senseless waste of life. I remember a woman in her 90s who had a photo of her fiancee beside her bed. He went off to war and never came home.

I will never forget. Tears are close just thinking of these people

I must live a sheltered life. I had no idea white poppies were a thing.

They are if you want to make a fuss about not wanting to wear a red poppy.

I haven’t attacked anyone for not wearing a red poppy or if they wear a white one. It the linking of red poppies to glorifying war **** me off.
Munro, please quote me for when I attacked anyone for not supporting “our boys”. I did join up. I did go to war and I have helped a lot more people than I’ve hurt rather than just talk about it on the internet.
Educator, I am anti war. I was very against the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions as were lots of other that I served with only to see mates come back physically and mentally injured. Again read my post and tell me where I object to anyone wanting peace.

craig – you ripped into me for something I did not say

Enough – I did not mean to start a row. Having had some hateful abuse on other social media over this I hoped for some mature discussion and to raise the profile of the white poppy a little.

It was a mistake to post it. for that I apologise

I ripped into you because you stated that the red poppy glorifies war. Never once have I looked at a red poppy, whilst laying a wreath or raising money for the RBL thought what a glorious war. I have thought about friends lost or injuried, wishing they had been but glad I’m able to help in raising funds to help them and and their families.

White Poppys are worn by self aggrandising, contrary, delusional fantasists who, thanks to the efforts of our brave soldiers, have created a country where they are able to spout their horse shite nonsense and yet still have the benefit of the selfless soldiers to protect them should they need it. Giving a few quid to help those who have suffered as a result and wearing a red poppy is the least people should do. It’d be nice to live in a world where everyone was nice to everyone else all the time but we don’t so grow the **** up.

Never heard of White Poppys until now but I am sticking to Red Poppys.

deev – Member

White Poppys are worn by self aggrandising, contrary, delusional fantasists who, thanks to the efforts of our brave soldiers, have created a country where they are able to spout their horse shite nonsense and yet still have the benefit of the selfless soldiers to protect them should they need it.

Both my grandads used to wear the white poppy- one was in the siege of Malta, the other was on the arctic convoys. Moments like this, I really wish the forum rules didn’t ban insulting people, because you deeply deserve some insulting.

Wear what you like, many died to allow you that freedom of choice, it would be nice if we could just respect each others choice. I’ve served for 20 years, I still have four to go, I’ve deployed to Bosnia, NI, Iraq and Afghanistan. In these places I’ve seen humanity at it’s worst and at it’s very best.

I’ve watched as men and women carry out the most selfless of tasks to protect the innocent, I’ve seen medics breakdown when they’ve failed to resuscitate a young child after stepping on an IED. Watched the fallout as a young man realises that a civilian was just killed in an exchange of gunfire and he may have been responsible. I’ve attended too many remembrance services for those being flown home for the last time, listened as their friends spoke fondly of the mate they will never sink a pint with again.

I’ve seen war, I’ve lived it, its shadow permanently left on my psyche. Only the naive and uninitiated glorify war; the rest of us see it for what it is evil, hateful and destructive, a maelstrom of confusion and violence that destroys lives, whose reach goes beyond the comprehension of those who sit at home waxing lyrical on their moral high ground.

This bullshit debate happens every year and it’s as bad as politicians highjacking the appeal for their own ends. The poppy appeal is there to help all those who have served and their families when they need it, it’s that simple. The act of remembrance is personal, remember who you like, how you like, just do so with decorum and respect. For some it is a deeply personal day, many stood amongst you will have personal demons come visit, it will be a deeply painful and emotional day.

Stop the debate and just be mindful of your words and actions.

That. ^

Craigxxl

Will you please read my post again. You ripped into me for something I did not say.

I observe remembrance and understand its true meaning far more than many.

I object to the hijacking of remembrance by politicians for their own reasons. I object to warmongering wearing red poppies. I object to the pressure put on people in the public eye to wear a red poppy.

I want to remember all the dead of all wars civilian and military.

Red poppy here.
“lest we forget” and what moose said.

It’s not the poppy’s fault, but like the English flag it’s been hijacked by the nationalists, the bigots and the racists. Stuff like this:

What can be done about this? I don’t know. But it’s one reason why I don’t wear a poppy.

moose has said all that needs to be said on this, everybody else should just walk away from the thread.

Excellent words from moose, thank you.

Can I suggest that after moose’s post this thread is closed again?

there really isn’t anything more to say, it’s all bickering from now on.

I ripped into you because you stated that the red poppy glorifies war.

Of course it glorifies war. It doesn’t have to, but that’s how it has been used by Westminster politicians and the UK media.

It has become a propoganda device to promote a nasty strain of British nationalism, one which harks back to days of empire; which glorifies and promtes the military and has utter disdain for anything non-British/English.

The poppy has become a way to publicly endorse the values of the Daily Mail.

This blog post nails it I think.

Shut the post? That’s a bit totalitarian, isn’t it?

Thank you moose.

Shut the post? That’s a bit totalitarian, isn’t it?

it was shut last night?

No idea why it was resurrected, tbh.

Keep it shut, don’t need ‘kin hand wringing wind up merchants talking shite!

There are many reasons for and against wearing a poppy but in my opinion only 1 or 2 reasons are justified. I wear one to remember ex colleagues and donate to a charity that supports them but a great uncle refused to because he thought lessons weren’t learned.

The right try and use it as a patriotic symbol (don’t get me started) and the left try and vilify it as glorifying war (deliberately missing the point to suit their ideals).

Wear, it don’t wear it, I really couldn’t give a flying monkeys, but the minute you start looking down on someone for their choice, you wouldn’t get a pint off of me post night ride.

What moose said.

Keep it shut, don’t need ‘kin hand wringing wind up merchants talking shite!

You must be new, they could run into hundreds of pages doing just this.

it was shut last night?

No idea why it was resurrected, tbh.

I reopened it as I felt it was a topic which needed discussing. We don’t gain anything, or learn anything, by pretending a problem doesn’t exist.

Thanks for opening it up again. Well worth discussing.

“Keep it shut, don’t need ‘kin hand wringing wind up merchants talking shite!”

It’s confusing; apparently those who died in WWs 1 and 2 did so to ensure we retained the freedom to debate issues. I would have thought demanding that freedom be removed to be somewhat contradictory to this, and disrespectful to those who sacrificed.

The whole Red Poppy thing has become highly politicised; newsreaders being lambasted in the national press for not wearing one is an example of this. Which needlessly detracts from the whole point of wearing poppies, which I feel has become somewhat anachronistic anyway. Personally, I feel it is a disgrace that those injured in war aren’t afforded all the help they need without having to rely on charity.

As for ‘glorifying’ war; the picture posted by Bencooper of the jet with poppies on it, is doing exactly that.

“Can I just check, is that the same Peace Pledge Union who supported The British Union of Fascists, and said that Hitler would be regarded as one of the great men of his time?”

I’d be interested in learning more about this. Do you have any links to information? I can’t find anything myself, that supports your statement.

The whole Red Poppy thing has become highly politicised; newsreaders being lambasted in the national press for not wearing one is an example of this

TBH, that’s not the fault of the poppy, it’s the fault of the gutter press using any means possible to throw stones at people they don’t like. Which seems to be anyone who isn’t a fascist spunkbubble these days.

I can’t wait for next years poppy thread.