I’m looking to enter the realm of steel for the first time; anyone recommend a steel frame (ideally 853) that can take a 120 or 130mm fork?
Be interested in your thoughts
Cheers
Los

Well I’ll be the first.

On-one 853 inbred second hand in the classifieds. I have a SS one and am very happy with it. Not particularly light though.

Out of interest, why are you particularly keen to have a steel frame? If you’re expecting some magical mini-suspension super-springy feel you may well be disappointed with the reality. Like most things, the effects you feel may be there but they’re usually less pronounced than the evangelists/magazine review writers would have you believe and steel ‘feel’ is largely determined by design so many steel frames are barely any more ‘comfortable’ than aluminium ones…

Just got myself a Genesis Alpitude frame from 18Bikes for £360. Not used it yet as I need a seatpost shim, but it looks nice and is relatively cheap for 853. Not the best finish in the world, but its for riding in the woods and falling off, so that doesn’t really matter. Made for 140mm forks, but you’d be fine on 130mm – I’m using some old 130mm Manitou Minutes for now.

Have a go on anyones On One 456- you’ll be amazed.

I have a Genesis Altitude 853 frame running a Revelation at 120mm and it is sweet.

ive recently got a 456 and its great value , good ride and only 185 quid cant fault it 😉

Forgot to add, Alpitude is more for mucking about, Altitude is a bit more XC and lighter. So, depends what stuff you ride as to which would be preferable.

infact here it is

Cotic Soul is nice but pricey.
Not tried an On-One / Genesis but in terms of comfort my Soul is in a different league to an alloy hardtail.
Highly recomended.
These Genesis frames are getting some really good press at the moment.
My mate loves his.

OP- seriously I’d test ride one. Ive ridden a few hardtails (Im a nervous rider) and the 456 is planted, stable-feeling, comfy etc

Second one for the Alpitude got mine last weekend had it built up just in time for the Dyfi and it was absolutely stunning. If your looking for something a little less aggresive go for a Cotic Soul i had one of those prior to the Alpitude and that saw me through Trans Wales and a number of 24 hour team and Solo events as well as a good few local and NPS races over the last 3-4 years.Before the sceptics ask the only reason i didn’t get another Cotic is that Cy didn’t have one in my size when i needed one, my old one has passed to the great bike shop in the sky through no fault of the manufacturer but i must say that Cy has been more than understanding on offering help in replacing it .But what ever you go for i would recommend it be 853 as having had a Kona Explosif before the Cotic there was, in my opinion, a very noticeable improvement in feel and ride quality.

Funny, I noticed no difference between the ride of my 853 inbred and the standard DN6 one…

i’ve got a cotic Bfe and its excellent

Any thoughts on Dialled’s Love/Hate or Prince Albert anyone?

Here too, never noticed a difference between the standard D76 and the 853 version, they both felt the same to me.

Quite a difference though if like me, you fit between two sizes, the 18″ felt great for all day long undulating rides, while the 16″ wanted to be hammered round tight and twisting singletracks, a real blast to ride.

Frame size, may be me more important than frame material depending on the type of riding you want to do 😉

PA better at 130mm+, Love/Hate only if you might want to SS

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CURTIS…Gary does 853 or T45, not cheap but come with a lifetime warranty. You can tell a difference with a well made steel frame, 853 ss is 853 throughout inc all stays and is well comfy, use mine on average for 4-5 hour rides on Mendip.

you need 130mm forks on the PA, and if you are more into messing about that lots of miles they are great bikes.

If you do get a PA go for a size down, I am 6’2″ and I found the medium a better fit.

PA here also, great bike best run at 140mm, I am 5.9 and ride a small frame as the top tubes are quite long..

P7 – not 853, but tis a great frame.

I’ve tried loads of steel frames and the Soul has worked best for me. It is a very personal thing though. Try to get some test rides – I know it’s difficult with a lot of the web based sellers but folk on here are usually great at offering their bikes for a test.

I liked the P7 too but mine was nicked. PA is great frame but noticeably heavier than the Soul. That’s not a criticism, it’s aimed at a slightly different place in the market. I’ve not had a 456 but have had a few older inbreds. Very good and great value.

If you are near Edinburgh and want to try a 19″ Soul, you can try mine.

Like most things, the effects you feel may be there but they’re usually less pronounced than the evangelists/magazine review writers would have you believe and steel ‘feel’ is largely determined by design so many steel frames are barely any more ‘comfortable’ than aluminium ones

Very true IME. I have found the cheaper steel hardtails can have a ‘dead’ feeling ie. DN6 Inbred, 456, PA, Rock Lobster etc. although fork choice, wheelset, tyres and even bars also all have a marked effect on the ride. At that price point you get what you pay for and they all build into decent bikes.

I think you are right to go with 853 or similar as it will be worth it in the long term but bear in mind that just because it is a good steel tube, it doen’t necessarily mean that the frame angles/dimensions/characteristics will suit your riding style. The Soul seems to get nothing but praise but depending on your budget, how about a custom build or something like a DeKerf, Soulcraft ?

As Desf says – try before you buy if you can.

There is also the Pipedream Sirus (I’ve not ridden one) or the Sanderson Life. The Sanderson has great geometry and though it’s not a thug, can ride most things.

http://pipedreamcycles.com/sirius_page_menu.html

http://www.sanderson-cycles.co.uk/life.htm

Pipedream Sirius seconded.

Here’s mine.

Running with Recons, windn them in when climbing and wind them out for coming back down. Not too heavy and I doubt that I’ll break it.

i’ve got a dialled bikes alpine with 140mm forks and it is mega.
try prince albert or love/hate
really nice!!!!!

custom build?
dave yates etc depends upon your price limit but you would get the bike that you want!

http://www.sanderson-cycles.co.uk/

Totally agree actually. Its a hidden gem. Comes up long on the toptube- so worth bearing in mind interms of sizing

another Pipedream vote here. love mine. not even slightly thinking about changing it, honest!

Funny, I noticed no difference between the ride of my 853 inbred and the standard DN6 one…

Isn’t the main difference between 853 and normal cro-mo one the fact that 853 is stronger for a given weight? So if they’re using similar tubesets then an 853 will be a bit tougher and more dent-resistant but not much discernible difference.

Absolutely but that doesn’t stop people claiming that 853 rides with more spring… (or conversely as above that cheaper tubesets are more dull) Well it must do, it costs more 🙂

FWIW, most steel frames designed for long forks (5″+) aren’t going to be particularly springy simply because the main triangle has to be beefed up to cope with the leverage of the forks.

Isn’t the main difference between 853 and normal cro-mo one the fact that 853 is stronger for a given weight? So if they’re using similar tubesets then an 853 will be a bit tougher and more dent-resistant but not much discernible difference.

Or, you can use less 853 than normal cro-mo and end up with a lighter, “springier” frame.

I’m not having any of that steel is springy myth! I’m another who cant really tell any difference from an alloy or an 853 frame. I had a Genesis altitude 853 and it was no different to a decent alloy frame in ride comfort. In fact it felt really dull and heavy the main reason I got rid of it. The On One Inbred I had, did feel a little softer though. But to how much would not even be possible to gauge. Have you thought about a Cove Stifee or if you must have steel to ride the steel myth then maybe the handjob.

What size are you after? I’ve got Large (19″) Dialled 853 Prince Albert for sale in the classifieds. Excellent bike but I’m just not riding my hardtail at the moment (and I’ve just bought a Patriot :))

HERE

Don’t get me wrong – I have ridden steel frames that are noticeably springy. I just don’t like the myth that all steel frames are springy. The tube design of steel frames is what allows the spring – specifically the skinny tubes that you can get away with when using steel that would just fatigue on an alumninium frame. As above, if your steel frame has fat tubing (eg to cope with long forks) then it’s unlikely that it’ll be springy.

As an example, my (alumninium) Pace RC303 was if anything more ‘comfortable’/springy than my 456 with the same components.

I loved my 456. Geometry felt good. sturdy and purposeful. When it was time to move on – I got a pace RC305. And like Clubber I’ve found this to be more springy than the 456. In fact, far more springy (and more than my charge duster too).

Steels great. You get skinny tube profiles and a few kudos. But maybe that’s all you’ll get over a well designed alloy frame.

Imho, the 456 is still a *great* frame.

my (alumninium) Pace RC303 was if anything more ‘comfortable’/springy than my 456 with the same components.

Was this before or after you broke it? 😉

or in black…

Mr Agreeable – Member
Was this before or after you broke it?

LOL 😉

What about a cove HJ? – great little single track bike

Sounds like a PA is exactly what you need ❗