Viewing 29 posts - 41 through 69 (of 69 total)
  • Real Eye Opener!
  • Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    I’ve already answered the question I asked.

    Is it possible to recruit someone who has no previous, or predisposition to terrorism, and talk them into being a terrorist.

    The evidence (you provided) suggest not.

    Thanks.

    Premier Icon jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    I’ve already answered the question I asked.

    With a selective soundbite that echos your opinion, for example, I could counter with:

    In the case of the “Newburgh Four,” for example, a judge said the government “came up with the crime, provided the means, and removed all relevant obstacles,” and had, in the process, made a terrorist out of a man “whose buffoonery is positively Shakespearean in scope.”

    or indeed expanding on your example:

    In theory, the defendants in these cases should be able to avoid criminal liability by making a claim of “entrapment.” However, US law requires that to prove entrapment a defendant show both that the government induced him to commit the act in question and that he was not “predisposed” to commit it.
    This predisposition inquiry focuses attention on the defendant’s background, opinions, beliefs, and reputation—in other words, not on the crime, but on the nature of the defendant. This character inquiry makes it exceptionally difficult for a defendant to succeed in raising
    the entrapment defense, particularly in the terrorism context, where inflammatory stereotypes and highly charged characterizations of Islam and foreigners often prevail.
    Indeed, no claim of entrapment has been successful in a US federal terrorism case to date. European human rights law—instructive for interpreting internationally recognized fair trial rights—suggests that the current formulation of the US defense of entrapment may not comport with fair trial standards.

    But of course, the full report is there for anyone to see…

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    So none of them could prove they were persuaded to commit a crime they were not predisposed to commit.

    The exact question I asked you.

    The fact they couldn’t prove it, that’s called “evidence”

    The other stuff is called “opinion”

    People fail in a claim of entrapment all the time, Probably because the people doing the undercover work are getting it right and targeting the right people.

    Premier Icon jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Has anyone ever been falsely prosecuted in a court of law?

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    So that’s your evidence then is it ?

    Premier Icon ninfan
    Free Member

    I think JHJ is right here

    I mean, just the other day, I was sitting in the pub and this bloke came up to me and asked if I would like to buy some stinger surface to air missiles, no questioned asked.

    Well, I could hardly refuse, could I? You never know when you might need a third generation MANPAD for self defence, and I happened to have a spare £20k in my wallet, so it was a sort of ‘spur of the moment’ impulse purchase.

    He reckons that he might be able to get some RPGs for next weekend, I’d never really seen the need for one before, but sometimes you have to strike when the iron is hot, don’t you? It might be useful for gardening or redecoration work at home.

    Premier Icon jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    So that’s your evidence then is it ?

    The fact they couldn’t prove it, that’s called “evidence”

    Evidently…

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    You aren’t making any sense (as usual)

    You have no evidence to back up your claims

    The links you have supplied to back up your claims have proved you wrong (again)

    I’m not surprised, as you have shown a predisposition for failing to read your own links well enough to realise they contradict your fantasy.

    Premier Icon jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Evidently…

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg[/video]

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    wobbliscott – Member

    The number of attacks is irrelevant, only the number of deaths.

    wobbliscott – Member

    Soda dr, you conveniently forget to mention the constant barrage of attacks Israel every day.

    So is the amount of attacks irrelevant, or is it not? Go and have an argument with yourself and come back when you know what you think.

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    Evidently…

    Once again fails to show that you can turn a law abiding citizen with no notions of terrorism into a terrorist.

    Your failure is stronger than normal today.

    Well done.

    Premier Icon euans2
    Free Member

    “Do I look like a terrorist?” that was always the most annoying question I got when I worked in Airport Security. I would always reply with “Can you please tell me what a terrorist looks like?”

    Premier Icon crankboy
    Free Member

    I think on the number of deaths its 97% of those killed by terrorist acts are Muslim.
    The other interesting number is 4%.That’s the percentage of Guantanamo inmates ever convicted of a terrorist offence. Interestingly one convicted of war crimes has served his sentence and been released but a number cleared of any terrorism are still detained.
    I noticed the high number of terrorist offences by Israeli citizens in the report that does not even include the actions of IDF or Mossad.

    Premier Icon bigblackshed
    Full Member

    I’ll just leave this here: List of bombings during the Northern Ireland Troubles and peace process

    Quote from the introduction:

    This is a list of notable bombings related to the Northern Ireland “Troubles” and their aftermath. It includes bombings that took place in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain since 1969. There were at least 10,000 bomb attacks during the conflict (1969–1998).

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    I’ll just leave this here

    Please keep your belongings with you, any items left unattended will be removed and blown up in a field round the back.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    Something’s weird here, I agree with a jhj post….

    Back to the real world of JCLs trolling, I’ve seen that list before, on the Britain First fb page, along with other vile hate messages, good to know where you stand.

    Premier Icon JCL
    Free Member

    Aye, whatever. More importantly, what do you reckon to the Specialized Stumpjumper Evo 26″ as a trail bike?

    I had one. Headangle too steep, rear centre too short. Not a patch on the 29″.

    The list is FACT. Is anyone surprised when their beliefs are based on a war doctrine?

    “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    “And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.”

    “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

    So muslim apologists. How should so called moderate muslims interpret the above quotes from the Koran? “yes but they don’t take it literally” Oh **** off and grow up. All religion is insane and Islam is at the the bottom of the barrel.

    The comment regarding breeding is FACT (in Canada at least). Might be something to do with having subservient women with no lives apart from child rearing?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    So muslim apologists. How should so called moderate muslims interpret the above quotes from the Koran

    I guess the same way Christians gloss over the anti gay, pro slavery bits of the bible?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    JCL – Member

    How should so called moderate muslims interpret the above quotes from the Koran?

    In context, as opposed to intentionally out of context like you.

    “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    Context- essentially a motivational speech immediately before the battle of Badr, given by god to angels not to humans. No wider application and not a general comment on unbelievers. It is, like I often say, like claiming if you go on holiday and find some germans on the beach, Winston Churchill says you should fight them. Only in this case, also, you think you’re an angel.

    “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

    “And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.”

    I’m not really sure where you were going with this one tbh, so it’s harder to debunk. It is, more or less “We (ie, god- it’s the royal we, it’s not muslims in general) send warning to Our enemies that they must repent, or else”- pretty standard old testament wrath of god stuff and a lot more moderate than sending a great flood. It’s impossible to interpret as a commandment to muslims to go to war.

    “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

    Context (with a more accepted translation): Ironically, this passage is about Jesus and his followers. “Those who reject faith” is more commonly translated as “Those who disbelieved”, as quoted in this enlarged text below-it is those who rejected Jesus. It is not a general attack on non-muslims

    “When God said, “O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

    And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.

    But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers.”

    I’m no scholar, or muslim for that matter- it takes seconds to look this stuff up, 9 times out of 10 all you have to do is look at the adjacent passages. And of course it’s not surprising that people choose translations that suit their agenda best.

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    Is anyone surprised when their beliefs are based on a war doctrine?

    What is your qualification in relation to the Quran?

    As if you have ever even read it.

    PS jesus was a warmongerer obviously

    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

    Scary eh ?

    Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

    15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Are you a christian apologist?

    How should we interpret these?

    You can do this with any religious text all you need to do is be selective and quote out of context.

    All religions are the same be nice to each other, be a bit less nice to unbelievers / watch yourself with them as they are sinners , protect yourself in war.
    Do you want Britain to be about Britain ?

    Premier Icon JCL
    Free Member

    Christian apologist? Hell no! It’s all insanity that should have died out hundreds of years ago. Or at least when On the Origin of Species was published.

    You see I’ve seen those quotes interpreted a number of different ways depending on the person reading them and their intentions. Wasn’t the second one used in a speech post 9/11 by Bin Laden?

    It’s all pathetically embarrassing to me that humans (let alone entire nations of them) follow religious texts. To me there is no such thing as someone who’s moderately delusional. The argument that such texts should be tolerated because they are “holy” and only extremists will use them for evil means is the same as the gun argument. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people so they say. Possibly but I suspect an intelligent society would probably remove the guns from the equation.

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Free Member

    The comment regarding breeding is FACT (in Canada at least). Might be something to do with having subservient women with no lives apart from child rearing?

    I wonder how many people on here had stay-at-home mothers? My mother didn’t have a paid job outside the home, but I certainly don’t consider her a “subservient wom[a]n” – what makes you think all Muslim women are the same?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    JCL – Member

    You see I’ve seen those quotes interpreted a number of different ways depending on the person reading them and their intentions.

    If anyone on here still had a functioning ironymeter, it just exploded.

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Free Member

    what makes you think all Muslim women are the same?

    It’s a wild stab in the dark, but I’m going to say, prejudice.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    Guns don’t kill people, people kill people so they say.

    I’m reliably informed, by a bbc 2 investigation, that it’s rappers commiting these gun murders.

    Premier Icon crankboy
    Free Member

    JCL I take it you don’t actually know any Muslims and particularly any female Muslims.

    Premier Icon Junkyard
    Free Member

    How could he they are all locked up at home under the yoke of their sexist masters and unable to speak to anyone without permission

    Premier Icon CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    I’m reliably informed, by a bbc 2 investigation, that it’s rappers commiting these gun murders.

    #GLC

    😀

    Premier Icon batfink
    Full Member

    this thread is so full of confused.

Viewing 29 posts - 41 through 69 (of 69 total)

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