Racism at work…

Hello all, I don’t often post as I find this place quite hostile when I’ve asked questions (well from some) BUT there is often some good advice too. With all that is currently going on around the UK it may just be me but have people become happier to show their racist views. It certainly seems the case at my workplace, I was told that I was both narrow minded and part of the “problem” when stated that attacking asylum seekers and immigrant groups was wrong and that any grievance whether well founded or not should be directed at governments as they wield the power to change things. To say I was shocked was an understatement!. I can’t really put it together that I’m narrow minded, I didn’t even suggest that there were no immigration issues. I was shown the government website showing what you get as an asylum seeker and that was why the winter fuel payments have stopped as an example. I could do with some help with being able to shut down some of the nonsense around the likes of Elon and Tommy robinson ( one or two at work have them on twitter!). I don’t want to start a fight but I feel like a bit of a lone voice of moderate reason and could do with at least some direction to properly fact checked info on both the key agitators and the arguments that are used. I know that that comes across as bit lazy but it’s a minefield out there when you start to look and to honest I don’t want to give the nastier sites the traffic count. Any help would be appreciated.

**** em. And get on with your life.

Or leave and get a job where your not surrounded by ****!

If you want to make the case against racism I would suggest listening to the 8 minute recording of Darren from Reading on LBC.

And if you are feeling lonely in a pro-far right riot environment remind yourself that according to a recent YouGov poll only 7% of the population sympathize with them. You are not alone

The Overton window has moved, at least a bit, at least in some circles. It’s more accepted to say things people would previously be keeping to themselves for fear of being branded an idiot. Because other people are doing it unchallenged in some circles it becomes seen as ok, and different others are saying even more outlandish things so your thing doesn’t seem so bad anymore.

Obviously depends on your workplace, but in the cosy world of woke, tofu eating, Guardian reading civil servants, I would report anyone expressing racist views as it breaches our internal rules.

I’m pretty sure who it might be who will cross the line first, sadly.

I work in Accrington – one of the now dead former Northern mill towns, surprisingly there doesn’t seem to be any racism in the company but I think it’s because it’s an international group of companies and has a long standing workforce with a wide mix of nationalities including Uganda, Ghana, most of the East European countries etc.

Its a good mix with a lot of socialising outside of work and is the better for it.

Don’t see it in my current job, as we’re pretty wide spectrum and any sniff of something like this, and the perpetrator is out the door.

In previous jobs and circles, it’s different, always found a difference between being an industrial and non-industrial quite weird for this, along with the other -ism’s, you just have to have your work life, and your personal life, avoid idiots, they’re all around us, and just waste your limited time on this planet, this guy summed it up perfectly.

“Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”

 that was why the winter fuel payments have stopped

How much taxpayer money did the Tories waste on Rwanda plans? About £400 million. More than enough to cover the payments to the 130k affected. But that’s pig wrestling.. No-one gets far arguing with people like that because it’s not about reason, they’re not going to change their minds?

I don’t want to leave for lots of reasons, I don’t think I can change them but I do think I can at least get them think a bit more about where they should be looking when it comes to these issues. For a lot of them they are simply never challenged on this kind thing and so they don’t open themselves to debate ( not trying to make it sound too grandiose!!). In their opinion they are correct and that’s it. It may be like reasoning with a flat earther but I can at least try to get them to consider that there is an opposing and valid point of view.

The problem with the winter fuel payment is that ALL pensioners got it, regardless of personal wealth, and even if they live on the south coast of Spain, so there is a huge waste of public money there.

Typically it sounds like it’s gone too far the other way and only people on pension credits or other benefits will qualify, and those with full state pension contributions and a tiny/insignificant private pension will lose out.

No-one gets far arguing with people like that because it’s not about reason, they’re not going to change their minds?

100% correct, couple of lads I work with (1 of them went to a ‘protest march’ last weekend and loved every second) who’ve never bothered to try n hide their views have literally talked about nothing else all week, constant commentary of the latest Twitter/X posts and vids and getting properly sick of hearing it now. Basically EVERYTHING that’s  wrong in the UK these days is because of immigrants/foreigners and Tommy Robinson is the only one with the balls to stand up and tell the truth

Complete waste of time trying to argue or reason with them

Challenge it with love and humanity. I shut my christian dad up when he was talking about immigration with “but thats not what Jesus would do is it?”

So arguments along the lines of “they are just human beings, with families, trying to survive in world that has dealt them a bad deal” followed by “try and have some compassion and hold onto less hate” work a lot better than trying to debate facts or countering misinformation.

Then report them to HR and get them sacked.

I too don’t see it in my current job (or of the past 30 years to be honest).

I’ve variously worked in a nationalised co (BR) and British owned, North American owned, and German owned companies.  But maybe, as per other replies, in in a well educated professional company, working on multi-national projects, with customers and colleagues from many countries.  Similarly you can be sure most if not all we’re ‘remain’ voting for the same reasons of NOT being narrow minded / parochial / bigoted or just plain **** stupid.

What would I do ?  I’d absolutely take them to task for being narrow minded racist **** themselves.  Because if nobody puts them straight, this racist bollox continues to grow.  And I’d make it exceptionally clear that they are fuckwhits for listening to the self serving **** like Faridge or ****-face-not-really-Tom-at all (point out that those 2 ‘patriotic’ **** actually have foreign passports and citizenship- they’re aren’t even properly British.)

(And clearly you think it’s wrong by rhe fact you’ve raised it here).

Where I work diversity and inclusion are key company values, so that coupled with a global workforce, means you’d get called out pretty quickly espousing any right-wing views at work. Given the size of the company, and its diversity of employees however, I’m under no illusions that there will be a substantial number who hold racist, sexist, or some other ist views, but they keep them to themselves. We have good, anonymous mechanisms for reporting issues as well.

Mind you, I also subscribe to the principle that religion and politics shouldn’t be discussed at work so I stay out of conversations anyway.

I’m not agreeing with them, but-
“So arguments along the lines of “they are just human beings, with families”

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are single men.

If it was nearly all families, there may be more compassion.

 I don’t think I can change them but I do think I can at least get them think a bit more about where they should be looking when it comes to these issues.

It will have taken them years to have reached their bigoted opinions so no they won’t change their minds because of what some geezer at work says to them.

I definitely wouldn’t engage in pointless conversation with them but I would make comments in response to individual claims they might make. Racists invariably make daft and highly contradictory claims, the whole concept of racism is daft after all.

I would just concentrate on that and not engage further. Making themselves look stupid is very easy for racists especially when there is a sensible person to help them. That is more likely to silence them than any deep discussion that you might have with them.

Years ago I hit a man with a frozen chicken for being racist. Made me feel better and him feel concussed and no longer Mr Billy Big Bollocks. Had to leave the job as a result. The manager didn’t want to sack me so I offered to leave and the dickhead got sacked. I wouldn’t recommend this approach in the modern working environment. I’d just chat to their line manager or HR. No point trying to reason with idiots unless there’s a frozen chicken in striking distance!

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are single men.

I am not sure that you are following recent events. The current rioting isn’t about illegal immigrants. They now specifically targeting lawyers and government provided immigration and refugee centres, which by definition means that they are targeting the legal process.

Own him with a frozen halal chicken then?

They won’t understand this but still…

A frozen imported halal chicken

If you can find some way to produce it from a small dinghy before twatting him, even better.

Would not work in my team. We span the globe with many people not in their country of birth. We have a Polish lawer living in Spain, an Indian manager living in the US, in fact thinking about it we actually don’t have more than a couple of people in any one country in a team of 26. Time zone wise it makes calls a nightmare but it’s a fantastic diverse team.

Not sure what I would do in the OPs situation, I like to think I would call it out but the reality is I don’t know if I would be brave enough.

Years ago I hit a man with a frozen chicken for being racist

I think we need more details here. Were you all out of frozen sausages/did they not have a lawn?

They won’t understand this but still…

I love Stewart Lee…wish I’d have thought about this yesterdat!! It would have been a great parting shot before I had to delete yet another facebook ‘friend’!!

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are single men.

Which illegal immigrants are you referring to?  Those who have overstayed their visas for example?

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are single men.
Which illegal immigrants are you referring to? Those who have overstayed their visas for example?

No idea, I’d presume the anger is directed toward the people who come on the boats to Dover, who are mostly single men.

I’m not agreeing with them, but

“So arguments along the lines of “they are just human beings, with families”

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are single men.

If it was nearly all families, there may be more compassion.

Quite apart from the inaccurate “illegal immigrant” label, the demographics changed post-Brexit when the ONLY way to get here was made as arduous and dangerous as possible – when you didn’t have to cross the channel in a boat to get here, almost half of asylum seekers were women and children. It’s now mostly men leaving their families to come here first on their own because we made it that way.

No idea, I’d presume the anger is directed toward the people who come on the boats to Dover, who are mostly single men.

Mrs Pondo is currently on holiday so I’m temporarily on my own – that doesn’t make me a “single man”.

…stated that attacking asylum seekers and immigrant groups was wrong and that any grievance whether well founded or not should be directed at governments as they wield the power to change things

Wow, you get into some deep convos at work. What a waste of breath. We just talk about whether we’ve seen Deadpool & Wolverine, or whether someone rebooted a server last night.

Wow, you get into some deep convos at work.

And in some cases thats a good and a bad thing.

I used to work for one of the countries largest Building Engineering companies at their Head Office. Every single employee was white British. There was no open racism, or poor culture. Someone employed a young Asian girl, again no comments, but lots of staring lots of odd behaviour around her. She was there about a month before she left, I assume she left of her own accord as no one spoke to her and it was clearly she was ostracised.

I do however think it is good to talk about difference and culture in the work place, that way you all begin to understand each other, but I do completely avoid politics/ the politics of race. Racism in the work place is very difficult to deal with. If its a good company racists tend to not be there as they wont fit the culture. If racism is discussed a lot thats a warning sign for me to get out as its ingrained in the organisation and its culture

To respond to the OP’s original request, just Google what they say and see what the responses are – key here is to understand the providence of the results.

A good rule of thumb is if it’s from somewhere like The Guardian etc, you probably can trust the answer – but if unsure, look beyond the first few results.

Wikipedia while written by you & I has enough readers & responders to be pretty reliable – but again xref against other results.

Then challenge, with facts.

Report them.

who are mostly single men

Reason;

Either a war torn country, or one with a giant % of unemployment. In your family(not you or yours actually because i know you arent subscribing to this nonsense)

So in the family who is going to take the risks of moving abroad to better their position, or to escape war/turmoil etc.

Send your daughter ?

Send your grandmother ?

An ageing parent ?

Or your son, who is in his 20’s(or a bit younger)

OP.

This falls under Rule 4.

“Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”

Mrs Pondo is currently on holiday so I’m temporarily on my own – that doesn’t make me a “single man”.

It could do, missed opportunity…

This is not a fight you’re going to win. As someone married to an immigrant (albeit a white, English speaking one), and who has worked on construction sites, this sort of topic has come up a lot. I have told plant operators that they will have to leave the site if they make any more racist comments, but you’re obviously not in that position of power.

You can present these people with facts, counter arguments and whatever else but you won’t change their mind.

The best thing to do is make it clear what they’re saying is unacceptable. The best way to do that would probably be to go to management and say “with all the riots and stuff that’s going on at the moment, a few people have started making racist comments. Please can you make it clear this isn’t acceptable in the workplace?” An all staff email, or signs up around the place, saying that discriminatory comments are not acceptable and anyone making them will be disciplined, will have more effect in at least showing them what they’re saying isn’t OK than you arguing with them.

No idea, I’d presume the anger is directed toward the people who come on the boats to Dover, who are mostly single men.

Which ones are illegal immigrants versus asylum seekers who are legally allowed to claim asylum (of which 70%+ are successful).

You would need to somehow be able to tell which people are going to claim asylum or not and more so which will be successful or not before making any determination on someone being illegally in the country.

Oddly I do feel for employers with this at the moment. Like it or not 14% of voters voted reform last month. And Farage no matter how much you loath the odious ****er, he’s a clever odious ****er. He’s found a linguistic way, a dog whistle way, to talk in the racist themes not far short of the EDL and the National Front that is not illegal and now being repeated by his ‘sheeple’ (always nice to repurpose a phrase). As an employer, even one with a good attitude to racism, it’s going to be damn hard to define the line between spouting the rhetoric of a legitimate political party and outright racist speech that  finds the offender out the door.

Fun times we live in.

You could suggest they watch the film The Swimmers, which does give an insight into why people chose to leave their original country for somewhere else – of course it may go over their heads. As a father to daughters I found it a difficult watch at times.