quick software q from spanner monkey

if you wanted to use a windows tablet to run a piece of equipment is there anything to stop you just installing your own GUI which will take advantage of all the wizzy windows 8, 8.1 and 10 graphical features, without having to go through microsoft ( ie the metro store ) – just doing ( what to my mind is ) a ‘regular install’?

When you say GUI? Which do you mean

it’s a bespoke thing to run in windows. we have software wranglers. at the moment the message we’re getting is that windows 8 and above is too hard, mainly i think cos they want to go android, but there are good reasons for going windows IMO.

Are you talking about writing your own software?

If so, then yes.. the graphical environment (windows, MacOs, whatever) has programming libraries that draw the windows, buttons, menus and whatnot. However this has always been annoyingly difficult in Windows and there have been many many attempts made at making it easy. Most do, but none really took off exclusively. Using the Windows libraries woud make it a ‘native’ Windows application.

There are things like Visual Basic that make it easy to do GUIs but still give you access to the Windows operating system stuff, which you might need to access whatever hardware you want to use. As for Metro, this probably does the same thing but I don’t know anything about it.

There are other options – Java springs to mind – it’s easier and you’re more likely to find Java GUI programmers, but it’s trickier to interface with device drivers in Windows.

I suspect the reason they are complaining is that they don’t have the skills in Windows development (not very common these days).

The solution you need rather depends on what your hardware is and how you’re supposed to interface with it.

PS android is not an alternative to Windows – totally different things.

hmm. clearly i don’t understand the android/windows relationship then.
edit : sorry – just re-read your responses. yes, our GUI runs under windows in its own window./edit
we already have GUI, in various versions that run on win 7, xp, 2000, NT, DOS.
this includes aspects of realtime control over rs-232 interacting with bespoke embedded controllers, IP on cameras, yadayada. not our first rodeo at this. i’m effectively an end user to the equipment we make, part of my role being to develop the interaction between all these various bits and bobs to make sure it all plays nicely and the kit does what people want. i’m trying to make sure we move in the right direction. previously we just ran an install of our in house GUI using the add/remove programs for the windows component + the necessary drivers for cameras etc.
what i have been told is that you can install software developed for win7 under 8 no problem, but it’s still basically win 7 code. we ( I ) want to take advantage of the wizzy touch-screen features of the win 8 interface – so ‘proper’ win 8 code required. however the suggestion has been made that the way to do this is to submit any build of our GUI to MS and have it go through the approvals process?

Sounds about right. Metro apps come from the MS ‘store’.

hmm. clearly i don’t understand the android/windows relationship then.

There isn’t a relationship.

Windows is an operating system for PCs – it manages memory, CPUs, disks, applications and provides a GUI to allow you to interact with it nicely. Android is the same thing but it’s used on tablets and phones, and is designed to suit them. Your developers can’t “go android” unless they make an app that runs on tablets and phones.

What you want is a way to develop an app that doesn’t go through the Windows store. Let me google.. ah yes:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/apps/jj657971.aspx

“If you’re writing a proprietary line-of-business app, it’s likely that you want to deploy it yourself within your company—a process called enterprise sideloading. Sideloaded apps do not need to be published to the Windows Store, and they can be developed without using a registered Windows Store developer account.”

submit any build of our GUI to MS and have it go through the approvals process?

I believe you can get around this, as they have separate app store support for businesses to do their own thing etc.

Sounds like you’re talking about modern UI (used to be metro) apps and if you can install them without going via the windows store? To which I don’t know, but *maybe*. I do think they’re sandboxed though which might be the real issue.

However, why not speak to your tech folks on the phone rather than ask STW? Sounds like they might know better…and if they don’t know how to do what you want, you probably can’t have it anyways?

There isn’t a relationship.

Windows is an operating system for PCs – it manages memory, CPUs, disks, applications and provides a GUI to allow you to interact with it nicely. Android is the same thing but it’s used on tablets and phones, and is designed to suit them. Your developers can’t “go android” unless they make an app that runs on tablets and phones.

yes, i understand that, though i obviously didn’t make myself clear.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/windows/apps/jj657971.aspx

“If you’re writing a proprietary line-of-business app, it’s likely that you want to deploy it yourself within your company—a process called enterprise sideloading. Sideloaded apps do not need to be published to the Windows Store, and they can be developed without using a registered Windows Store developer account.”

and i think i read that last time this topic of discussion came up 🙂 I’ll take another look at it and see if i can get my tiny head around it.
appreciate your response.

However, why not speak to your tech folks on the phone rather than ask STW?

even easier to shout at him 6ft away. 🙂 believe it or not i do trust him and think he’s good at what he does, i’m just trying to make sure i have my head around whatever the limitations might be and the reasons for them, and i don’t want to have to keep going back to him like a 4-year old saying ‘but why?’ all the time. that’s what you guys are for 😉

thanks for your time chaps.

ah, no i hadn’t seen that article after all. thanks molgrips.

You could always just write your app with a js front end and php back end 😈

for something like that, and assuming it runs on laptops now, I’d be thinking about running on a laptop tablet PC (ie what used to be called a tablet PC, which is a laptop with a touch screen that could swivel and fold flat the wrong way, before ipad type tablets stole that word).

RS232 from a windows mobile, android or ios might be fun. will at least need usb-serial adaptery thing, and tablet that allows it (some androids do, others need a hack, ios probably not, windows – who knows).

edit: or seeing the previous post…
something running chrome and remote desktop

yeah, we’re running an ftdi usb > serial adaptor now, no bother. as you might imagine the rs-232 is legacy anyway. we already have usb on board, it’s just not yet implemented.
i’m looking from the simplistic POV of someone who has a terminal window running, talking to the kit, doing what i need to do, just need it made looking nice to sell to people, and need that doing in the way that makes the most sense for us.
software guy wants to do android and the metro store thing is one snag he’s flagged up as a reason not to do windows. i’m looking at it thinking that the bigger stuff we make will probably continue to be run on desktops or laptops for the foreseeable, so any development we do for windows tablet will be applicable to that further down the line. i don’t want us to have to support different OS if i can avoid it ( though i’m aware that tablet windows is not the same thing as desktop, it’s close enough for me )

FWIW I’ve written software using the method I suggested above which controls a robot arm. The advantage being that you can control it from anything on your private WiFi (works well with an iPad). Could easily use the same method to connect to something via RS232 (I’ve done quite a lot of interfacing to management software and writing front end GUIs for kit with legacy hardware interfaces – the deep joy of coding in managed C++). Connecting to RS232 is trivial, as you suggest am FTDI adapter or something similar – though mostly recently when doing that I’ve been working with boards which have onboard serial interfaces.

Edit: not got time to do it now, but if anybody is interested, when I do have in a week or so I could set up a webcam and open a port in the router and let people control the arm over the net 😉

Some android devices can only be USB client, rathern than server, no? As in, they’re the thing you access via USB, not the thing that does the accessing (like a PC is).

Could be wrong but I can’t offhand think of one that behaves as a USB “server” at all, they’re all client devices I think? (This is why you need OTG cables for external media, you’re connecting two clients together.)

every device is different, many (most?) aren’t even documented.
even then, you probably need to install driver and/or use a USB OTG adaptor and/or root the phone.
and probably all devices are multiformat via that USB connector, with all manner of maintenance ports, but nothing beyond USB charging and USB client documented.

something you can hack on your own phone/tablet, but certainly can’t sell.

to me it sounds like a total software rewrite, although if it were Java, then it’s certainly possible to write a new Android app (maybe IOS and Windows mobile allow Java too?) and link in to original code, but my experience of doing that ended up being a complete refactor of the original code (which was a good thing, since it made the back end portable with several GUI front ends).
PS I loathe Java, but it does have its uses sometimes.

well, that’s another topic. tablet acting as ‘master’ can’t charge from the device it’s talking to via the usb…

There’s no need for your ‘app’ to be a full on Metro rewrite. As long as the gui is touch friendly (big buttons; etc..) then just install it; and use it. Just stay away from ARM based windows tablets which can’t run ‘full fat’ windows applications. Though I’m not sure you can still buy any ARM based windows tablets anymore.

Easiest thing would be to get a touch enabled laptop; ignore the keyboard (or get one that folds back on itself as suggested above) and give it a try and see how it works.

‘master’

Ah yeah that’s what I meant.. master/slave not client/server.