Public Sector and their pensions

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  • Public Sector and their pensions
  • Evening folks,

    I’m not bumping, trolling or whatever the latest lingo is on the old internet! I’m just interested in peoples opinion….

    I had a guy approach me the other day asking me to sign his petition about his statutory pention contributions rising. I had a chat with him and the more i let him speak the more i couldnt help to a certain extent disagree with him.

    In essence he is being made to contribute more to his pot to allow the government to make up the difference. Fine, i understand thats how it works and wants what he’s promised. No problem with that.

    Then he started telling me about all the hours he works (50 hours) with weekends and nights included. He asked me how i felt about that and if i had any sympathy for him. I told him ‘no’….. My answer was you knew the deal when you signed up, so why now is it such a big deal??

    He asked me what i work….37.5 contract….its more like 50 and i dont get paid for the OT, its just expected rightly or wrongly. Then he said weekends, what do you work….5 on the run paid, but never the less 5 weeks on the bounce is a long time i told him.

    He then went on about his pension about how its not fair and he shouldnt be expected to pay the difference. At this point i was really quite confused, i said ‘hang on to get a final salary pension at 50 i will need after ive paid my mortgage, put the kids through school, lived, i would need to find about 1.5 million pound to have in a pension pot’. I explained that if my pension didnt perform thats it tough sh1t, i need to deal with it and cover as best as i can’.

    He said, you shouldnt compare public and private sector pension and that i should show him some sympathy and support….. I’m sorry i just dont have any when retirement for people like me is going to be a slog to reach anything like a final salary. Its a shame, but surely these people are now in the ‘real’ world where investments dont always go to plan.

    Does anyone feel like that or did i just catch someone who rubbed me up the wrong way??

    Its bothered me all afternoon as to how hard done by he felt he was….

    Cheers STW!

    clubber
    Member

    oh god, no!

    just look up TandemJeremy and half the threads he’s been on to save having yet another unproductive discussion on this.

    Premier Icon easygirl
    Subscriber

    dont expect any sympathy from anyone regarding my pension
    i pay 11% of my salary to my pension and have done for 22 years, the government have now decided i need to pay 14%
    ok, not good, but along with the pay freeze ive agreed to ill pay the extra 3%.
    Then they decide that the pension is too expensive, so they will change the conditions and make me work another 5 years for the same benefit
    wooooaahhhh, hang on a minute, ive planned my pension and finances on the fact that i work a agreed period of time for an agreed pension. I think its unfair to start changing those conditions and expect us to take it on the chin.
    Can you spare a £5

    I’ve missed all that, i’ll have a look!

    Can i spare a fiver??? You must be having a laugh!! Ive got school fees and a SIPP to top up….eggs in one basket and all that! 🙂

    Ho hum
    Member

    It’s all me, me, me nowadays, eh!

    Pensions are something that we have been lied to through the years. Governments can no longer afford to carry the investment risk.

    With life expectancy continuing to rise and investment returns looking like they will take a tumble as global economic growth splutters as a result of crisis after crisis, pensions are looking more and more unaffordable for the provider.

    We can all greet and moan about it, but the economics no longer stack up.

    Premier Icon totalshell
    Subscriber

    frankly if i make it to 68 i’ll be overjoyed.. i ‘d much rather be alive and scrapping by than have a fantastic pension but not see anything of it..

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    I and my colleague had to carry a load of gear to a patient through thick clay mud to reach a casualty on Sunday. It was about a mile or so from the nearest access point, I then had to stay and treat the patient in snowy conditions at temps of about only about 3C whilst my colleague liaised with another crew. Luckily the person fell at the point right next to a dual carriage way flyover, we found this out when we for there, and the lane she was closest to was closed for repairs. So we got the other crew to drive the wrong direction up there to get near the casualty. We still had to carry her on a stretcher for about 200 metres through slippery mud and lift her over a 3′ high fence.

    Now I’m still relatively fit and young, as I currently stand I can retire at about 58 with a reasonable pension after 42 years of service. The changes mean I’ll be working at least until I’m 68 maybe more by then and for slightly less money. I can’t see me be able to do the job much past 60 never mind 68 and no it’s not what I signed up for.

    Premier Icon PePPeR
    Subscriber

    What ever happened to the utopian dream of us all having wonderful lives with early retirement and loads of leisure time I was told would happen when I was at school?

    Anyway what’s a pension plan again?

    Haha yes PePPeR and investing in the banks was always a safe bet!

    Ho hum
    Member

    Anyone who spends their whole working careers with one employer to retirement age in this day and age is going to have seen their terms and conditions changed significantly over time.

    uselesshippy
    Member

    No point arguing.
    Everybodys f……..

    deepreddave
    Member

    Thing is the public sector it’s different to the private sector and not wholly comparable on every point. Better on some, worse on others. I think the main objection is the blatant misinformation put out about the old and new pension scheme proposed and the opportunistic nature of the changes when financially the majority of savings come from the rpi to cpi enforced change currently being challenged in the courts. The latter equates to c20% reduction from the previous pension paid into based on the rpi factor. Surely anybody would object to that when the Hutton report confirmed the cost of the public sector pensions were falling in the long term. Paid weekends? Yes please….. Not 5 on the bounce tho 🙂

    AndyP
    Member

    Does anyone feel like that
    Yes, me. I work with a bunch of said moaners. Whine, whine, it’s not fair, let’s go on strike. Sod what it says in my contract about ‘plus whatever hours are necessary to fulfill your responsibilities’. It’s called a lunch hour and I’m having all 3600 seconds of it and I’m coming in late because the bus route has a diversion and the earlier bus is just too early.
    Bollocks. Look elsewhere if you’re not happy. I left the private sector for the public not because of some incredible financial incentives but because the job meant that I could have plenty of job satisfaction and have more of a life outside work. (let’s face it, final salary pensions sound nice, but you have to remember that they’re calculated from a public sector salary. X% of not very much = not very much).
    If you don’t like it, look elsewhere. Things change. So what? Change with them, or don’t. But don’t expect others to support your views.

    Premier Icon dropoff
    Subscriber

    What is this pension thing of which you speak ?

    gusamc
    Member

    let’s face it, final salary pensions sound nice, but you have to remember that they’re calculated from a public sector salary. X% of more than a public sector salary is MUCH better than a private sector pension.

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171766_252474.pdf

    Public and private sector earnings
    The difference between private and public sector median earnings for full-time employees
    decreased between April 2010 and April 2011. Private sector median gross weekly earnings were
    £476, up 0.8 per cent from 2010. Public sector earnings were £556, up 0.3 per cent (see Figure 10).
    Public sector mean gross weekly earnings (£627) were also higher than those of the private sector
    (£598).

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    At least we have some nice safe, trustworthy banks to invest our money in….

    It is not about retiring earlier. It is about retiring when previously AGREED.

    It is not about not paying more. It is about paying what was previously AGREED.

    It is not about getting less pension. It is about paying what was previously AGREED.

    My pension scheme (STSS) was reformed in 2007, and the aim was to make it sustainable for the lifetimes of all members. I have yet to see any evidence that it is now NOT sustainable in it’s current form. The Government REFUSE to discuss any of their calculations or show any costed workings.

    Until they do I will continue to regard the proposed changes as a blatant tax grab aimed disproportionally at the public sector.

    crikey
    Member

    You all had the choice.
    You could have been a public servant.
    You could have had a poor wage.
    You could have had a decent pension.
    You chose not to.
    You chose to work in the private sector.
    You let your pension be crap.

    The difference is that public sector pensions are there for the taking, there for politicians and the right wing cockmonkeys to abuse and destroy, there for you to exercise the politics of envy.

    I’ve said it before and will no doubt say it again, but I am amazed that this country and the stupid ignorant people that populate it can begrudge the pension that I have worked for; who would have thought, 20 years on, that the pension of a nurse would create such jealousy?

    b r
    Member

    wooooaahhhh, hang on a minute, ive planned my pension and finances on the fact that i work a agreed period of time for an agreed pension. I think its unfair to start changing those conditions and expect us to take it on the chin.

    and I planned my pensions around well paid work always been available…, 5h1t happens

    gusamc
    Member

    You could have had a poor wage. – The facts below seem to suggest that to have a poor wage you’d stand a better chance in the private sector.

    Public and private sector earnings
    The difference between private and public sector median earnings for full-time employees
    decreased between April 2010 and April 2011. Private sector median gross weekly earnings were
    £476, up 0.8 per cent from 2010. Public sector earnings were £556, up 0.3 per cent (see Figure 10).
    Public sector mean gross weekly earnings (£627) were also higher than those of the private sector
    (£598).

    crikey
    Member

    You could have had a poor wage.

    I’ve been doing my job for 25 years, and have become better every year as a result. Look at wages over the last 25 years if you wish to make that comparision; or decide if you would like to be looked after by someone who has no experience or 25 years worth.

    If you end up in Intensive Care, what would you choose?

    There is cost and there is value, what do you think the difference is?

    Ho hum
    Member

    crikey – Member
    You all had the choice.
    You could have been a public servant.
    You could have had a poor wage.
    You could have had a decent pension.
    You chose not to.
    You chose to work in the private sector.
    You let your pension be crap.

    The difference is that public sector pensions are there for the taking, there for politicians and the right wing cockmonkeys to abuse and destroy, there for you to exercise the politics of envy.

    I’ve said it before and will no doubt say it again, but I am amazed that this country and the stupid ignorant people that populate it can begrudge the pension that I have worked for; who would have thought, 20 years on, that the pension of a nurse would create such jealousy?

    No-one is begrudging you a pension.

    It’s just the way that it will be calculated will have to change to reflect the increase in life expectancy, the fiscal state of this country and its realistic economic growth prospects.

    Crikey, theres no jealousy involved whatsoever on my part. Just confusion as to why the disconnect between what people ‘think’ they are entitled to and the reality of the situation. Its tough, theres not enough in the pot, times change and like someone said on here…if you really dont like it that much, move and do your own thing.

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    Yep I planned my final salary pension arrangements as well some years ago and my career path that would allow me to retire in my late fifties still being sane enough to enjoy my retirement.

    Unfortunately working in the private sector there is no safety net. I was made redundant from that cosy ‘job for life’ and have been made redundant from two subsequent jobs and had been made redundant before getting my cosy planned for the rest of my life job, has coloured my view of the working world.

    I’d love to have been able to stay with the same employer and quibble over the evolution of my terms and conditions as the world changed, I haven’t had that luxury so my sympathy levels for those who have isn’t very great.

    Premier Icon billyboy
    Subscriber

    A deal is a deal.

    crikey
    Member

    Meh.

    Private sector pensions have been well and truly dicked over, largely by private sector financial types; that is where the problem lies. The answer is not to drag us all down to the level of the lowest common denominator, it is for those in the private sector to make some noise, to protest, to withold their labour. This would, of course make you some kind of anti-capitalist scum in the eyes of your beloved right wing media and so will never happen.

    So you follow, like sheep, and look to criticise the pensions of those who chose, that’s chose, to work for lower wages, that’s lower wages, for the good, that’s for the good, of your fellow citizens.

    Whatever. You get the public services you deserve.

    Is there really not enough in the pot though? I do think that this may be the case for SOME public sector schemes – I don’t want to get involved in pointing any fingers here though – but due to our recent restructuring I cannot see how this is the case for the STSS.

    The current plan is a one size fits all approach for a range of schemes that vary considerably. If the truth was told, I think we’d find that some schemes are funded, and some will struggle. There is a considerable demographic variation across the myriad of schemes.

    Premier Icon billyboy
    Subscriber

    I’m unlucky so I want everyone else to be unlucky too!!!!!!!

    thomthumb
    Member

    let’s have a race, to the bottom 🙄

    Premier Icon bratty
    Subscriber

    2 observations –

    1. It is as if the government are trying to drag down pensions to a lower level – they should be trying to come up with ways to encourage the private sector to offer decent pensions to match the public sector. The problem is that if you save more, then there is less money going into the economy and boosting growth etc. Not going to help consumer spending is it?
    2. The press – esp the Torygraph etc – keep pointing out all these sky high public pensions by using examples of senior civil servants on 100k plus. They do not point out what average nursing or admin staff are earning and getting for a pension. There are plenty of private sector examples of people being paid too much, but the ‘fat cat civil servants’ are easier prey…

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    it is for those in the private sector to make some noise, to protest, to withold their labour.

    That’ll work right up to the point they relocate the manufacturing plant abroad……

    The world doesn’t work the way many of us would like it to, however we have to deal with the realities which is the main difference between the private and public sectors.

    CaptJon
    Member

    In essence he is being made to contribute more to his pot to allow the government to make up the difference. Fine, i understand thats how it works and wants what he’s promised. No problem with that.

    Then he started telling me about all the hours he works (50 hours) with weekends and nights included. He asked me how i felt about that and if i had any sympathy for him. I told him ‘no’….. My answer was you knew the deal when you signed up, so why now is it such a big deal??

    because part of the deal is being changed. Renumeration is going down, but hours and conditions remain the same. The the former happens the latter is thrown into stark relief, particularly if changes aren’t handled very well.

    El-bent
    Member

    hat’ll work right up to the point they relocate the manufacturing plant abroad……

    Ah, the threat. Perhaps we should stop being so fast and loose with the employment laws.

    right wing cockmonkeys

    😆

    Ho hum
    Member

    TroutWrestler – Member
    Is there really not enough in the pot though? I do think that this may be the case for SOME public sector schemes – I don’t want to get involved in pointing any fingers here though – but due to our recent restructuring I cannot see how this is the case for the STSS.

    The current plan is a one size fits all approach for a range of schemes that vary considerably. If the truth was told, I think we’d find that some schemes are funded, and some will struggle. There is a considerable demographic variation across the myriad of schemes.

    I had read that some are well funded and others are not funded at all.

    It makes me wonder how things have evolved so differently for different department/areas of the public sector 😕

    CaptJon
    Member

    Because the public sector is hugely diverse.

    Ho hum
    Member

    CaptJon – Member
    Because the public sector is hugely diverse.

    And maybe some people realised that the cost of DB pensions was huge and needed to start setting aside some money to pay for them?

    b r
    Member

    Ah, the threat. Perhaps we should stop being so fast and loose with the employment laws.

    Well it’s you poxy public sector lot who’ve administered these laws, to the disregard of the private sector workers basic ‘rights’!

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Ferris-Beuller – Member

    My answer was you knew the deal when you signed up, so why now is it such a big deal??

    Answering your own question aren’t you- as you say they knew the deal, now the deal’s being changed on them.

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