Property boundary question

We moved in to our current home 3 years ago and have always thought that the neighbours had grabbed a bit of land that is actually ours (there is a hedge that divides our properties to the side of our drive.

Although I have often thought about speaking to them about it (they simply may not be aware that it is actually ours) I hadn’t really got too fussed about it.

However, I got speaking to my neighbour last week and he mentioned that he was looking at hard-landscaping it all (ie, rip out the hedge and bung in paving which I am not too keen on) so I decided to check with Land Registry and I am correct – a strip of land about 20 feet long by about 2 feet deep that they are treating as theirs is actually ours.

Given that we are on pretty good terms with them, what advice could anyone give me on approaching this in a way that doesn’t have me come across as a bit of an ass.

One last thing – our drive is a little bit of a squeeze to get two cars in side by side so this extra bit of space would actually be very useful for us.

Cheers

0/10

Too obvious.

🙂

Hah, no – not related to that other thread, but it did remind me to do the searches on LR and ask the question on here 🙂

How long have they been using the land?

Just cut the hedge to suit. Best leave it until the neighbour is at work. Report back please.

damn – too slow and not even connected…..

Just go round with the deeds and discuss it. Like you said – they might be unaware as that was how the land appeared to be used when they bought the house.

How long have they been using the land?

They moved in a year or so before we did, beyond that I don’t know (ie, I/they couldn’t prove it was being used before then).

Edit – 31 May 2012 is when they moved in.

Hopefully they haven’t put in a claim for adverse rights.

have always thought that the neighbours had grabbed a bit of land that is actually ours (there is a hedge that divides our properties to the side of our drive.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Is the hedge too far over? Or is it their hedge on your land?

Breenge in, rip up what ever hedge/fence is on you land, install own fence on boundary.

Bout the only sensible way to keep the peace that I can see here!

From what I know, it is our hedge on our land but they soft-scaped it (before we moved in) by putting decorative gravel in it (the same gravel that covers the rest of the front of their house).

The hedge is the same sort of hedge as what was (until we removed it) on the other side of our dive.

Cougar – Moderator
have always thought that the neighbours had grabbed a bit of land that is actually ours (there is a hedge that divides our properties to the side of our drive.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Is the hedge too far over? Or is it their hedge on your land?

Maybe, just doesn’t realise he owns half a hedge? 😆

on the other side of our dive.

Blimey and you still bought it. 😆

it is our hedge on our land but they soft-scaped it

So, what, they cut it back, or there’s a two foot gap between the hedge-edge and the actual boundary? Ie, the hedge is in the wrong place?

Gotta say, a hedge is a bit shit as a property boundary anyway if you’re concerned about two feet of land, you’ve probably already lost more than that to the hedge itself.

Oh – wait, are you saying the neighbour thinks the hedge and the land it’s on is his? Hence him casually suggesting that he might rip out your hedge?

Oh – wait, are you saying the neighbour thinks the hedge and the land it’s on is his? Hence him casually suggesting that he might rip out your hedge?

Yes – from what I understand of what they think, they own the land right up to the edge of our block-paved drive.

If I am correct it does not matter how long they have used it , Land registration was set up so that land stayed with the correct owner, it is your land to do as you well please with. Go and talk nicely and let them know you are going to fence it off on the boundary line to improve your off road parking. End of , if they moan then they are unreasonable as they know exactly what is theirs and what isn`t.

Just tell them that it’s your hedge. End of discussion.

You say you have checked with the land registry have you just looked at the title plan or a transfer deed noted that has measurements on it. If just the former I would suggest you go and look up the LR general boundary rule.

Just got the title plans

The plans are usually pretty vague with thick lines for boundaries so it can be hard to tell. Hopefully its clear. It doesn’t sound like they’ve used it long enough for adverse possession. Don’t think it would count anyway as there are set rules. If you can prove it is yours then the only issue is keeping good neighbourly relations. Everybody needs good neighbours. Them bringing the subject up is handy as you can just mention its yours so you’d rather they didn’t do too much to it.

seems like a fairly simple one without having to even be arsey:

“You know that plan for landscaping you were talking about?”
“Yeah….”
“well, erm, that’s my land”

Then you make sure they see the shotgun you’re carrying and start making plans for a new patio

Everybody needs good neighbours. Them bringing the subject up is handy as you can just mention its yours so you’d rather they didn’t do too much to it.

Yeah I tend to agree that is the way to go as I have nothing to gain by falling out. What we discussed (my wife and me) was mentioning to them that they can do what they want (within reason, and would ask them to confirm beforehand) but in the event of them selling, we’d want it bringing up at the conveyancing stage. I understand the ‘proper’ way to go is to charge a peppercorn rent so there is no ambiguity as to who owns the lans.

Seems overly generous as you’ve already said you could use the extra room to park your cars.

Nooooooo, don’t let them do anything like that. Just no. Your land, nothing at all to do with them. Don’t let them do anything that blurs the boundary.

Complex subject, if they’ve used that land for 12 years unchallenged, you may have lost it….

Adverse Possession in practice
The circumstances in which adverse possession is allowed to occur, and the motives underlying it, in practice vary. At one end of the spectrum there are opportunists who see unused land and decide to settle there with the deliberate intention of staying, if they can, for 12 years, in order to become owners of the land.

At the other end of the spectrum is the situation where there is a dividing wall between the gardens of two properties, A and B. Both A and B assume that they own the land up to the wall and use their land as a garden right up to the wall. If it later transpires that the wall was, many years ago, erected in the wrong place, so that part of A’s land (as shown in his title deeds) was actually on B’s side of the wall, then A will have lost that part of his land, and B will have obtained ownership of it by 12 years adverse possession. In this case B (unlike the opportunist described above) had no intention of acquiring land he did not own – he thought all along that he owned it. He was wrong about that but he ended up owning it in the end by virtue of adverse possession.

Between these two extremes there are cases where someone starts using someone else’s land, knowing that it is someone else’s land but intending just to use it as their own for a long as they can, without necessarily having the motive of eventually getting title. For example someone with a freehold allotment, seeing the neighbouring allotment unused and gathering weeds, may decide to cultivate it for as long as they can, but if they end up doing so for 12 years, they may become the legal owner.

Because the rationale for the 12 year rule is to provide certainty of title for the benefit of innocent third parties, the law generally makes no distinction between different motives for possessing (unregistered) land. In order for someone to gain title by adverse possession they must possess in such a way as to show that they intend to possess but their beliefs about, and intentions as to, ownership as such are generally irrelevant.

http://www.johnantell.co.uk/adverse-possession-of-land

I think you just need to give them permission. Obviously a peppercorn rent gives you a paper trail which could be handy. Friend had a similar issue with some land that was used by everyone in his row. As soon as anyone moved in the landowner would be straight round to say it was his but he was happy for them to use it. He just wanted to keep ownership.

This kind of situation is why when I bought a new house and the builders always leave them without proper fencing to mark boundaries I had one installed within 1st week. Our houses are at an angle and it could easily be misunderstood that the land in between was the neighbours. It wasn’t, he had a path and I had path + land. Its a handy piece of land.

If I am correct it does not matter how long they have used it ,

You’re not.

Surely if you’re going to let them get all that benefit, you’d be getting a rental agreement drawn up by a solicitor (at their expense), stating clearly the conditions upon which the agreement can be terminated.

….or sell them the land.

The worst possibly solution right now is you act the nice guy and they decide to be difficult down the line.

From the Government website apologies if i`m misunderstanding this Drac?

1. Introduction
1.1 The new regime: a brief overview
Prior to the coming into force of the Land Registration Act 2002, a squatter could acquire the right to be registered as proprietor of a registered estate if they had been in adverse possession of the land for a minimum of 12 years. However, the doctrine of adverse possession did not fit easily with the concept of indefeasibility of title that underlies the system of land registration. Nor could it be justified by the uncertainties as to ownership which can arise where land is unregistered; the legal estate is vested in the registered proprietor and they are identified in the register.

The Land Registration Act 2002 has created a new regime that applies only to registered land. This new regime is set out in Schedule 6 to the Act. It makes it more likely that a registered proprietor will be able to prevent an application for adverse possession of their land being completed. The following paragraphs provide a brief overview of the new regime; the remaining sections of this guide discuss it in more detail.

adverse possession of registered land for 12 years of itself will no longer affect the registered proprietor’s title
after 10 years’ adverse possession, the squatter will be entitled to apply to be registered as proprietor in place of the registered proprietor of the land
on such an application being made the registered proprietor (and certain other persons interested in the land) will be notified and given the opportunity to oppose the application
if the application is not opposed (by ‘opposed’ we mean that a counter notice is served; see Giving counter notice to the registrar in response to notice. Instead, or at the same time, the registered proprietor may object to the application on the ground that there has not been the necessary 10 years’ adverse possession; see Objecting to the squatter’s application for the implications of such an objection.), the squatter will be registered as proprietor in place of the registered proprietor of the land
if the application is opposed, it will be rejected unless either
it would be unconscionable because of an equity by estoppel for the registered proprietor to seek to dispossess the squatter and the squatter ought in the circumstances to be registered as proprietor
the squatter is for some other reason entitled to be registered as proprietor
the squatter has been in adverse possession of land adjacent to their own under the mistaken but reasonable belief that they are the owner of it, the exact line of the boundary with this adjacent land has not been determined and the estate to which the application relates was registered more than a year prior to the date of the application.
in the event that the application is rejected but the squatter remains in adverse possession for a further two years, they will then be able, subject to certain exceptions, to reapply to be registered as proprietor and this time will be so registered whether or not anyone opposes the application

Replace hedge with flesh burning lasers on the boundary, with a warning sign or two. 😆

if they’ve used that land for 12 years unchallenged, you may have lost it….

It’s been four years, and in any case “not removing a hedge” is a pretty tenuous way of “using” land I’d have thought?

You’re slacking the other thread had a map and a photo.

I’d have a friendly chat and show them the documents, I would make it clear it’s your land. If you want to let them use your land then the paperwork and a peppercorn rent is essential. What happens if they sell to someone who is less friendly? In that circumstance you could end up with a load more grief.

It’s been four years, and in any case “not removing a hedge” is a pretty tenuous way of “using” land I’d have thought?

How would the OP know, they’ve only lived there 3 years…

We moved in to our current home 3 years ago and have always thought that the neighbours had grabbed a bit of land that is actually ours (there is a hedge that divides our properties to the side of our drive.

If the hedge has been there 12 years, them they could easily get title to the land.

How would the OP know, they’ve only lived there 3 years…

Because RightMove shows the sale date of the other property – they moved in the year before we did.

Sorry not read the whole thread as I’m sure this is covered in more detail above but boundary’s on land registry plans are indicative only and not to be taken as gospel, its listed in the land registry guidelines. The red line would scale up to be around 2 meters wide on the ground.
To have a definitive boundary you can apply to have a recorded boundary put in place but its expensive and requires the land registry to send out a surveyor.

The red line would scale up to be around 2 meters wide on the ground.

But what the red line does show is the fact it is a straight line (following the line of the side access path to our house) whereas what they have done is create a dog-legged line comes a couple of feet further out just by our side gate.

From the Government website apologies if i`m misunderstanding this Drac?

I’m not sure which part you’re referring to but the 2002 Change didn’t take away the rights of owning land just made the process so that it could be challenged easier.

Sort it out now or it will be a pig to resolve when you or they come to sell or you fall out . There is adverse possession to deal with and also estopple ,I am a lawyer but I know just enough to give the above advise. If you can’t agree it between you and put up a clearly yours boundary you need a property lawyer.
A casual I’ve had to look at my deeds and I just noticed where the boundary lies what shall we do about my hedge should get the ball rolling neutrally.