[Closed] Probability of living inside a simulation

Not sure but why would I be running simulations of loading hospitals up if I was in a simulation 😉 On the computing power the trick to simulating is to discard and simplify the non essential parts. Similar to the glitch in the matrix idea where they are just reusing the code, looping a background etc. SoI'm going very low...

[img] [/img]

😀

But how likely is it that, even given millions of years of evolution that [b]an Alien species[/b] could create computer hardware that could scale infinitely to be able to cope with an infinite amount of realities creating an infinite amount of simulations?

It's them*,they control all our thoughts and dreams..
[img] [/img]

* they made me post that.

So Bacup could be a dead pixel?
Or a coding glitch?

Makes sense....

But how likely is it that, even given millions of years of evolution that a species could create computer hardware that could scale infinitely to be able to cope with an infinite amount of realities creating an infinite amount of simulations? Surely that would cause the whole thing to be shut down?

You're assuming the test subjects have infinite free will. It's entirely possible that they don't.

Loddrik +1 with the steak but without the treachery 😆

You're assuming the test subjects have infinite free will. It's entirely possible that they don't.

Brexit voters? 😆

yep.

[img] [/img]

But how likely is it that, even given millions of years of evolution

If we are in a simulation, you only know that becuase it's the limitation of the simulation, It may be that outside the simulation trillions upon trillions of years have gone by and the architects of it a very much more advanced than you can imagine. To them we might appear as limited as the pieces used on a Draughts board.

I'm all for the theory that it's not that we "can't" or there "isn't" other species in the universe merely that we are not "allowed" to progress. You have to ask yourself with phones millions of computing times more powerful than the Apollo missions wy we haven't got new Spaceships yet after the space shuttles where retired. Most likely we borrowed and wore out some technology we can't replicate aka failed a real or simulated test.

I find this topic fascinating. Mostly because it has now moved from the realms of quackery to possibility.

Science has gone full circle from debunking religion (and various Gods) to now laying down theories that the creation of the universe is so improbable that a 'creator' of some sorts must have been responsible for the Big Bang.

As such imagine the universe as a big science project, an ant farm if you will, but the logic of the world is run as computer code.

Some scientists and cosmologists suggest that this computer is all around us. Nature itself. Others suggest that this is some external 'server farm' type of simulation. The crux of it is that it is a simulated reality.

Of course, this is still mostly theory, but there is some real scientific thinking behind this. Before you say 'you sound mental flipiddy'. Take some acid and watch these...

[url=

lite[/url]

[url=

science fair ramblings[/url]

In fact maybe give the acid a miss and just watch the vids. Quite enlightening.

😆

I don't disagree with that. Some people have said that science has proven things etc, the greatest minds of all time blah de blah.

However, we are limited by what we know and our arrogance that we know pretty much every theory (eg scientific and mathematic) to prove this that and the other. For example, we constantly search for what we believe are life bearing planets based on values we have predicted. Well that's great, assuming there are no life forms formed of material gas or substance or immaterial being that we don't understand. In fact they are probably pointing and laughing at us right now, wondering when we will get over ourselves.

It's a revolving door, we constantly search for something within the realms of our own possiblities and refuse to believe it is in anyway limited. We'll never get out of the box we are in unti, that changes.

So, all the Flat Earthists. Are they part of the same plot or is this a completely different one?

you're on thin ice with that one kryton57!

Last time I dared to put that very same idea to the forum, the science heads on here became apoplectic with rage at the notion that maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], they're throwing pebbles into the chasm with their theories

I remember certain forum members turning themselves inside out with blind fury 😆

disclaimer: I only believe in infinite tea and the restorative power of a satisfying dump

However, we are limited by what we know and our arrogance that we know pretty much every theory (eg scientific and mathematic) to prove this that and the other. For example, we constantly search for what we believe are life bearing planets based on values we have predicted. Well that's great, assuming there are no life forms formed of material gas or substance or immaterial being that we don't understand.

Most half arsed scientists have read Solaris and get this.

yunki - Member
you're on thin ice with that one kryton57!

Last time I dared to put that very same idea to the forum, the science heads on here became apoplectic with rage...

ok, i'll give it a go...

Kryton57 - Member
I don't disagree with that. Some people have said that science has proven things etc, the greatest minds of all time blah de blah.

However, we are limited by what we know and our arrogance that we know pretty much every theory (eg scientific and mathematic) to prove this that and the other.

i think you'd be looking for a long time to find anyone who works in science/research who believes we know 'pretty much every theory to explain everything...'

I believe in the past thread which Yunki refers to I mentioned this - the existence of life forces beyond our scientific or mathematic explanation and was argued down. That's the arrogance I speak of - not that we know everything but that we assume everything can be explain by the charactertics of our own formulae.

It may be we cannot discover some thing that is right in front of our noses becuase we do not have the capability to do so

Sounds to me like someone trying to do way with God but still not prepared to do away with external influences.

I reckon it's rubbish.

@slowoldman - Well, I'm assuming that it's [b]technically[/b] possible to build such a simulation if it turns out the universe is discrete (ie digital).

Could such a simulation be run on some kind of insane analogue computer if not?

PS I'm a total layman in regards to physics and computing, so if any physics guys could tell us something interesting - ie educate us cretins, that'd be great.

PS I'm a total layman in regards to physics, so if any physics guys could tell us something interesting - ie educate us cretins, that'd be great.

Funny you should say that. [url=

you need is right here[/url]

Sci - fi stoner BS

Better than life?

If it's a simulation who pays for the electricity to run the computing device it's on?

If it's a simulation, who is the mother of the IT geek who lives at home with said mother and runs said simulation?

If it's a simulation, where does the pretty girl in the company who our single IT geek secretly loves, live?

Perhaps it is a simulation. At the moment the sky outside looks like a BSOD.

Golf. Nobody would have included it in a simulation.

Golf. Nobody would have included it in a simulation.

Pffft whatevs!

Golf is precisely the kind of evidence that we were being run by/acting as the playground for a bunch of IT technonerds, that I would look for.

Speculation without data or evidence is sometimes entertaining, but isn't a foundation for trying to support an idea that hasn't earned the entitlement to be called a theory.

Sci - fi stoner BS

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Rees ]Leader of the stoner BS[/url]

Do you think he uses king skins or regulars?

😆

They're looking for [b]part[/b] of that evidence though aren't they woppit, with that giant Fermilab Holometer? So far, they have failed to find evidence of any pixelation at the planck length. Am I right in thinking that if they don't find any evidence for this in the long run, that implies that the universe is analogue? Or am I wrong?

That bit of kit is cool as hell btw.

thestabiliser - Member

Golf. Nobody would have included it in a simulation.

Stepping in dog shit as a youngster, while playing in the park in your new Nike Airs....
No way that would be in a computer simulation!

It's entirely possible, but if the sim wasn't fully immersive and convincing (or didn't have rules and overrides built in to prevent us noticing that it isn't) then we'd have noticed, and if it is or has those things then we will never know and it makes no difference. Though, wouldn't it have been awesome if Tenzing Norgay got to the summit of Everest and discovered he'd poked out of the skybox?

(the next step is basically solipsism- if this is a sim, we have to at least assume that we're a real functional emotional intelligence simmed in the sim; but why assume that of everyone else? Unless we're meat in a machine, it'd be far easier to create a projection of other intelligences to surround you than it would be to have 7.125 billion equally complex entities)

TBH I don't think Elon Musk believes it himself, but it creates interesting chat

I am rather fond of Elon, it makes me happy that someone a little bit nuts (in a good way) can end up as a CEO - instead of the usual vacuous corporate donkeys with no imagination.

The supposition that there are intelligences made of gas that we can't detect is amusing, but I think attention to J.B.S. Haldane is useful: "Not only is the universe queerer than we suppose, it's queerer than we CAN suppose "...

I love this stuff!!

My work has touched on quantum computing and it is mind blowing some of the things the developers claim it may be able to prove in the future is crazy.....whilst i understand the words and the concept, beyond that i'm baffled!! 🙂 There is indeed a theory where on paper it can be mathematically proven that we do live in a hologram simulation. Real AI stuff.

Its a fascinating subject. I'll be checking these youtube links out at lunch!

It's entirely possible, but if the sim wasn't fully immersive and convincing (or didn't have rules and overrides built in to prevent us noticing that it isn't) then we'd have noticed, and if it is or has those things then we will never know.

Yes, if you tried to mimic other 'laws'. If those 'laws' are unique to this 'science experiment', then there is no convincing to be done.

However, it appears there are [url= https://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/there-is-no-spoon?utm_term=.pprx8VLjN#.bkbrDZo8P ]glitches[/url]...

😕

Knowing the sort of shit some people used to put their Sims characters through, I do sincerely hope it's not a simulation.

Turns out, for example, that putting your Sim in a swimming pool and removing the only ladder is not good.
And neither is, (also purely by way of example), putting the Sim in a room with numerous sources of water, but no toilet, then sealing the doors and windows shut and leaving them in there until they cry themselves to death in a puddle of their own urine.

And in other news... Never mind about whether or not it's a simulation, apparently it might not even be there. Here. Whatever...

[url= http://themindunleashed.org/2015/06/new-mind-blowing-experiment-confirms-that-reality-doesnt-exist-if-you-are-not-looking-at-it.html ]blimey[/url]

It's ***ing nonsense. All the Chariots of the Gods stuff was a way for some bloke to make a living and so is this garbage.

"Is the universe digital or analogue"? Just what do you mean by that?

Golf. Nobody would have included it in a simulation.

Ask the digital residents of San Andreas

[img] [/img]

Admire your confidence slowold. Don't get killed on the next zebra crossing...

Hopefully we're all being simulated in a lab with a decent UPS rather than on a kids playstation.

I think we are. That makes all you lot Dwayne Dibley.

Better than life?

Makes sense. All this time I've been playing the crap version of Rimmer.

This is basically just another way of believing in a god, no?

And not the particularly enlightened type, the idea of creationism is fairly indistinguishable from a simulation?

Our God could be a 9 year old kid from an advanced civilisation (or his/her Mam who might switch us off when she wants to do the hoovering)

So the point of simulation is to experiment, the most useful things in my simulations is the fast forward and reset buttons. At times the detail is pointless and adds no value but slows down the results. As a simulation it's very poorly designed.

If 'they' are reading this then can you rewind me by 3 years please, thanks

*waits*

If 'they' are reading this then can you rewind me by 3 years please, thanks

If 'they' are reading this then can you rewind me by 3 years please, thanks

*waits*

that's the trouble with life "undo is grayed out" 🙂

So the point of simulation is to experiment, the most useful things in my simulations is the fast forward and reset buttons. At times the detail is pointless and adds no value but slows down the results. As a simulation it's very poorly designed.

The speed of our simulation would only be observable by the people who set it up, no? We'd still experience it at the same speed.

My point being if anything it would have to be the sort of self indulgent simulation that has far too much detail.

So your saying, that given the ability to do so, our narcissism wouldn't cause us to try recreate our ancestors/evolution in a simulation for the lolz/because we could - for some kind of nerd version of big brother?

Sat at my desk I can simulate a lot, today was a hospital, last week was moving patients from on to another, the there was the cheese store 🙂 in all of those we skipped and skimmed the unimportant to get to the issues.

that given the ability to do so, our narcissism wouldn't cause us to try recreate our ancestors/evolution in a simulation

I get your point, I mean why simulate humans if you're looking at something else? Wasted resources. I guess it depends on how cheap that kind of computing power was at the time - you could use it as a sandbox to test a lot of scientific, social, evolutionary theories without someone going "NOT ACCURATE ENUFFFFF". A tool like that would be the final word in being able to predict the likelihood of just about any future event. Plus, it would just be cool wouldn't it?

But, I don't personally think that it can be done anyway.

Someone ring Prof Cox.

On a slightly related topic, this Rick and Morty show was hilarious - if any fellow nerds on here still haven't heard of it.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with these guys...

[img] [/img]

This is basically just another way of believing in a god, no

Pretty much. At the scale of the universe you may as well believe in a God as as the laws of physics, it essentially amounts to the same thing

That's just silly.

The laws of physics are descriptives of observable parameters.

A god is an allegedley self-autonomous infinitely powerful invisible being that controls everything. As well as being non-existant, of course.

You might as well say that the rules of grammar and Shakespeare are the same thing.

Consider for a moment, that if there WERE a simulation being run, it may not be originated by humans seeking to simulate their own existence.

If you're thinking on this level, it's just as plausible that the universe is one big digital petri dish, humans are just one product of a chaos experiment run via a simulation. There may be other digital petri dishes running along side. Humans are just an evolving product in one of those experiments.

Not saying...but...what if? What IF? Mind blown yet?

So 'those' who are running us as an experiment, how did they come in to existence? etc etc

So 'those' who are running us as an experiment, how did they come in to existence? etc etc

Think they were conceived in the woods behind the nationwide in Swindon.

Actually...I haven't got a scooby tbh... one step at a time, eh?

😆

Watch that video above, it could be self petting, but leaves a chicken & egg scenario. E.g. the theory is that our brain is ar capacity & maxima; size, so the only way to add intelligence is to build it artificially, therefore Simulate a better version of ourselves, which in turn, etc...

[img] [/img]

Not saying...but...what if? What IF? Mind blown yet?

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with these guys...

Them and the golgafrinchians.

One of the most intriguing theories I've heard is that our Universe is a projection from the singularity of a black hole; based on a the premise that information at it's most basic level is never destroyed and therefore anything that gets sucked into a black hole is regurgitated out the other side.

That's just silly.

sort of, but considering that we have no way of currently measuring what 95% of the observable universe actually is made from...saying "it's god" as about as good as every other theory currently knocking about.

😆

That's not a theory. It's just the equivalent of saying "wibble".

if it's a simulation it's a bloody shit one in my case.

and some other food for thought..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_event_simulation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_simulation

Big differences and heaps of overlap, life would probably be best discrete which as I said earlier allows you to skip the bits that don't matter. Continuous would be a masive overhead for no real benifit in a lot of areas, you can go hybrid on it and do a bit of both.

The key question is what sits on top of the board in any of my simulation training courses is What Is the Question.
If it's a purly self indulgent simulation for the hell of it then are you just grasping for god by another name?

mikewsmith - Member

So the point of simulation is to experiment, the most useful things in my simulations is the fast forward and reset buttons. At times the detail is pointless and adds no value but slows down the results. As a simulation it's very poorly designed.

For all we know the sim is in fast forward right now, it's just that we perceive it at steady speed. Or was reset yesterday and we were preloaded with the quicksave data so we don't know. (except for my mate Andrew, who always takes longer to load than everyone else)

OK, current simulation and it's limits...
To run a simulation you need to run the events in order, we still don't run more than single core for the computing, the biggest thing to be invented in the space is the ability to run the overhead involved in multicoring the synchronisation between the event lists of events means it's still more efficient to run single core. The overhead in running a world level simulation at full detail ends up with the situation where the people asking the question are dead by the time you get the answers. Given that you need to run 10's to 1000's of scenarios to make anything of your simulation that's a lot of planet sized computers.
The reason we can fast forward to something useful is by skipping a lot of detail out. That's the sort of day to day shit that doesn't really matter in the long run but amuses us on day to day.

[quote=racefaceec90 ]if it's a simulation it's a bloody shit one in my case.

if there is a god, he's an asshole.

The key question is what sits on top of the board in any of my simulation training courses is What Is the Question.

Perhaps the question is [i]"How long will it take this simulated planet to develop sentient life capable of figuring out that it is is in a simulation?"[/i]

Perhaps the question is "How long will it take this simulated planet to develop sentient life capable of figuring out that it is is in a simulation?"

If the universe is infinite then there are probably more simulated realities than real ones. So odds are you are living in a simulated one.

Wondering why this would be the case probably misses the point given that:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic"
and
"The universe is not only stranger then we suppose but stranger than we can suppose"

Also in an infinite universe there will be an identical copy of this thread being read and contributed to by an identical copy of the individuals involved in it. It will be a very large but finite distance away in the infinite universe.

Fun thread though!

and as part of it want to simulate a world in full detail fix this one
https://www.comsol.com/blogs/havent-cpu-clock-speeds-increased-last-years/