Possible shooting in Munich, people reported injured/shot

Fin is about as bang on as a blind Parkinson’s sufferer trying to shoot clay pigeons.

No, Tom, it’s not just about Sunni Wahaabis.
Thanks for that transcript, a lot to take in, because the issue is complex. I think it’s too easy to just say “radicalisation” or “Wahaabis” and make that the problem. The problem starts much earlier than that. We need to try to understand why people who choose violence do so, rather than engaging in simplistic reductionism.

lol at yunki googling:

Shit’s on fire, yo!

Philippines luxury hotels

Edit: Oh. We got a ninja editor up in here?

mate… the worst of it is that I always forget to log out of my other half’s chrome account and she gets home with this totally exasperated look on her face

(I actually googled ‘shock and awe’ and Phillipines)

Your clever Yunki. Here’s what life is like for many people in the Phils

When you hear about a Christian Filipino suicide bomber, get back to me.

https://www.rt.com/news/353005-machete-wielding-man-attack/

she gets home with this totally exasperated look on her face

What any sane person would do on realising they share a house with you 😉

Tom_W1987 – Member
Your clever Yunki. Here’s what life is like for many people in the Phils

When you hear about decades of war waged on the phillipines by western governments you get back to me sonny jim

Syrian refugee kills a woman in Southern Germany with a machete.

If Merkel had a strong rival politically she’d be finished.

Lets be clear I don’t care whether he’s Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

or if the germans feared immigrants and muslims as much as you do

@yunki the people of the Middle East has been slaughtering each other in violent wars for 1000’s of years. The west stumbled into it, they did not create the divisions.

@yunki the people of the Middle East has been slaughtering each other in violent wars for 1000’s of years. The west stumbled into it, they did not create the divisions.

Damn that Richard I, he should have sorted it out when he had the chance.

This “blame the west” thing is a red herring. France was publically against the Iraq invasion, what did Belgium have to do with it ? Germany has been the most open and helpful nation to Refugees.

Ok simple question
Have we helped the middle east be a more peacful region?

Yes or No

I think most would accept it was no and many would argue we have not really tried we have only acted to secure a theatre of influence whence why Saudi is probably the worst[certainly amongst them] yet we don’t mind because they are “loyal”

Lets be clear I don’t care whether he’s Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

Its good to know you are without prejudice in your dislike of immigrants and you dislike them all equally irrespective of background

Lets be clear I don’t care whether he’s Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

Don’t forget wahhabi. 🙄

political and social dislocation amongst the young and poor as they are about religious doctrine.
Would so many young men be looking for answers in wahaabist violence if they were secure and happy in their own lives?
Would terrorism have gained such a foothold in the Middle East had Iraq nor descended into chaos?

Tom_1987. This above is the bit of Fin25’s post which I don’t think you can have seen to disregard what he/she says. May I ask which part of the Phillipines has had events similar to Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria? Marcos may have been a nightmare, but he was nothing in comparison. Where is the ready set of schisms that have been utilised by an interfering set of foreign or regional powers for their own ends in that locality? Also, where are the disaffected, non-integrated diaspora of people of Phillipines origin ready to be be co-opted into violence…? There is no value in your comparison.

I think the text you included is interesting and the main thing in there is the complexity of the situatiion. However, I don’t think it illustrates the point you are trying to make. Nor does the blatant rudeness of your approach TBH…

Middle East has been slaughtering each other in violent wars for 1000’s of years. The west stumbled into it, they did not create the divisions.

that’s a true fact mate however, the number of terrorist attacks on our shores seems to increased somewhat over the last 40 years or so

if the germans feared immigrants and muslims as much as you do

You might not want to watch “NSU – German History X” on Netflix…

Cannot think why that show could have appealed to you

😆

jambalaya
Lets be clear I don’t care whether he’s Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Kurdish, Christian or of no religion. Germany has more than a million people within its borders who they know very little about.

There probably isn’t anyone that uses the forum that DOES care as much as you.

The BBC article on the Germany attack states the perpetrators country of origin in its headline so you don’t need to look into the article for the bloodlust you crave.

When you hear about decades of war waged on the phillipines by western governments you get back to me sonny jim

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Enduring_Freedom_%E2%80%93_Philippines

😀 😆

Ooops.

yeah.. I don’t think you can really consider that pwnage though laddie

Tom_1987. This above is the bit of Fin25’s post which I don’t think you can have seen to disregard what he/she says. May I ask which part of the Phillipines has had events similar to Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria? Marcos may have been a nightmare, but he was nothing in comparison. Where is the ready set of schisms that have been utilised by an interfering set of foreign or regional powers for their own ends in that locality? Also, where are the disaffected, non-integrated diaspora of people of Phillipines origin ready to be be co-opted into violence…? There is no value in your comparison.

The North during the communist uprisings.

Christian and Muslim schisms have been expoited there by the good ole USA.

How many terrorists that have attacked the west have been actual syrians who were exposed to that countries descent into war?

yeah.. I don’t think you can really consider that pwnage though laddie

Why not? Al-Qaeda’s attacks were mostly down the simple fact that they hated Americans having military bases within Saudi. Those guys weren’t motivated by growing up in poverty.

France was simply supplying aid to the FSA up until the attacks on their home soil. What kind of Syrian would go a bit explodey, because the French were helping the FSA defeat Bashar Al-Assad? Go on, tell me? Might they be fundamentalist whackos as opposed to upset syrians?

for the bloodlust you crave.

I disagree with Jambalya on about 99% of issues, the 1% being Spurs being bottlers, but that seems a touch harsh.

I’m really lost as to what you’re going on about now Tom..
What point are you trying to make?

I’m certainly not sure that I’m disagreeing with you, and I’m also not entirely sure whether you’re asking me to defend a point that I’ve made or whether you’re asking me to counter something else entirely.. 😕

@ath I was in favour of airstrikes in Syria first time round to try and reduce casualties in that cilvil war, I think there have been another 100,000 deaths since then and of course the rise of IS. I want to see less bloodshed. So far Germany’s openness doesn’t seem to be making them any safer.

@yunki I would agree the region is less stable than it was 40 years ago. The removal of brutul dictators who where slaughtering their own people has lead to renewed sectarian violence. Two bad situations.

Whilst there is plenty of talk here about the Middle East the violence in France and Begium has its roots in the Maghreb – Morocco / Tunisa / Algeria and we have arrested such individuals in the UK who have been planning attacks.

I really don’t think we have too much to disagree on here, Tom. Maybe I was unclear. Poverty is one reason why young men might feel disenfranchised to the point of violence, your point about a lack of integration is definitely valid regarding sectarian violence in Europe. I just don’t think it’s helpful to reduce the narrative to simple explanations of us and them, there’s more to it than that. If we don’t try to understand why young men make these terrible choices we’ll see more and more violence. Less blame, more understanding and all that hippy shite.

jambalaya
I was in favour of airstrikes in Syria first time round to try and reduce casualties in that cilvil war, I think there have been another 100,000 deaths since then and of course the rise of IS. I want to see less bloodshed. So far Germany’s openness doesn’t seem to be making them any safer.

So 100,000 further deaths in Syria since air strikes. Well done. Do you think Syrians now in Europe feel safer? They probably do.
Your post above jambers makes me feel like I happily voted in the referendum to clean up your s***, and I would happily vote the same way again, although please eat roses the next time!

I think the text you included is interesting and the main thing in there is the complexity of the situatiion. However, I don’t think it illustrates the point you are trying to make. Nor does the blatant rudeness of your approach TBH…

I agree with most of what the author said, but not his feeble attempt to differentiate between “muslim culture” and religion. The two are massively intertwined.

Can you imagine the outrage if Christopher Hitchens had said, “it’s not their religion that makes them violent – it’s their culture, it’s who they are as a people”. The professor, whilst making an awkward disclaimer to placate the religious – manages to say something that would be more openly racist and horrific if said by a westerner.

I really don’t think we have too much to disagree on here, Tom. Maybe I was unclear. Poverty is one reason why young men might feel disenfranchised to the point of violence, your point about a lack of integration is definitely valid regarding sectarian violence in Europe. I just don’t think it’s helpful to reduce the narrative to simple explanations of us and them, there’s more to it than that. If we don’t try to understand why young men make these terrible choices we’ll see more and more violence. Less blame, more understanding and all that hippy shite.

We do on 80 percent of this discussion I think – sorry I was rude and terse. I just went a bit cross eyed seeing the same usuals that blew the opinions of that professor off last time.

At the end of the day, I think the Muslim world and Islam needs to go through a period of liberalisation. It’s not the people, people are the same everywhere. It’s just more religious lunacy, of the type we see in other places to lesser degrees or to greater degrees in different eras, it’s just the right time and place for Islamist lunacy. Making excuses for it just does a massive disservice to liberal and secularist Muslims and Middle-Easterners everywhere.

Tom_1987.

I think you know exactly what I meant. The scale of comparison of the two situations and in the last 100 years the lack of interference to cause regime change. I’m not ignorant on the more recent actions of the US, nor the historic events. You are not the only informed kid on the block.

They are not the same thing at all… 🙂 😆 I too can use smileys – in discussions like this it comes across as incredibly patronising.

Fin25 is simply saying look at things in a wider context.

@ath I think you misunderstood, 100,000 deaths since airstrikes where voted down a few years ago, not since they where approved recently. Inaction can cost lives too.

Bomb being reported in a bar in Southern Germany.

Bomb being reported in a bar in Southern Germany.

27 yo Syrian man was refused entry to a music festival, blew himself up using a bomb in his backpack which apparently was packed with screws and nails. His motives remain “unclear”.

His motives remain “unclear”.

probably just bored

Refused asylum a year ago but given accomodation and financial support to remain in the country as it was unsafe for him to return. No so safe for those in Germany for him to remain.

That’s America off the holiday list. Psychos those Americans.

jambalaya – Member
Refused asylum a year ago but given accomodation and financial support to remain in the country as it was unsafe for him to return. No so safe for those in Germany for him to remain.

yes its definitely best to be be cowed and do exactly what the terrorists want 🙄

after we gifted ISIS the Brexit result, they are now capitalising on the instability it has caused

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/isis-brexit-news-eu-referendum-result-praises-response-islamic-state-daesh-political-crisis-crusader-a7109781.html

its all just more of the benefits of brexit

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-urges-attacks-berlin-brussels-paralyse-post-brexit-europe-1567341

Yeah Kimbers, ISIS target Europe because it’s a secularist symbol of unity and human rights. They can’t let it be seen as giving hope and refuge to fleeing Syrians. They will target Europe so they can turn around and say “look, they hate you”.

We have to counter that with good propaganda of our own, we have to champion secularist ideals and human rights. We should only engage in intervention in Syria once we’ve made it very clear that what we care about are those two ideals – and that we do genuinely want to help syrians. If we can’t do that – then we will lose the war of hearts and minds. Carrot and a stick, we have to counter Islamism and yet offer an alternative that looks good for young Muslims. We have to get into the mindset that this is an ideological war and we have to start behaving as if it is.

By retreating into nationalism and discussing policies such as “internment” we are simply proving to the world that we have lost faith in our own culture.