Police Lost the Plot Again

Keep well away from the back end of a horse you aren’t very friendly with and be wary of the front.

“Dangerous at both ends and crafty in the middle.”🤣

🙂

I seem to recall about 10 years ago a copper got a commendation for running over a guy threatening people on New Mills high street with a knife, so maybe it is standard procedure

I don’t understand why a vet with a tranquilliser gun wasn’t called

Because tranquiliser darts don’t work like they do in the movies.

You need to inject the correct amount of drug, it doesn’t work instantly, if it only partly works it can make things far worse, and as Bruk has mentioned, very few vets are actually qualified and have the equipment. And I’d very much doubt those vets would even have access to anything capable of stopping such a large animal, as it’s not exactly a regular requirement to tranquilise several hundred kilos of animal from a distance.

And as has been said, accurately shooting such a large moving target isn’t simple, or without other risks.

The only practical option is usually containment, but doing that in a built up area isn’t easy to do. Lots of people seem to think rampaging cattle are an easy thing to handle, but you’re talking animals who will quite happily jump over or ram there way through gates/fences/walls/cattle grids if they want to, and have a surprising amount of stamina for something that is usually fairly docile.

Ongoing for several hours and then they decide to end it like this.

Not unsurprising though, with the urban city public and police officers as they are.

maybe some more evidence of how agile cattle are. I was on my way to a job on a farm, chatting to the farmer and the bull got spooked, from a standing start, it jumped the fence, landed on the farm track then instantly jumped the next fence and charged off through a crop.
they’re big beasties

There are sharpshooters on-call for some (all?) zoos in case of an escape, but they are few and far between.

I’ve had to heard a few loose cows from the fields around us.  The thing is, they’re scared of you (waving your arms and shouting, moving toward them) until they’re suddenly more scared of something else and then it’s like you’re invisible and they come thundering toward you.  You’re left thinking “what’s going on?” They’re not, they’re just running and if you don’t react quickly enough, it ends very badly, very quickly.

I used to write policies / standard operating procedures for how police vehicles should be used. I also ran a police driving school for three years. At no time did the subject of herding, nudging or disabling livestock ever feature in either role. You just can’t account for every scenario or the rules and associated training would be endless.

Sure, police control rooms can call on AFOs to dispatch animals but a heifer ain’t an XL Bully and the firepower needed for a clean kill on something so ..err, meaty is hugely unwelcome in an urban environment. Police control rooms do have 24 hour hotlines to call out vets, the military etc etc but tranquilisers are way too slow and that’s not what the military are for, especially when the police have their own AFOs.

I’d guess the control room will have called the keyholders for the nearest farms, without success, before the decision was taken to **** the beast with a patrol vehicle. I’ve seen it done to people armed with axes, swords and knives (pre-taser days) and it’s way less lethal to the subject (and potentially any bystanders) than being shot. Having often seen the carnage that sheep, deer, cattle and horses can cause when running loose on the roads, the outcome to this ‘high steaks’ situation was very much towards the least worse end of possibilities.

Pearl clutching, hand wringing nonsense.

It staggers me how the vast majority of folk will cheerfully pop to McD’s on the way home from work (and will be actively hostile towards those who don’t), yet when a copper thumps into a burger-precursor outrage erupts from the bottom half of the Internet.

Rank hypocrisy with a side order of any excuse for the bottom half of the Internet to have a pop at the police.

Of course some countries are much better prepared for this sort of thing…

Coincidentally we have highland cattle ‘running wild’ on Minchinhampton Common right now and no one feels the need to get the police to knock them over. Complete over reaction.

The cop didn’t really seem to have a plan other than knock it over though, they had plenty of opportunity to at least try and box it in but they just waited (it then recovered and walked off, amusingly startling some guy walking past obviously as he had headphones on). Not sure if he expected to kill it (or at least incapacitate it) with the ramming and I guess it might have looked dead from where the driver was as it was motionless half under the front of the car for a bit.

Coincidentally we have highland cattle ‘running wild’ on Minchinhampton Common right now and no one feels the need to get the police to knock them over.

Minchinhampton Common:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xnf54tX1hDs1c6sbA

Raleigh Rd, Feltham:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UaUuDRht4gs5gpsZ6

🤔

Coincidentally we have highland cattle ‘running wild’ on Minchinhampton Common right now and no one feels the need to get the police to knock them over. Complete over reaction.

A common. Not a suburban street.

We don’t deserve a Police force. They spend all day dealing with all sorts of unusual, highly individual situations, are expected to make tough judgement calls, and then face trial by (social) media rather than a proper “what can we learn from this”.

If it was so **** easy, why aren’t all the critics signing up to do the job?

It staggers me how the vast majority of folk will cheerfully pop to McD’s on the way home from work (and will be actively hostile towards those who don’t), yet when a copper thumps into a burger-precursor outrage erupts from the bottom half of the Internet.

Because being shot in the head before being eaten is generally preferable to having ones legs broken needlessly before being shot anyway?

Given the choice I think the heifer would opt for bruised ribs over being shot dead.

Not sure about that. Yes we don’t know the full facts but the poor bugger was scared , running around in an environment it’s not used to , got hit several times by a police car, it’s going to be traumatic plus it’s injuries

The bit of footage I did see I thought ah they are going to ram it and then the armed police kill the poor thing. Nope they ram it then stand around looking at it

Ive seen Police been called to and shoot animals in distress.

Ive seen Police been called to and shoot animals in distress.

Presumably not an option here after quite a long time period. For any number of possible reasons.

We’ve already heard from a former Police driving instructor. We have an ex armed response officer on the forum, not sure if they’ve posted as yet.

But we’ve had enough of experts, eh?

It’s rammed pretty hard but the footage only shows about 90 seconds of the full story.

The usual gobshites mouthing off at emergency services whilst they try to do their job is what caught my attention. One of many reasons I don’t miss my job.

…they had plenty of opportunity to at least try and box it in

And take four vehicles off the road for repairs while the calf injures itself, any fewer and the calf jumps into a shop frontage to escape and injures itself.

It’s really not that simple, @downshep +1

BITD the police were responsible for overseeing sheep-dipping (best job ever!) and also wrote out animal movement licences for sales, etc. That lasted into the late-80s I’d guess, but it meant that the contact book for farmers was full

IME any nearby farmer would come out for straying livestock, because next time it could be their stock and the favour returned

These days in Surrey, who knows?

I’m pretty militant on animal abuse / cruelty / sport killing but even I can see suspending that officer in this case is a complete over reaction.

It staggers me how the vast majority of folk will cheerfully pop to McD’s on the way home from work (and will be actively hostile towards those who don’t), yet when a copper thumps into a burger-precursor outrage erupts from the bottom half of the Internet.

Rank hypocrisy with a side order of any excuse for the bottom half of the Internet to have a pop at the police.

Oh interesting, I had assumed those making a fuss were the very people who like to preach at others about eating burgers and drinking milk being murder and destroying the planet?  Cos, your see there’s highly emotional voices on all sides of the topic.

I’m pretty militant on animal abuse / cruelty / sport killing but even I can see suspending that officer in this case is a complete over reaction.

I think suspending an officer who has intentionally used a police vehicle to exert potentially lethal force is not a particularly unusual or draconian action.  It does not follow that “suspended” = “will be punished”.  Its not bad that police officers have in their head – “if I do this extreme thing, which I believe to be correct, I will need to account for it at an internal investigation”.  Even ignoring the cow – it presumably did some reasonable damage to the car.

they had plenty of opportunity to at least try and box it in

Box it it in?

You do realise cattle will climb/jump over a vehicle?

I think suspending an officer who has intentionally used a police vehicle to exert potentially lethal force is not a particularly unusual or draconian action.  It does not follow that “suspended” = “will be punished”.  Its not bad that police officers have in their head – “if I do this extreme thing, which I believe to be correct, I will need to account for it at an internal investigation”.  Even ignoring the cow – it presumably did some reasonable damage to the car.

What’s the point of suspending them though? Incase they do it again to the next cow?

Suspending makes sense if there’s some reasonable grounds to suspect they’re incapable of doing their job.  And even if there was an argument that was the case a putting them behind a desk would seem more proportionate.

Not unsurprising though, with the urban city public and police officers as they are.

Yea…….nope.

The difference is that anyone actually used to cattle definitely wouldn’t be getting out of their car to deal with an angry / scared one.

What’s the point of suspending them though? Incase they do it again to the next cow?

Suspending makes sense if there’s some reasonable grounds to suspect they’re incapable of doing their job.  And even if there was an argument that was the case a putting them behind a desk would seem more proportionate.

I suspect its as much to make sure they don’t “contaminate” any investigation, influence anyone else, accidentally delete the body worn camera footage, etc.  As with all these things its probably more important that the force is seen to be doing things robustly and taking measures necessary to avoid claims of a cover up than actually being about protecting the public (or ruminants).

The difference is that anyone actually used to cattle definitely wouldn’t be getting out of their car to deal with an angry / scared one.

One will give you a good kicking, a flock of cows is definitely a something to be wary of

Cows are actually surprisingly docile, if curious. If you act in a slow + calm manner, they respond accordingly.

Would it have been ok if they did this to the King’s horses when they escaped a couple of weeks ago? Much bigger and faster.

Not unsurprising though, with the urban city public and police officers as they are.

Yea…….nope.

The difference is that anyone actually used to cattle definitely wouldn’t be getting out of their car to deal with an angry / scared one.

I mean if this was somewhere rural, it would have been shooed towards and into some kind of semi enclosed space (even if not a field) pronto by passers by rather than being allowed to roam for hours getting itself into a distressed state. 2 or 3 people would have been enough IME. And the police would likely have some experience of animals, even if they weren’t the rural specialist team, and no specific training.

It have now been reported that the cow is fine and recovering well.

At least for the next 12 months, at which point it gets eaten.

Somewhat balanced view from a farmer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg33v21weg3o

‘Probably did the right thing at the time’.

The police should stand up for their decisions more rigorously but are scared to do so, understandably, because any slightly misstep is an excuse for the local idiots to come out and riot for the evening.

Most of the general public are idiots when it comes to animals and there’s no action the police could have taken in this instance that would have resulted in the public not being outraged in some way.

I feel very sorry for the police these days, they really can’t please anyone and people target individual officers on a personal level now which must be a bit frightening for them and their families.

Would it have been ok if they did this to the King’s horses when they escaped a couple of weeks ago? Much bigger and faster.

I was surprised they managed to get them all under control without needing to shoot any of them.

The police should stand up for their decisions more rigorously but are scared to do so, understandably, because any slightly misstep is an excuse for the local idiots to come out and riot for the evening.

The police weren’t that worried on this occasion. If they had been, they’d have briefed a couple of journalists off the record that the cow was “no angel”, had been wearing a bulky overcoat in summer, had shot first at the cops, was hopped up on meth and had superhuman strength…

“I had assumed those making a fuss were the very people who like to preach at others about eating burgers and drinking milk being murder and destroying the planet?”

Did you miss that the first person to weigh in with their ignorant outrage was the Home Secretary? Not exactly known for his woke views.

Good to see some rational pushback. Maybe the police could have done better, but it wasn’t an easy situation and not likely one they had extensive plans for.

Not unsurprising though, with the urban city. . .

Except in was in a medium sized town in leafy Surrey.  But let’s not let facts get in the way of our ignorant prejudices.

 police officers as they are.

How are they?  All the police officers I’ve met (mainly in leafy Surrey) seem nice people, who would have a lot of trouble dealing with this situation.

Did you miss that the first person to weigh in with their ignorant outrage was the Home Secretary? Not exactly known for his woke views.

Tories will do anything at this stage just to try to gain a few extra votes.

If they’d been ahead in the polls, he’d be applauding the police for their quick action.

a medium sized town in leafy Surrey

Ooh, Feltham sounds lovely, maybe I should go for afternoon tea on the village green this weekend!

the first person to weigh in with their ignorant outrage was the Home Secretary? Not exactly known for his woke views.

James Cleverly is actually a vegetarian except for a monthly British beef roast. In the army, he wrestled an out of control camel to the ground because it was running toward a hostile village with a pair of DShKs that were strapped to its back and he didn’t want the Taliban to get them. And he is a massive Warhammer fan with a private YouTube channel dedicated to his collection.

I seem to recall about 10 years ago a copper got a commendation for running over a guy threatening people on New Mills high street with a knife, so maybe it is standard procedure

Not sure the cow was armed with a knife and threatening people though.

People can dress this up all they want to try and excuse it but it was barbaric and unnecessary.