How low a turnout can you get before you cannot call it democratic ?

So I take it everyone from across the political spectrum is in agreement that this is a stupid waste of money?

Seems like it. With the added dimension that we can eagerly await our countries police force now being used as a political football, for pathetic political point scoring

Does anyone in the country, outside Westminster, believe that that is actually going to have a positive effect on policing?

I have a horrible feeling that this is one of those policies that has ‘disaster’ not far up the road, written all over it

From a very long list Grum. A very very long list! 🙁

I think that anyone who votes for a party political appointee, of any party, for police commissioner, is an idiot.

that does not however undermine having a check and balance on the police of a directly elected representative with power.

if we looked at two examples:

i) Taser – who on the force is issued it
ii) PCSO powers

At the moment, both these are local policies decided by the chief constable – if the chief constable decides that he’s going to arm all response officers with Taser, then he can (and in some areas thats what is happening, in other areas its restricted to, for example, firearms teams)

But at present the Chief Constable answers to the local Police Authority, much of which is made up of elected councillors and the role of which is as below:

1.Your police authority is a group of 17 local people (slightly more in some areas) who hold the police to account on behalf of communities.2.Your police authority consults with local communities to find out what you want from your local police.
3.Your police authority’s job is to make sure that the Chief Constable (or Commissioner in London) delivers a police service which balances both national priorities and the concerns of local people.
4.Your police authority hires and, if necessary, fires chief constables and senior police officers – and also checks on complaints against police.
5.Your police authority publishes an annual plan, based on consultation with local people, setting out the services your police force should deliver in the year ahead, and the targets it should achieve.
6.As part of the annual policing plan, your police authority sets employment targets to ensure your local police reflect the diversity of local communities.
7.Your police authority holds the police budget. It consults with local people before it sets police council tax to ensure you get value for money.
8.Your police authority has a legal duty to promote equalities and good relations between different groups of people. As part of this, it ensures people know their rights if they are stopped or searched by police.
9.Around 10% of police authority members are from minority ethnic backgrounds and around 30% are women.
10.Your police authority makes sure the police service does everything it can to keep improving policing for your community

http://www.apa.police.uk/your-police-authority/what-they-do

All good stuff (apart from the need for more women and more ethnic diversity)

So if you don’t like how policing is being done, join the authority, or speak to you elected councillor or your elected MP or the elected Home Secretary.

The PCCs are not needed, there’s plenty of ‘democracy’ in the system already.

At the moment, both these are local policies decided by the chief constable – if the chief constable decides that he’s going to arm all response officers with Taser, then he can (and in some areas thats what is happening, in other areas its restricted to, for example, firearms teams)

you could argue that maybe some things should be set nationally? consider having speed limits set by the chief constable and the mess that would result.

I’d rather have an unelected chief constable making decisions like that tbh

Remember when the 2 female officers were recently gunned down in Manchester. The first thing the Greater Manchester Chief Constable did was make a statement saying defending the status quo, and immediately quashing calls for the routine arming of the police.

Now just imagine the same situation occurring 6 months down the line, with rival political factions having a pissing competition about who can appear the most hardline politically, all while being egged on by foaming-at-the-mouth tabloid headlines, which we all know politicians hopelessly pander too

Its not a good prospect is it?

Have I actually managed to start a thread on which everyone on STW agrees?

Blimey! 😮

Andy

Have I actually managed to start a thread on which everyone on STW agrees?

Blimey!

Andy

I think this might be the end of the internet.

Binners – I hadn’t thought of that, but it’s an excellent example of why this is just such an utterly ridiculous idea.

Remember when the 2 female officers were recently gunned down in Manchester. The first thing the Greater Manchester Chief Constable did was make a statement saying defending the status quo, and immediately quashing calls for the routine arming of the police.

Now just imagine the same situation occurring 6 months down the line, with rival political factions having a pissing competition about who can appear the most hardline politically, all while being egged on by foaming-at-the-mouth tabloid headlines, which we all know politicians hopelessly pander too

Its not a good prospect is it?

The counter argument of course being police tasering a blind pensioner and the police carrying on ‘as usual’ without anyone trying being held responsible…

Well Chorley police are presently being sued by said blind bloke.

You raise a good example though. If we had a politicised, tabloid influenced police force, I have no doubt whatsoever we’d have routinely armed police by now. And said blind bloke could presently be resembling Charles De Menezes.

The point about Greater Manchester Chief Constables response to the shootings was that it was so calm, considered and measured. Not words you associate with politicians. In fact: Knee-jerk reaction, is what I do associate with them

I can’t see any conceivable way in which less people will be tazered, and shot under the proposed system. Can you?

They think less than 20% are going to turn out to vote..wow that’s a democracy. I don’t think I habeas met one person who agrees with PCC, s how are they independent when affiliated to a political party? What is wrong with the police authority? A collection of people making decisions surely that makes more sense? I should show more of an interest as it may well affect me but again I still know nothing. Received no information about candidates, policies etc shocking.

Just seen an article on BBC West to-night, living in Wiltshire I can chose from 6 candidates

Liberal Democrat town councillor and businessman; Conservative accountant who is also a trustee of several charities; Labour union official; UKIP can’t really work out what they are doing at the moment (apart from being a candidate); and 2 Independents, one who works in IT/telecoms and the other is a civil servant.

I feel so honoured at least there is one winner who will trough up £70 or £80k a year in salary 🙁

Note to self: give up working for a living and climb aboard the gravy train

Spoiled paper for me – with a brief summary of why I’m not voting. Not voting may be taken for apathy rather than a positive rejection of the policy.

+1 to binners. It’s a bad idea.

+2 binners

41 of these people will exist (should anybody vote!) at figures mentioned we are probably looking at £5m per year after cars and perks and expenses etc, of course they will each need staff and PA and driver and whatever else they can wangle, so after all that another £5m per year.

£10m a year, effect on crime and justice? negligible.
Effect on once failed councilors or politicians, nice little earner.

There’s a new sheriff in town!!!!

*bump for election day*

I was the 7th person to vote at our polling station today, after it’d been open for 1 1/4 hours. Doesn’t bode well for a large turnout.

I was the closest I’ve every been to just spoiling the ballot, as it’s a botch job of an election for a post that doesn’t need to exist and as such is a colossal waste of money.

But I couldn’t bring myself to spoil the ballot paper, so voted for the least bad candidate.