MissJ, who lives in That London, has a problem with her toilet. The cistern is cracked and is leaking (a bit). She has been quoted A THOUSAND POUNDS to replace it. Part of that is because it is hidden behind tiles (a stupid idea to hide plumbing where it’s not accessible), but mostly it’s because the plumber charges the best part of a hundred quid an hour. That’s not just a well known rip-off merchant like Pimlico Plumbing, it’s what she’s been quoted by a number of plumbers.

So, of course if a plumber can charge 100 quid an hour, he’s going to do that, as per the Aesop fable about the frog and the scorpion, no matter that the customer is a nurse who earns a fraction of what he charges and doesn’t get to fix the “free market” rates. But what sort of a f’ed up society do we live in when this is normal?

Make it make sense – and, this being STW, tell me how it’s actually all my own fault 🙂

It’s London, so even if he only has a half day job booked and paid for, by the time he’s battled the traffic to Screwfix, battled the traffic to her house, done the job, and battled the traffic home, That’s the day gone.

But if he said his day rate is £400 and he only showed up at 10, left at 3 and took an hour for lunch while the sealant dried you’d be equally annoyed.

Does seem like a lot though.

TBH it’s ridiculous but what can you do!

There’s a lot of plumbing stuff that’s not difficult so maybe it’s a good time for her to learn a bit about tiling and plumbing.

Get down there and DIY it!! Then spend the savings on a ludicrously-priced-craft-beer bender 😂

£100 an hour and a £1000 quote = 10 hours of work?

Ok so there’s the materials cost (what, £100 total?) and changing a cistern can be a pain (DIY experience) even without tiles involved but even so, does it really take that long?

Ask what their day rate is and use that plus materials… wonder if that’s different.

Edit: Tell you what, for £1000 I’ll take the day off work, travel down to London and do it myself 😁

Is it actually hidden behind tiles, is there no access panel at all, i’d hope nobody designed the bathroom my entombing the cistern!

How do they know it’s cracked if they’ve not accessed it, could it be a simpler problem that can be fixed without breaking through the tiles, again it’s all hypothetical without seeing pictures, newer concealed systems tend to be better designed for maintenance?

Two options really

Get yourself down there and help her change the toilet. Even after tool purchases she should make a hefty saving.

Otherwise, pay the plumber. The price is the price, not much point complaining about it, she’s had a number of quotes around the same cost.

“tell me how it’s actually all my own fault”

Well, nobody else has as yet, so is it because you didn’t dissuade her moving to That London in the first place? 😂

Another thought: can she access the inside of the cistern?

Depending on the crack, it might be an option to just empty it and apply sealant to fix the leak without needing to replace the whole thing.

Hold on …. why isn’t this the landlord problem ?

Self employed trades will be lucky if half the hours they are working are chargeable

Hold on …. why isn’t this the landlord problem ?

Maybe because she owns her own flat??

I believe it’s allowed in London in this day and age.

Is it actually hidden behind tiles, is there no access panel at all, i’d hope nobody designed the bathroom my entombing the cistern!

Mine wasn’t designed like that,

Yet the plumber still sealed the **** unit up.

Thankfully the PITA leaky one wit the sticking fill valve it was possible to break through all the grip fill without doing any visible damage. The other bathroom will have to be destroyed to fix any small problem, it’s a Howdens unit with sink, cupboards, cistern etc.

So it’s a back to wall pan , and a concealed cistern then?
And there’s a leak which is probably the flush cone . It’s like a £3 part. . Or the flwxy pipe connector to the full valve which is like £2.
Problem arrises with access and making good.
Are there tiles available to re fit?
I would fit a new flush pipe whilst I was at it.

Owns her own flat in that there London  !!! ….. she’s landed gentry

(please realise I’m only playing along with the OP’s specific request…. 😉 )

For an hourly rate as a properly self employed person then you need to allow for all the other costs (insurance, tools, travel, training, pension etc) then add all the unbillable time (accounts, quotes, travel, sourcing parts etc). Its also very easy to mess up or miscalculate and have a load of extra costs or time fall on you. On top of that its not a job you can do in older life very easily. Still a healthy figure and would put him north of £90k a year equivalent by some rough maths, though. Very good even in London

Part of that is because it is hidden behind tiles (a stupid idea to hide plumbing where it’s not accessible), but mostly it’s because the plumber charges the best part of a hundred quid an hour.

I’d say its mostly because the part is hidden behind tiles. As you ay a stupid idea, but if it wasn’t then its an easy DIY or maybe an hours work which is OK even at £100

Another vote for DIY. As Singletrackmind said, it’s probably just failure of a cheap part. I’ve replaced various bits of bogs, although none of which were in concealed units. They are an incredibly straight forward bit of kit, far easier than most bike maintenance jobs. Always used fixthebog.com.

If it’s concealed how do you know the cistern is cracked? Is water leaking into the pan, or if not, where?

Not sure what I’d charge to change a toilet, I’ve done it for a close relative and it was unpleasant (not a plumber).

Its not unknown for us to give out ‘go away’ quotes as a company if we don’t want the aggro.

Is that possibly the case?

Is it worth the time/effort to remove the tiles, so the plumber just has to do the plumbing?

I do work a lot in London and the costs/time loss is horrible. Congestion charge, parking etc.
I vaguely remember £50ish to park on a meter in Camden for a few hours. Sometimes it’s cheaper and more convenient to just get a parking ticket. Big surcharge for diesel, which all useful vans are.

It’s a big price but without details it’s very difficult to say much for certain

It’s possible he doesn’t want the job. Is it in a flat/tricky access or parking etc? LEZ costs, parking costs, etc etc etc, before we start talking parts, labour and the real cost of running a company

Is he a tiler too or will he get a tiler in to finish etc?

I’m not a plumber but have done my share over the years. Some jobs really are utter shit, largely due to access and previous bodge/design intentions.

Having just replaced a leaking connection to a Victorian cast soil pipe in what was basically a priest’s hole, a grand on my hip would have made it far less disagreeable. If only it were as simple as that.

But it should be possible to inspect, maybe get a pic or video of the leak and suss out a DIY fix. Stick it up on here and we’ll have a look. A crack may even be fixable, if indeed that’s what it is

In the meantime put a pot under it

If your child can’t perform simple plumbing tasks for themselves then, frankly, you have failed dismally as a parent and ought to be thoroughly ashamed.

how’s that?

Screwfix opening at 0700 tomorrow.
Usually stock replacement concealed cistern and levers and flush cones and flush pipe and iso valves and Flexi connector and grout
All you need is a multi tool and plunger blades

more helpfully, if it’s leaking, turn isolator off on cistern supply and flush with a bucket until repaired to avoid/minimise water damage

I’ve got to defend the Plumbers here. It’s London (not stated if its central or outer). There will be ULEZ charge, and then probably, a large fee for parking, if any is available.It’s a concealed cistern, the work of Satan. I doubt he’ll have the parts on him, but if it is broken, he will have to look at it first to see what size and shape it is, then get stuck in traffic for an hour or more to get one. Then try to find another parking place, and pay again. £100 an hour is reasonable, £1000 for a cistern change could be too expensive, I’d say £600 is reasonable if the Plumbers Merchants is within 5 minutes and there is decent parking a short walk away.
To those who think its easy running a small business, why aren’t you doing it? I can pretty much guarantee that even if he quoted £1k to change it, he wont be on £90k a year. From the £1000 to change it, £180ish is VAT, parts could easily be £100+, ULEZ, what £15?, Parking, £30-50, suddenly without even accounting for his insurance, vehicle costs, tools, holiday pay and pension etc he is down to less than £650 for a job that will take most of the day. That sounds a good rate for a day, but its a job with no security, and it definitely will not be £650 every day. Site work is currently paying around £35/hr in London, thats far easier than running a small plumbing business, and you dont have to deal with the general public asking how you can charge so much for a simple job. As above, if its that simple, why arent there many more thousands of tradesmen making £90k a year?

thestabiliserFree Member
If your child can’t perform simple plumbing tasks for themselves then, frankly, you have failed dismally as a parent and ought to be thoroughly ashamed.

i knew it was my fault 🙂

the cistern is already exposed cos he has already replaced some other bit which only cot £500. I get that travel round London is a nightmare, but I can’t really see that it makes a bog costs a thousand quid !!