So I’ve got my mojo back and bought a bike. It came with a Rock Shox Monarch. I don’t get on with those so it’s gone.

Looking for a new shock for a 140mm rear / 150mm front frame. I keep having piggyback type shocks suggested to me (DPX2 and DVO Topaz).

However, I had an RP23 on my Blur LT and, to be honest, it did everything I needed. I’m not what I would call an enduro rider, don’t do drops or jumps and need all the support I can get going uphill.

Do I really need a piggyback? From what I can tell the piggyback is really there to keep the shock working well over prolonged descents / repeated hits. Would the DPS be a good like for like option for the the older RP23?

The piggyback just provides somewhere for the oil to go when the shock displaces it. Similarly new Metric shocks with longer bodies do this better in the body itself.

I used to blow shocks up regularly whenever I visited the Peak or Lake district  so would recommend a piggyback, but if that’s not a problem then an inline shock is fine.

Not at all necessary.

Depends on a few things – weight, riding style, where you ride and preference.

If you’re heavy, ride aggressively and regularly ride lumpy 10 minute plus descents you might begin to notice the rear end becoming less controlled and possibly a bit noisy. My RP23 used to start ‘quacking’.

In practice given your description, probably not required for you. I’m 90 kilos and only notice my RP23 starting to struggle halfway down fast lumpy stuff like Stickspass and Llanberis descent. It also showed itself in Spain where the descents were as long as the lakes but ambient temperatures were higher. On slower more techy stuff that I generally prefer, the shocks generally working less hard and it doesn’t show itself.

I’ve got a piggyback DPX2 now and it was a conscious decision, but I was replacing my full susser and the question was ‘why wouldn’t you have a piggy back?’

IMO there’s nowhere outside of the Lakes, Snowdonia and Scotland that’s big enough to make it a real issue in the UK. Maybe a couple of Peak descents in a very hot summer.

It looks enduro and if you are not enduro you can be more enduro without riding enduro

I think the topaz gets a lot of recommendations because it’s a really good shock in the same price range as a Monarch or DBAir. Also user serviceable so lower running costs than most. It’s top of my list to replace my Monarch shock this year. I don’t care whether it’s piggyback or not.

Yeah but they look cool!

Am I being a luddite? I have the idea that piggyback shocks are more downhilly type shocks and not that great for climbing?

I think that’s a lingering impression from when they first appeared on bikes like the Nomad.

A piggy back just gives more space for oil, which allows it to run more consistently because more oil takes longer to heat up, and cools quicker outboard of the main shaft. More useful in DH applications because of intensity of use, but not un-useful for trail riding in certain circumstances.

It in itself doesn’t affect ride quality.

It in itself doesn’t affect ride quality.

Depends on the shock, my float 200×57 used to ramp up a lot even with a high volume can. Figured it was probably the tiny volume left for the IFP/nitrogen at the end of the shaft which acts as an extra air spring. Dhx-air never seemed to have that problem. Neither did the 200×50. So it can have an impact.

I think as scieneceofficer said, do you have any reason not to get a piggyback shock? Even if you don’t need it, it doesn’t do any harm other than weighing about a mars bar more. The exception to that would be if you tried to run a RS Vivid air. Or Fox Float X2 (not the Dpx2) which are properly DH/enduro biased shocks and might hinder climbing.

Piggyback v Non Piggback Shocks

Ignore the advice that piggybacks don’t affect ride quality.

Great article. It’s that “wallowy” feeling I want to avoid.

You’ll be better off with an inline shock IMO. Not all piggyback shocks are wallowy of course, but they may need more tweaking and faffing to get the feel you want.

All the fastest bikes I’ve owned for “normal” singletrack-y riding had inline shocks. I’ve only ridden a (used) Fox DPS Performance for a few months but I was quite impressed, it was definitely on the perky end of the spectrum.

If you’re getting one of those discount German ones, it’s a bit of a no-brainer.

what is wrong with the current RS shock you have?

Nothing per se Poah. I had one on a Hightower I demo’d over the summer and found it less supportive than I would like. Just developed a dislike from that.

no you’ve got no reason to not try it then.   is it an RT3?

Sold it already Poah.

Piggyback shocks aren’t walloweyer, if anything they are more controlled and if not add a few clicks of LSC ..    how hard is that. Also, every inline ive owned spiked so badly, they would rip my feet off my flats.

What bike do you have and what size of shock?

Good price (relatively) on dvo topaz on CRC if u got the right size.

If my new shock wasn’t pesky metric/trunion moubt I’d be all over one (colour would match my frame) tbh my new bikes got an rt3 that’s been fine so far, but now I’ve got my Yari all custom whizbang, I want to fettle with the rear!

I had one on a Hightower I demo’d over the summer and found it less supportive than I would like

just whack a few bottomless rings in, or if you need even more support get the compression tuning changed if you’re particularly heavy etc though the manufacturer will specified the monarch damping tuning to suit the suspension design.

Great article. It’s that “wallowy” feeling I want to avoid.

I think you’re fixating on the wrong point in the article.

It’s wallowy because the damper can’t control the oil as much as would be optimal. You could mimic that with a piggyback shock or use the extra damping control to control the “wallow” properly.

Note that an inline and piggyback shock can be very similar.  Part of reason for ‘metric’ shocks is to gain another 15-20mm of shock body for the IFP.  Or alternatively the CCDB shocks don’t just damp the oil into the piggyback (almost all other shocks are what’s called a de-carbon damper which only adjusts the overflow) the oil circulates back into the shock continually meaning much more adjustment is possible, so the piggyback is incidental, you can build very different shock designs that look the same on the outside (or similar ones that look different hence cane creek making inline versions now with the IFP in the body)

@ poah it’s an Intense Recluse and shock size is 200 x 50

Note that an inline and piggyback shock can be very similar.  Part of reason for ‘metric’ shocks is to gain another 15-20mm of shock body for the IFP.  Or alternatively the CCDB shocks don’t just damp the oil into the piggyback (almost all other shocks are what’s called a de-carbon damper which only adjusts the overflow) the oil circulates back into the shock continually meaning much more adjustment is possible, so the piggyback is incidental, you can build very different shock designs that look the same on the outside (or similar ones that look different hence cane creek making inline versions now with the IFP in the body)

Supposedly, from what I have gathered from vorsprung, the downside to twin tube shocks that rely on spring loaded blow off valves to control compression is that by the time the valve actually reacts and opens up much of the harshness has been fed back to the rider. Which is why I assume that whilst Ohlins kept the twin tube recirculating design, they relied much more on old school shim stacks with the TTX22. Whilst my DHX2 is great, the idea of a spring loaded poppet valve for the high speed compression that blows off in a platformy fashion has always struck me as wrong. Surely you want nice and open low speed porting that allows the shock to move in response to low displacement/amplitude events (small bumps) and a highly progressive shimstack that opens up in a more controlled fashion and resists big hits?

Stick a coil on it

Recluse uses a 200 x 57

Sure? Saddleback say 200 x 51?

I’m sure. Click on tech specs in the link below – it was the same in 2017

https://uk.intensecycles.com/collections/trail/products/intense-recluse-mountain-bike-pro-2018

I would certainly have given the Monarch a go personally, especially if it was the RT3. However if it’s gone, you could pick up a cheap Fox DPS here…

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/search?q=200×57

You’ll have to do the legwork on getting one with a suitable tune though.

Good job you posted on here anyway, or you’d have been riding round with 122mm of travel and probably not realised it.

Stick a coil on it

Did you actually read the OP?

Supposedly, from what I have gathered from vorsprung, the downside to twin tube shocks that rely on spring loaded blow off valves

They can and do use both. The main piston in the shock body still has a shim stack (cane Creek has compression and rebound, fox only has compression) so you could think of the dampers as being low speed through the needle valve, mid speed through the shim stack and the poppet valves for almost fully open on square edge hits.

Not sure if you’d be able to feel them opening though, the fox/CC design looks like the increase in piston area as they open should open very quickly (as fast as the oil flowing through them) as soon as the threshold is reached.

The equivoaction over the DPX2 fitting has really thrown a spanner in the works. I am now sort of regretting selling the Rock Shox as keeping it would have made life a lot simpler.

Did you actually read the OP?

Yes, why?

Yes, why?

Coil vs Air is a different debate to the effects of a piggy back on a shock. The OP is asking if a piggy back is necessry for trail use.

That, and the OP has a strong XC bias.

Not sure if you’d be able to feel them opening though, the fox/CC design looks like the increase in piston area as they open should open very quickly (as fast as the oil flowing through them) as soon as the threshold is reached.

Still, surely preloading a coil spring (the poppet valve) is like preloading a spring, it will take a certain amount of force before the spring moves at all.

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>shooterman
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Sure? Saddleback say 200 x 51?

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Its definitely a 57mm mate a that’s what you sent me. 😀

Let’s hope so!

I’m 99.99% sure mate from all the googling.

Will contact you asap to confirm. 🙂

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Coil vs Air is a different debate to the effects of a piggy back on a shock. The OP is asking if a piggy back is necessry for trail use.

The op is ultimately looking for a new shock.  DVO make a good air shock in the topaz, the fact it has a piggyback is irrelevant.

That, and the OP has a strong XC bias.

he has the wrong bike then.