Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 94 total)
  • Petition for General Election.
  • zippykona
    Full Member

    Sign this if you would like to choose who runs the country.
    144000 so far which is more than the 86000 **** who voted for the BlunderTruss.
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619781

    oldenough
    Free Member

    As nice as that would be,I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    And they’ve already responded to say no. 144k is less than half of the (Labour dominant) London borough within which I live, it’s hardly representative of a countrywide outcry.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.

    The petition, or the current government?

    oldenough
    Free Member

    I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.

    The petition, or the current government?

    Both ☹

    jp-t853
    Full Member

    But what if everyone signed it
    What if it made lots of people feel active about a shitty situation
    Changes have to start somewhere, this might just be part of the avalanche but apathy doesn’t do anything

    stumpyjon
    Full Member

    Signed it, probably totally pointless but there’s not much else I can do. Went up by over 100 whilst I signed.

    piemonster
    Full Member

    As nice as that would be,I’m not sure that’s how things work. Completely pointless.

    Its a passive protest, itll never actually happen as a response to the petition alone but it forces someone in Parliament to acknowledge x amount signed a petition asking for y.

    Its absolutely one of those things never to be viewed in isolation and always in combinations including direct comms to your MP, internal party dissent, the economy catching fire, polling etc etc

    silentgrunt
    Full Member

    Signed – better than doing nothing! Will share too no harm in it

    csb
    Full Member

    If nothing else it will give Rayner ammo to hit them with.

    raincloud
    Free Member

    You seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……

    At least 86000 party members actually voted this time….

    hels
    Free Member

    Not pointless at all! Imagine if 50 million people signed it …

    lunge
    Full Member

    I wonder if the more people that sign it, the less chance there’ll be of an election. Most people who sign it will want change, which gives several thousand reasons for a Tory government not to do what it says.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    You seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……

    I assume that you didn’t read the petition. It refers to an “unprecedented crises”, a fair analysis imo. I not aware of a previous situation in which a new prime minister and government has caused an economic crisis within 2 weeks of taking office.

    The petition isn’t calling for a general election because there has been a change of Prime Minister but because there has been a complete change of economic direction. The mandate from the previous general election is clearly no longer valid.

    When Gordon Brown became Prime Minister his government maintained exactly the same economic policies as the previous government of Tony Blair. It didn’t cause an “unprecedented crises” due to a change in policy. Brown could reasonably argue that the mandate that Labour had secured in the previous general election was still valid.

    Edit: Just to add – apart from my above points the fact that Gordon Brown didn’t call a general election when he became PM is completely irrelevant unless it is Gordon Brown himself who has started this petition.

    Edit 2 : No I’ve just checked and it wasn’t Gordon Brown who launched this petition it’s apparently some geezer called Darrin Charlesworth.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    What if / imagine…

    They have though have they, and it’s been around a while.

    andrewh
    Free Member

    I assume that you didn’t read the petition. It refers to an “unprecedented crises”, a fair analysis imo. I not aware of a previous situation in which a new prime minister and government has caused an economic crisis within 2 weeks of taking office.

    Although not economic ones, Churchill and Lloyd-George both inherited bigger crisis. However, they did handle it somewhat better than Truss appears to be doing…

    ads678
    Full Member

    Signed. We really need to start trying to do something in this country rather than just shrugging our shoulders and saying, “meh, it’ll never change…..”

    ads678
    Full Member

    Although not economic ones, Churchill and Lloyd-George both inherited bigger crisis. However, they did handle it somewhat better than Truss appears to be doing…

    Yeah but Truss has caused this one!

    devash
    Free Member

    Ooooooh how very British! Disgruntled public signs petition. That’ll show those out of touch politicians.

    I can only see two legitimate ways out of this;

    1. Co-ordinated civil disobedience and mass strikes.

    2. Wait two years and vote the fekkers out at the next GE.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    I can only see two legitimate ways out of this;

    1. Co-ordinated civil disobedience and mass strikes.

    2. Wait two years and vote the fekkers out at the next GE.

    I am surprised that you missed the most likely scenario, and the one which probably happen.

    As mounting public opposition to Liz Truss’s premiership continues to grow, made obvious by opinion polls giving Labour 30 point leads and petitions calling for an immediate general election, Tory MPs are forced to act and eventually replace Truss with someone who reverses her mad economic policies.

    SuperScale20
    Free Member

    Pointless rubbish don’t you have work to do.

    molgrips
    Full Member

    But what if everyone signed it

    They already know damn well their government is extremely unpopular. This petition won’t do a thing.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Tory MPs are forced to act and eventually replace Truss with someone who reverses her mad economic policies.

    Interesting to speculate who they’d choose next! Every new PM has been considerably worse than the one before, so it’s going to be quite a challenge for them to keep the trend going – JRM perhaps, Nadine Doris?

    imnotverygood
    Full Member

    Don’t joke about it too much footflaps. The way things are going I could see it happening

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    They already know damn well their government is extremely unpopular.

    Well I have only learnt in the last 24 hours the sheer scale of the current government’s unpopularity, it’s actually taken me back a bit.

    The question is whether this level of unpopularity will be maintained or whether after a while things will ease off.

    The Tories can afford a certain level of unpopularity 2 years before a general election.

    Maintaining the pressure will be effective even if it’s only because publicly expressed unpopularity tends to create more unpopularity.

    If people are aware that something they dislike is unpopular it re-enforces their own opinion. If they feel that they are part of an insignificant minority they start to question their own judgement.

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    Tory MPs are forced to act and eventually replace Truss with someone who reverses her mad economic policies.

    Just wondering if there is another change of leader and yet another Govt with no mandate, at which point is it deemed that this is actually a constitutional crisis and a General Election must be called ?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Are they any examples in which a sitting government has ever acted on one of these petitions? I thought they were just a way to divert protest into an ignorable form?

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Just wondering if there is another change of leader and yet another Govt with no mandate, at which point is it deemed that this is actually a constitutional crisis and a General Election must be called ?

    When was the last time you got to vote for the prime minister?

    Also in what strange world is calling a GE, and the huge uncertainty that causes along with the slump in markets in any way a solution to the crisis this is supposed to solve?
    What happens if Truss wins that election? Does that solve the crisis? What happens if it turns out that the next PM is worse? That Labour’s plans (because I’m guessing this is really just a we want a labour govt. petition) don’t add up or work in practice? What happens when (since it’s a GE and that’s how these things work) both parties promise massive funding for X Y Z, lots of spending, no tax increases etc because it looks good on the front page of the mail/guardian and it makes things worse?

    hels
    Free Member

    I have been reading an excellent book recently “the Blunders of our Government” it is a bit old now and will need 3 more volumes for Brexit, but an interesting insight into Thatcher and how cocky and risk happy she got towards the end (poll tax!). I didn’t live here then so this is all education to me. Truss has just started nearly at the end on her Thatcher journey.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Part of me would like Liz and Kwassi to chop away for another year or two making the Tory party totally unelectable for another decade.

    Another part of me worries that if given enough time they might right the boat a bit and that would be enough for the blue-rinse brigade and swivel eyed loons to forgive, forget and vote for their own destruction…

    The main problem is the longer they persisting power the more damage they potentially do and the more they hurt those most vulnerable to it…

    Let’s see how many people sign the petition by the end of the weekend before calling it pointless?

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    because I’m guessing this is really just a we want a labour govt. petition

    Why are you guessing that? The guy who started the petition might be a member of the Liberal Democrats, or an SNP supporter.

    What is certain is that the petition isn’t backing Liz Truss.

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    When was the last time you got to vote for the prime minister?

    But we’re not just getting a new PM are we ? By Kwarteng’s own admission last week, this is a new Government. Obviously an attempt to distance themselves from the previous mess but they can’t have it both ways. This Government has no mandate for the decisions that they are taking and presumably neither will another new one.

    Also in what strange world is calling a GE, and the huge uncertainty that causes along with the slump in markets in any way a solution to the crisis this is supposed to solve?

    At this point in time I would imagine that the prospect of a stable Starmer Government with an actual plan would calm things down immeasurably

    What happens if Truss wins that election?

    Seriously ?

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    The guy who started the petition might be a member of the Liberal Democrats, or an SNP supporter

    That’s very true, yes, but I don’t think anyone expects either of those to form a UK government. The SNP don’t stand in enough seats to do so for starters.

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    this is a new Government

    Well you’ve never voted for a government either. Actually since QE is now dead, no one alive has ever even agreed to one.

    Seriously ?

    Boris won one…
    Brexit happened…
    The electorate have demonstrated several times in the last ten years alone they can’t really be relied upon to not do the apparently stupid.

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    That’s very true, yes, but I don’t think anyone expects either of those to form a UK government.

    No but the purpose of the petition is to challenge the legitimacy of Liz Truss’s government and demand that it seeks a mandate from the people.

    The fact that a general election might result in a Labour government is not necessarily the driving force behind the petition, although it is a likely consequence.

    andrewh
    Free Member

    Also in what strange world is calling a GE, and the huge uncertainty that causes along with the slump in markets in any way a solution to the crisis this is supposed to solve?
    <blockquote/>
    It worked for Teresa May, she got her ‘strong and stable’ government…

    dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    I think we’ll disagree for sometime on which of those is a happy consequence and which is the purpose Ernie, maybe I’m just much more cynical about the electorate!

    ernielynch
    Free Member

    an interesting insight into Thatcher and how cocky and risk happy she got towards the end (poll tax!).

    I can’t comment on the book but Thatcher was very cocky and risk happy from the start of her premiership.

    The most famous quote attributed to Thatcher “the lady’s not for turning” she said in 1980 at a Conservative Party Conference, in response to many in her party calling on her to preform a U-turn on her monetarist economic policies which were making a every serious situation much worse.

    The Tories won the 1979 general election under the slogan “Labour isn’t working” due to there being 1.5 million unemployed at the time. Thatcher’s policies pushed unemployment to over 3 million and many felt that rising unemployment, especially in the industrial heartlands such as the Midlands which had swung to the Tories, was political suicide.

    Her policies towards the Falklands Islands were extremely high risk. She initially stripped Falkland islanders of their full British citizenship and withdrew naval presence in the area sending a green light to the Argentine junta that she felt little committment to the islands. When Argentina invaded she was determined not to have a diplomatic solution and instead fight a very risky war.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/apr/03/falklands.world

    https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-falklands-gamble

    Her year long confrontation with the miners was also high risk. She relied very heavily on the Nottinghamshire highly productive coalfields carrying on working to supply just sufficient coal to add to what had been stockpiled in preparation for the strike. Had Notts miners joined the strike there is a real possibility that Britain would have ground to a halt and she would have been forced to either negotiate, call a general election (which she probably would have lost) or resign.

    The Poll Tax was simply the gamble which backfired on her and finished her off.

    Perhaps Liz Truss draws her inspiration from Margret Thatcher’s resolute determination. The question is does she feel lucky? Thatcher got lucky.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    The electorate have demonstrated several times in the last ten years alone they can’t really be relied upon to not do the apparently stupid.

    The Labour party did a very good job, with Corbyn, of making itself unelectable, so people didn’t have an obvious ‘good’ choice…

    pondo
    Full Member

    Signed, FWIW.

    The Labour party Murdoch did a very good job, with Corbyn, of making itself him unelectable, so people didn’t have an obvious ‘good’ choice…

    Not to get onto that topic, but FTFY, IMHO.

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