Geetee – I loathe and despise religion and the religious, I believe all people who believe in god(s) are feeble minded.

I think the religious, religion and belief in god as an incredibly regressive, negative, dangerous and harmful mental illness. It is a force of incredible harm and holds back the human race.

Its not biogotry.

I believe all people who believe in god(s) are feeble minded

That’s a disgrace from a sensitive intelligent bloke such as yourself mate, seriously.

Geetee – I loathe and despise religion and the religious, I believe all people who believe in god(s) are feeble minded.

You think Newton, Boyle, Faraday and Einstein were feeble minded?

don’t 90% of the worlds population believe in a God or deity of some sort? So it exists as a human concept. you can’t prove a concept. You can’t prove or disprove “God” any more than you can prove or disprove “love”.

TJ are you being serious? I mean I always thought you were in favour of equality and fairness. Transpose the words religion or religious for gay for exaple and you’d get banned as well as (rightly ) flamed.

Please tell me you were joking. Really I haven’t always agreed with you buti never thought you were a biggot.

No molgrips – the attitudes of the god bothereres is an absolute disgrace.

I am not offensive to peoples faces and I behave with sensitivity in a house of worship.

But to be challenged by those professing moral superiority because they believe in fairy stories is offensive in the extreme.

they asked for it on this thread – would you rather I lied and said the belief in god is harmless? Its dangerous and its only for the feeble minded

Right, so even if the evidence was provided you would still look for a way to hold on to your pre-conception?

Provide me with the evidence. And I’ll check the experimental design.

What if the pack wasn’t flawed?

I would predict that the stats would indicate a 1 in 52 chance.

But to be challenged by those professing moral superiority because they believe in fairy stories offensive in the extreme

But that doesn’t happen here. In fact the reason we get into these arguments is because of the professed superiority of some of those who don’t believe in a god

In respect of religion yes they were feeble minded. Shall we list the other things they believed in their ignorance and hold them dear as well now?
Newton believed in alchemy for example
Einstein is debatable as I am sure you are well aware*.
I genuinely fail to understand why very bright people actually believe in god….bussom of the feeble minded, opium of the masses take your pick.
* debatable he believed in god not that he was a clever fellow obviously.

But to be challenged by those professing moral superiority because they believe in fairy stories offensive in the extreme.

I suspect that the religious people you are talking about are those in your imagination rather than those that I have seen here and elsewhere. Maybe it’s time to put down the keyboard down for the evening?

Provide me with the evidence. And I’ll check the experimental design.

Ok, but I doubt you would treat it with the same academic rigour as those who have already reviewed it

http://www.stat.ucdavis.edu/~utts/air2.html

I genuinely fail to understand why very bright people actually believe in god.

That bit is fine, but then it leaves you ill-informed to call them feeble minded in that respect

TJ you appear to continue to go down the “losing it” route.

As a friend, take a break.

“If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.”

You can say it is feeble minded but much of our society only seems to function if there is someone to blame.

* debatable he believed in god not that he was a clever fellow obviously

I wouldn’t have said so, but the very fact that you say otherwise just proves it. I don’t say we should hold ideas of Alchemy or god dear just because Newton or others believed in it, but it does soemwhat undermine the argument that people who believe in god / gods are feeble minded doesn’t it.

TJ you’ve lost the plot. My parents are both Christians as is my wife and they’ve never proselytised to anyone and they aren’t feeble minded. I don’t they’re right but I don’t have a patent on the truth and neither do you. Yes lots of people commit horrible crimes and prejudice in the name of god but you seem to be saying that because a few have then they are all guilty.

Honestly TJ you’ve been really offensive in this thread. You’ve offended me because you’re being so utterly derrogotary towards people I care about and I can’t believe you have the temerity to come on here and shout about equality and tolerance in other threads and then here throw stones at one group just because of their beliefs.

TJ you’re a hypocrit.

TJ you’re a hypocrite.

Amen to that, and I think Ton would agree.

Ok, but I doubt you would treat it with the same academic rigour as those who have already reviewed it

Had a quick read….couldn’t find any reference to playing cards?

Belief in supernatural beings without any evidence is not a rational position.

Religion and teh religious cause such huge problems in our society thena they are only a to be pitied and despised for the3 harm they cause.

skim read it not many references for some reason
Are you aware of the james randi educational trust and their $1 million dollar prize- no one has proven anything under empirical conditions.7
My favourite was a woamn who said she could make you wee by the power of her mind and jesus gave her this power 😯
there is a list of challenges and correspondence for all challengers and outcomes somewhere as well

Geetee – theere is no bigotry or hypocrisy in my position.

Had a quick read….couldn’t find any reference to playing cards?

Ok, but just try to focus on the evidence and see if you change your mind

Some discussion of Dr Utts here.

Hardly credible science. Of course if it was a real effect it would be easy for other researchers to duplicate the results…?

it does soemwhat undermine the argument that people who believe in god / gods are feeble minded doesn’t it

Also proves they believed in stupid things so it depends…the evidence supports both views here I would say

there is intolerance though. let people believe whatever they want so long as it don’t hurt nobody, so what!. Live and let live.

I genuinely fail to understand why very bright people actually believe in god.

Keep ramming the same message/s to enough people, allow sufficent time and generations and eventually you’ll get a few takers – then a critical mass will develop – then it’s becomes the norm.

TJ you’re making assumptions about all religious people based on the acts of a fraction of all religious people.

That’s the very definition of prejudice.

Some discussion of Dr Utts here.

Hardly credible science. Of course if it was a real effect it would be easy for other researchers to duplicate the results…?

Did you read it? I t was a meta-study! The whole point was that lots of researchers have duplicated the results! The worst i saw on a skim of that site was that she was a believer in ESP. Yes, because she used a statistical approach to analysing the evidence and it left no alternative.

I’ll accept intolerance – the problem is religions and belief in god causes so much pain and suffering. It is not a harmless delusion.

Geetee – no it is not and that is not what I am doing.

I have friends I care deeply about that believe in god.

she was a believer in ESP. Yes, because she used a statistical approach to analysing the evidence and it left no alternative

Sounds interesting, I’ll take time to read it – sometime.

The whole point was that lots of researchers have duplicated the results

It’s all research from a single site. Allegedly she was a believer in ESP before conducting the study.

Also proves they believed in stupid things so it depends…the evidence supports both views here I would say

No, they could not have achieved what they achieved if they were feeble minded. Unless of course we have different definitions of ‘feeble-minded’

Religion and teh religious cause such huge problems in our society thena they are only a to be pitied and despised for the3 harm they cause.

Well which is it? It cannot be both, especially if there is “theere is no bigotry or hypocrisy in [your] position”

I have friends I care deeply about that believe in god.

Are they feeble minded as well? Do you loathe them?

It seems to me a belief in God centralizes religous thinking whereas the notion of ESP does not.

Now that’s a statement I can agree with TJ. It does cause a lot of pain and suffering although so do a lot of thing and many of them are opposites like capitalism and socialism, democracy and dictatorship. The opposite of one wrong or flawed ideology is not inherently correct. Indeed in many cases it is equally as flawed usually because the doctrine is touted with the same fervour and unswerving belief that this is the one true way.

It’s all research from a single site. Allegedly she was a believer in ESP before conducting the study.

You have to read it really, if you want to comment on it.

Also, she is a well respected statistics researcher. Keynote speaker at stats conferences, on tis topic amngst others. so the ad hominem stuff really doesn’t wash

the problem is religions and belief in god causes so much pain and suffering

but it also alleviates pain and suffering, yet you never make any mention of that

Also, she is a well respected statistics researcher.

The stats aren’t the issue.

The stats aren’t the issue.

No, really, they are. You have to read the paper.

Charlie – does anyone else back her? I have never seen another piece of research that shows any evidence for ESP. Was it peer reviewed?