Party wall. DIY schedule of Condition?

Next door are having an extension done. It’s giong to come within a foot or two of a garden wall and garage. Both the wall and garage are about 70years old, but brick build and seem solid enough to my untrained eye.

So the question is, can I do DIY my own Schedule of Condition, or should I get the pros in? I’m thinking of just taking many many pictures. My feeling is that the outcome will be obvious, and will either be fine, ie unchanged no damage, or the wall/garagage fall down.

Any thoughts?

England? Sounds like something covered by the Party Wall Act.

Yep, England. The party wall act doesn’t require a schedule of condition. It’s optional. And from what I’ve read, a pro version is going to be little more than a bunch of photos to show current condition, ie cracks etc.

If they do it as they should they will be digging probably deeper than any garden wall /garage foundation leaving your work dangling in mid air for a while if it’s only 300mm -600mm away

Could cause problems for you, they should have an engineer involved or maybe not but you do need engineering drawings in Scotland for that to pass

They should have a party wall agreement in place and it is on them to do this to protect YOUR house and foundations from THEIR work.

It is time for you to have a nice chat with then and remind them of their responsibilities.

Yep, digging lower than my foundations, then laying their own foundations. I’m assuming this work will either cause wall/garage to fall down in an obvious way, or it will leave them unaffected. Somewhere inbetween these two outcomes is possible too, but again I think would be obvious, ie cracks appearing.

All I’m trying to do is the bare minimum to cover my position. So thinking if I do my own schedule of condition, consisting of a series of photos, thats likely to good enough to prove any change of condition following/during the work. I could get a surveyor in to do this, but no idea if that will be worth the cost or not.

I remember from planning an extension that I would have to pay for the survey and neighbour (you) can decline the surveyor suggested which could be played to your favour… we didn’t go ahead in the end

mj27, I dont think they’re trying to avoid any responsibility. And there isn’t any issues with what they are proposing from my perspective. It is recommended to have a schedue of condition drawn up, but it is not a requirement. I’m just wondering, should I get an expert in to do this, or can I do a half decent job with just photos.

jag61, in the documentation they’ve supplied to me, there is no mention that they would cover the cost of the schedule of condition. It just says that it is not a party wall requirement, but they advise one is prepared prior to work commencement.

Probably worth getting some actual advice ( home insurance legal cover?) contact a PWsurveyor for budget cost but you shouldn’t be out of pocket on this. In any event take loads of photos as works progress .we take 00’s at work (civil engineering) before during and after

I have been a party wall surveyor.

Firstly, as they are the ‘building owner’ under the act as they are doing the works. You are the ‘adjoining owner” under thr act as your property is affected by the works.

Secondly, under the act neither owner is allowed to act as a surveyor as they are not impartial. Any SoC you undertake isn’t worth the paper it’s written even if you have the best surveying letters after your name.

Thirdly as they are undertaking the works they have to:

1.appoint a surveyor under the act to serve notice of the works onto you

You can then:

A:Consent to the works

B: dissent to the works and have their surveyor act as agreed surveyor

C: appoint your own surveyor (who is paid for by the building owner NOT you.

If you take B or C then a party wall award will be prepared by the surveyor(s) which will include an SoC

Go down the proper route, seen it go wrong loads of times before!!!

Ah, nice one RavingDave. Any reason not to use their surveyor? Seems to be the least stress option.

Out of interest, the reply letter they’ve supplied is worded as follows…

<hr />

I hereby give consent to the aforementioned works (1)

And

I herby waive the outstanding notice periods (2)

Or

require you to underpin or strengthen to safeguard the foundations of my building (3)

and a difference having arisen, *agree in the appointment of/appoint as my surveyor (4)

of

…

to act on my behalf

*authorised to sign on behalf of the adjoining owner

<hr />

(bracketed number added by me). 1 and 2 make perfect sense. 3 makes it sound like I can force them to do work on my property, even though it probably doesn’t need it. And 4 just doesn’t make sense to me.

Would the above be pretty standard wording? And if I want to disent and use their surveyor to draw up award, which bits to I keep/redact?

FWIW, the neighbour should be serving a Notice of Adjacent Excavation under the PW Act, and should include a drawing showing the relative depth of their proposed foundation and yours. Otherwise you don’t know if your structures need underpinning or strengthening. As said by ravingdave, you can appoint you own surveyor or agree to theirs. Either way they pay the fees.

Just to be clear, nighbours have served the Notice, with drawings etc. It’s assumed that my wall/gargage don’t have any or much by way of foundations.

The notice says they do not propose any underpinning/strengthing work. Should I be pushing for this? Does a schedule of condition detail if its required?

If the wall was to collapse are they not responsible seeing as they have existed long time

A surveyor only becomes involved if a dispute arises (if you don’t reply to a notice or you dissent on the form. You can do your own Schedule of Condition but unless it is agreed by your neighbour in writing it is not worth much.

The guy doing the work is liable for paying for a surveyor or both if you want your own, but either way an engineer should be designing the new foundations and should have considered your wall/founds. If not a surveyor should ask the question as they are sort of “working on behalf of the wall”.

if you are concerned speak to a surveyor local to you. Generally they will advise for free prior to appointment. Look up surveyors on The Faculty of Party Wall Surveyors or Pyamus and Thisbe Society (or give me a shout if down in Brighton!!)

Thanks TimP, in Bath, so bit too far. The Notice comes from a FPWS member, so I’m happy they’re ligit.

Is it likely that they have considered my buildings during the design process, and decided nothing needs to be done? Would seem ridiculous to ignore my bits, untill I raise the issue, especially considering if they fell down and injured someone, it would be their responsibility.

Hi urbanhiker,

I would go for an option you are happy with. Agreed surveyor is a very common route I have operated under several times. The surveyor is still meant to be impartial. The award (whether by agreed or 2 surveyors) will protect your property and set out working methods, working times, hand dig areas etc. It will also append an independent SoC to record condition before works began.

Based on your description of the notice I would say that your n4 option is the appointment of either their surveyor as agreed surveyor or your own surveyor and enter appropriate details

Similar experience in past. Persuaded neighbour, who was going to build adjacent to the boundary to actually build astride the boundary which meant the extension wall effectively gave me the option to build off it if I wanted to (They were the other half of the semi-detatched house).

Also agreed to one surveyor doing the Party Wall paperwork for both. Only stipulation I made was that they were local so more invested in a good result

Also worth noting that the survey of condition protects both parties, so if cracks form after they start works you all know, what if they don’t survey, then you can say look cracks and blame builders and they wouldn’t know and could lead to more legal/survey fees, I am sure the PW surveyors could explain this more eloquently.

Many years ago, neighbours (work not mine) had a survey but left large wardrobes in place so not all walls surveyed/visible, they claimed cracks developed and thus asked for money, as mentioned above can get messy.

Survey will be a schedule of condition (with photos) and signed off at a date before works start, a good idea. Hopefully it will all go smoothly.

Nice one. This thread has really helped me understand the sensible way forward.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.