I put this in the running thread, but thought it may be of interest to a wider audience.

Seems odd I can meet people inside a pub/cinema but can do an organised run round the local park.

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2021/05/21/parkrun-to-delay-restart-of-5k-events-in-england/

Local Councils dragging their heels on permissions – a real shame, I miss it greatly!

Having been closely involved in getting one back up and running I can confirm the hoops we’re being asked to jump through and the bureaucracy is ridiculous.

A country with an obesity crisis and coming out of a pandemic surely needs all the free exercise provision they can get.

Parkrun is one of the few things in the world that is entirely positive and it should be brought back as soon as possible. It’s taken me a while but I’m  not far away from my 50 and am keen to get back to it .

the hoops we’re being asked to jump through and the bureaucracy is ridiculous.

That is one thing that bothers me about our “return to normal” – somehow, in a country run by bureaucrats, we have managed to add more layers of bureaucracy that aren’t going away.

I read a piece about it. Some local council are just terrified of large gatherings. There are stories of them(councils) imposing idiotic things like insisting that joining instructions for runners that specify temp washing guidance for kit post event, or evidence of vaccination.

What makes it even more daft, is that I marshalled at an MTB XC event on Wednesday, and there was no heavy handed council presence…Although the organiser at one point was heard to mutter under his breath “Christ I hope this doesn’t turn out to be a super-spreader event”

I’ve noticed that Delamere Forest are pushing their own running events (quite expensive). Don’t know if Parkrun will also be on

I think that long lines of people panting heavily while they run through everyone else’s vapour trails might cause a little concern.

Our council is scared of the unknowns that parkrun brings.

An organised running event knows how many people will turn up and roughly how long they’ll be there. Also, most runners finish an event and go home.

As you don’t need to register with parkrun you can have any number of people turn up and they tend to hand around for a chat afterwards. The cynic in me also says that parkrun don’t pay for the use of the facilities…

I think that long lines of people panting heavily while they run through everyone else’s vapour trails might cause a little concern.

parkrun paid for a load of research that suggested that, with a few small changes, the risk of transmission is tiny even in the start pens and at the finish.

Parkrun is one of the best public health initiatives we’ve ever had in the UK.

Bureaucrats putting obstacles in the way of its return should be ashamed. God, I sound like a Mail reader now.

Forestry England, I’m looking at you in particular. You manage our forests for our benefit, not yours.

I think that long lines of people panting heavily while they run through everyone else’s vapour trails might cause a little concern.

What’s the evidence that it’s actually a problem?

somehow, in a country run by bureaucrats, we have managed to add more layers of bureaucracy that aren’t going away.

I fear that one of the really negative long term effects of all this is that socially inadequate men in high vis jackets, wielding clipboards are dizzy on their new ‘powers’ and won’t be surrendering them lightly.

If you could just fill out this form in triplicate….

From what I’ve heard the issue is they don’t want to risk bringing back a subset of events incase those that do restart get overwhelmed. Sadly sounds like there is a lot of heel dragging going on getting landowner permission for a large number of events.

Our local junior has been back running for 3 weeks now, admittedly with a smaller target age group at the moment to keep the numbers down.

From what I’ve heard the issue is they don’t want to risk bringing back a subset of events incase those that do restart get overwhelmed.

Yup. Loads of councils have approved a restart in principle but as you say those events could be overwhelmed by runners from neighbouring areas that haven’t had approval.

I fear that one of the really negative long term effects of all this is that socially inadequate men in high vis jackets, wielding clipboards are dizzy on their new ‘powers’ and won’t be surrendering them lightly.

If you want an interesting, if tough, read on the theory of self-perpetuating systems of miserable governance, I reccommend the “Power of the Powerless”, by Vaclav Havel. Admittedly a bit over the top, as he lived through the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia, but his ideas are very interesting. One of his observations is that, in any given system of oppressive governance, the higher up you are, you become increasingly beholden to the unwritten rules and norms. This makes those at the top, in a way, less powerful, not more so.

I’m in mixed feelings about it, it’s obviously very different between events where some only got 50 people and others get 700+. There is no way that 700 runners can keep a distance from each other over narrow paths.

Also some of the extra tasks that the volunteers have been asked to do seem onerous / don’t make sense such as washing tokens / hi viz vests – if these are left untouched between weekends the chance of transmission is minute.

Runner here. I’m sure ParkRun is a positive thing generally, but why can’t people just go for a normal, unorganised run? Seems to be a growing trend of organisations sectioning/annexing off large parts of the park with Hi Viz, obnoxious music, people shouting encouraging slogans like YOU’RE SMASHING IT, YOU’VE GOT THIS! etc etc, gazebo structures/flags etc, and then all the vehicles to get all the stuff onto the park.

Moan over 🙂

Hey don’t worry, just go and pay £22 for a licensed Forestry Run as ran by Forestry England or Scotland!!

Sounds like a great idea, said no one ever!!!!

people shouting encouraging slogans like YOU’RE SMASHING IT, YOU’VE GOT THIS!

I blame the Peloton adverts

Loads of councils have approved a restart in principle but as you say those events could be overwhelmed by runners from neighbouring areas that haven’t had approval.

Totally get this, but couldn’t they just cap the number of participants? Then if they are over-subscribed have different people the following week?

why can’t people just go for a normal, unorganised run?

They can, and many do.

This is more about institutional reluctance to resume activities in accordance with the UK Gov roadmap.

I’m sure ParkRun is a positive thing generally, but why can’t people just go for a normal, unorganised run?

*parkrun (small p, one word…)

They can, and most do.

But there’s something very nice about meeting people once a week on the same course with a bigger group of like minded people. People like an event to aim at, and to be able to see their progression. I know plenty of people who wouldn’t be running every week were it not for their Saturday parkrun to aim at.

The courses aren’t sectioned of either, they are open for public use even when the events take place.

And the whooping and cheering might not be for you, but for many its really encouraging and an important part of why they do it.

pathetic petty bureaucracy prevents positivity

The cynic in me also says that parkrun don’t pay for the use of the facilities…

A few years ago I was involved in securing Govt endorsement of the Parkrun model (and issuing the steer to Local Authorities that enabling organised runs on their green space was “a good thing”).

The argument that Parkrun don’t pay for use/damage was common. Easily dismissed as the participants are usually local (certainly national) taxpayers whose space it is.

Where there is a problem is the runs in remoter places with few residents, where an influx of outsiders creates damage to e.g. footy pitches that the local town council etc. have to pick up with no added funds.

Seems to be a growing trend of organisations sectioning/annexing off large parts of the park with Hi Viz, obnoxious music, people shouting encouraging slogans like YOU’RE SMASHING IT, YOU’VE GOT THIS! etc etc, gazebo structures/flags etc, and then all the vehicles to get all the stuff onto the park.

Which park runs that then ? None of the ones I’ve done have been like that.

Mostly it’s a person with a megaphone who basically lays out the rules. Congratulates some folk who did a load of parkruns and then shouts go. At the other end there’s about 20ft of tape to corral folk past a specific set of people.

Park -even the course is open to all and the non runners right of way at all times.

It’s about as minimal as you could get.

The cynic in me also says that parkrun don’t pay for the use of the facilities…

You know that users don’t pay to park run either.

If you can’t see the benifit to society of getting a few hundred folk (at each event)mobile and motivated to run and better them selves then your a little blinkered.

Maybe englandshire do it different though

I am disappointed at this but not at all surprised at some landowners’ reluctance to give permission given the nature of an event where numbers aren’t limited. And to be fair, although I want to return to my regular parkrun, I have been concerned about the risk myself and wasn’t sure if I would have returned straight away.

Totally get this, but couldn’t they just cap the number of participants? Then if they are over-subscribed have different people the following week?

How do you propose to stop runners using their local park? Aside from that, it would require a whole new bureaucracy and takes us away from the ethos of “turn up and run”.

Same reason why some people can’t ride their bikes without driving to a trail centre to follow some arrows…the idea of going and doing it yourself and thinking about it all is daunting to some people so having this put on for them and ‘guiding’ them suddenly makes it very appealing and easier to do – the social aspect of having people around you doing it at the same time also helps.

An example of this from a biking point of view – a remote friend has been a bike for 30+ years and has lived in the area all his life – but has never taken his bike up the local hills. Before becoming a parent, he did drive the 70 minutes to Glentress 3 times a week (twice during the week evenings and once at weekend) and thought that Glentress was ‘mountain biking’ (certainly a part of it)…he had no interest in going up the hills as it wasn’t signposted, no idea what the terrain or conditions would be like, etc., so he thought it was too hard – not the biking, just the process of going out in the hills as there was more prep and consideration needed.

He now has a 14 year old son who is heavily into mountain biking and he is now contacting mates to find out what there is to ride locally as his son wants to go do some hills locally. He has now found a reason to make what he considered ‘hard’ before (the unknown of natural stuff) a bit easier as he wants to encourage his kid and keep them biking – but without his son, he’d still be doing his Glentress runs weekly…

I suspect Parkrun runners have a chunk of them that have a similar idea – doing it on their own is too hard as they want some company, want to follow a route they don’t have to think about, etc. Having this organised thing to participate in has enabled them to get out and run and enjoy themselves.

Maybe englandshire do it different

Nah, of all the parkruns I’ve ever been to, it’s turn up, run, go home…maybe some polite clapping and encouragement from marshals or friends and family along for the fun.

How do you propose to stop runners using their local park?

I don’t. It would work on goodwill.

it would require a whole new bureaucracy

It’d require the organisers managing a list, which I expect they’d be prepared to do. Hardly the most onerous of the adaptations we’ve had to collectively make.

I have been concerned about the risk myself and wasn’t sure if I would have returned straight away.

Ultimately, people need to make a call on their own risks level, both at parkrun and in life in general.

All the research that has been done that suggests that it is safe and the risk of transmission is tiny. This combined with the government’s guidance on organised sport suggests that there are no real reasons for it not to go ahead. Yes, some people may decide not to attend, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t go ahead for others,

I’m probably lumping parkrun in unfairly with all the new ‘bootcamp’ things springing up then, and the new thing of large groups of lads exercising together in the park or at the gym, but not actually exercising. Just hogging the equipment standing around kind of slow-dancing on the spot, taking photos of each other for Instagram.

It’d require the organisers managing a list, which I expect they’d be prepared to do. Hardly the most onerous of the adaptations we’ve had to collectively make.

And how would that work with an event that has no sign on ?

Pay to use the park? High Viz/music/smashing it? Eh? Never seen that at any of the numerous parkruns I’ve done.

If we can have 50 folk in a church, there’s no reason to not have parkrun.

It’d require the organisers managing a list, which I expect they’d be prepared to do. Hardly the most onerous of the adaptations we’ve had to collectively make.

And how would you stop those not on the list from running anyway? Sounds incredibly onerous.

It’d require the organisers managing a list, which I expect they’d be prepared to do. Hardly the most onerous of the adaptations we’ve had to collectively make.

Wouldn’t work without large changes to the way parkrun currently operates. It’d require people to register in advance and there also to be a register of some kind on arrival. The first may be doable, the second would involve huge amounts of extra time from volunteers and resources, and would also likely cause gathering of people whilst they wait to check-in.

Not going to happen I’m afraid.

And how would you stop those not on the list from running anyway? Sounds incredibly onerous.

Easy. Make running on your own without membership of an organisation, a hi-viz tabard, high-power obnoxious headtorch, insurance and road- tax a crime.

And how would you stop those not on the list from running anyway?

As above, I wouldn’t.

Do it on trust. No sign on required.

Yes, a few extra might turn up but I’m confident you’d dissuade enough to keep numbers sensible.

It’d require the organisers managing a list, which I expect they’d be prepared to do. Hardly the most onerous of the adaptations we’ve had to collectively make.

It’d require a fundamental change to the ethos and model on which it operates, and a significant resource and time commitment from volunteers. All for something which isn’t actually necessary.

All they would have to do is set up a web-based registration like basically every other run in the UK already does with no problem, and only publish results for those on this list. Sure a handful of bandits might turn up, but not many. After all, they aren’t turning up and running now, and only a small proportion ever come without barcode, mostly by accident, so clearly the official results list is a large part of it for most participants. Plus, they are people who would have been explicitly asked not to attend – do you really think *most* parkrunners are so selfish that they would deliberately flout such a request?

Parkrun HQ have had a year to think this through and it’s a shame they aren’t prepared to even try to put on the 200+ parkruns that already have permission, with such a modest change to their procedures. They bleat on about how vitally important their events are to the mental and physical health of the nation, but stamp their feet and have a tantrum rather than do what they can to put the events back on. You can’t fix stupid…

The beauty of parkrun is that it doesn’t have any of that shite.

Turn up, be sociable (a struggle for some on here, granted), run, smile, go for cake, then home.