Parking Charge Notice

Looking for advice if anyone here can help please?

Stopped off at a pub a few weeks back for a quick pint after marshalling duties and had a PCN drop through the letterbox this morning for using their car park without registering.

Honestly did not know I needed to do this and am now fairly aggrieved I’m being asked to cough up despite being a genuine customer – unfortunately no evidence of a transactionon my banking app, can’t recall if I paid cash or someone else got the round in.

But it gets worse, just noticed the £60 discounted rate expired 11/09 yet I only got the notifciation this morning!

Thinking of appealing but would probably fall of deaf ears, do I have any grounds on recieving the PCN late – even though there’s no date on the envelope?

Were the signs easily visible ? If your going to cough up full now might as well drag it out

Appeal it will fall on deaf ears

Go to tribunal you have a 50/50chance of winning , was it dark ? legislation says you must be able to easily see the signs from a seated position in the car ….a tiny shitty sign 50 metres away wont cut it especially if its dark, signs must be a minimum size and easily visible upon entering the car park

We went to court with ours ,parking weasel failed to attend , won by default but adjudicator did say no way would parking company have won with what they presented which was a copied and pasted document they regularly use in their cash generation scheme, and he was more pissed that we dare take up the courts time with a trivial matter and they hadnt the decency to show

Another idea go back to pub point out you were a punter and can they have a word to get it put right

But it gets worse, just noticed the £60 discounted rate expired 11/09 yet I only got the notifciation this morning!

I would definitely appeal with regards to that.

IME need to register your car in a venue is clearly displayed and impossible to miss. Usually a very clear and large notice near the entrance. The legal requirement is probably just to display it outside in the carpark somewhere. But I would at least complain if they didn’t make it any clearer than that.

The whole point of a pub carpark is to encourage customers to use their pub, which is precisely why they don’t want non customers using them. But it is certainly not to piss off genuine customers!

Honestly can’t say if they were clear or not, but genuinely didn’t see them…just followed a mate in (haven’t spoken to him yet, he’s on holiday and don’t want spoil it), parked up and strolled to the bar…left 32 minutes later apparently.

I could contact the pub but I expect they won’t want to get involved, even thought CCTV may show me walking in or something -we have the timestamp of our arrival afterall so could be easy to check if anyone was bothered enoguh to help.

I take it ignoring isn’t a valid approach these days?

If I make contact with them and lose the appeal where would I go from there?

Well that was worth the phonecall to the pub, they asked me to email the details in and they’ll get it cancelled…fingers crossed!

Sounds promising but keep a note of correspondence, actions and phone calls, times dates etc. just in case it goes further

Yeah shall do cheers, she more or less completed my sentence for me so I guess they must get it a lot.

They can oly charge you the ticket price plus their costs , ours was looking at a 300 quid bill all in 120 for the ticket and 180 for their costs which is bizzarre as the court small claims bill was 80 quid

We took a gamble as we could afford it and thought you f…… can work for your money rather than us give it to you

Put a very carefully photographed 36 pages of  them document together  video showing no signs on entry photos in the same lighting conditions , detailed positions where we were parked and the distances to the nearest signs , ours was round a corner and you would need to go looking

It took a good few hours to put together and my hourly rate for that was 120 an hour ( which i corroborated with my hourly rate for my job) argued that as well as the courts time being wasted they had wasted mine and could I claim for costs ,

Turns out they didnt have planning permission for the signs or anpr pole so got their arses handed to them by the council planning dept, id read about it but no one had ever been done for it in court , they didnt show anyway so adjudication bloke ignored it , gave me my costs for my time that morning though not for the document creation , where he kind of smiled and went really? I took it as a wink to sod off while i was ahead

I take it ignoring isn’t a valid approach these days?

No. I think it might worth talking to the pub management, ultimately they don’t want to scare customers away.

I assume that the pub might be able to cancel the PCN but I am not 100% sure how their contract with the company which enforces the rules is set up. I think they will argue that the company gets the money not them.

I know that Morrisons will consider cancelling a charge if you overstay the permitted time if you show them a receipt to prove that you are a genuine customer, it is primarily aimed at non customers who just use the carpark for somewhere to leave their car.

Edit: Just seen the positive response from the pub. Well done!

HazeFull Member
Well that was worth the phonecall to the pub, they asked me to email the details in and they’ll get it cancelled…fingers crossed!

Hurrah! Stuff like this reminds me that the world isn’t entirely populated by ****s! :)

Thanks chaps, feeling a bit more relaxed now.

Took me a good few minutes to even work out where it was from when I opened it, I’m ususally pretty careful with this sort of stuff even thought it may be a scam at first. Then checked the date in my calendar and eventually the penny dropped.

Well that was worth the phonecall to the pub, they asked me to email the details in and they’ll get it cancelled…fingers crossed!

I was going to suggest speakng to the pub manager/landlord directly but you beat me to it!

These kinds of situations are basically designed to prevent random people using the pub carpark whilst not having any intention of giving the pub any business and blocking up thier limited parking spaces for paying customers…

Seems like you got a good outcome as you did indeed give the pub some custom, so that’s as it should be IMO.

If the pub doesn’t get it cancelled, head over to https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/  with all your details.

I’d usually say Pepipoo.co.uk, but it looks like that is finished for good

I was going to suggest speakng to the pub manager/landlord directly but you beat me to it!

Same! Have had a similar result in the past – I like a story with a happy ending. :)

Same thing happened to Son2 at a local gym. He still had a transaction record (pay per visit), but their system had failed to log his registration despite him entering it on their iPad. Not the first time either. Always follow up if it feels spurious because this is a common occurrence for legitimate use.

I read of a case where ANPR was requested for a station car park, but three houses have a legitimate right of way across to their houses. Fine for the occupants, But can you imagine the hassle for their visitors?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6355977/private-driveway

It sounds like you’re sorted now, which is good.  But, this…

They can oly charge you the ticket price plus their costs

… isn’t quite right.  It used to be the case, or at least was wildly believed to be so, but was tested in court (the infamous Parking Eye vs Bevis) and it was ruled that parking companies could legitimately charge – within reason – a figure intended to act as a deterrent against infringement.

Pub emailed me back this morning to confirm it’s cancelled, just waiting for my mate to get back off his hols and find a similar PCN on his doormat. I’ll messsage him as soon as I know he’s back as I didn’t want to spoil his holiday.

Interesting how many people I’ve spoken to today have had the same/similar, will be more careful in future!

Nice.

At the end of the day, landowners commission parking companies to police their parking spaces.  They want to dissuade people from using their car park as free parking to go and do their monthly shop, what they don’t want to do is penalise legitimate paying customers.

I have just received this text a few minutes ago :

Dvsa notice for you:

You have an overdue parking penalty charge to deal with, please enter your license plate lookup in the link once you receive the information.

If you do not pay your fine on time,Your car may be banned from driving, you might have to pay more, or you could be taken to court.

https://qrco.de/bfPb2b?aLIgz=UaEmVlO

Thank you again for your cooperation. Dvsa.

The sender’s name is Bharati Naik and the phone number is from India. I am worried that I might have to go to India for the court hearing, anyone know?

Dvsa sounds serious although I can’t work out what it stands for.

The DVSA is a real thing: Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency.  Not sure their jurisdiction includes India though.

Is there any rule to say that you have to display your number plate when on private land? Would it be illegal in any way to cover your plates when using car parks with ANPR?

Would it be illegal in any way to cover your plates when using car parks with ANPR?

I am fairly sure that it would be. It might be private land but it is used by the public so t don’t think there is any sort of exemption. The same goes if your journey includes an unadopted road.

Thegreatape formerly of stw was a copper and I remember him saying that he had issued someone with a fixed penalty notice for not wearing a seatbelt in a supermarket carpark.

Having said that I did once do precisely that and covered my numberplate when I inadvertently overstayed in a car park, it worked a treat.

That’s a really good question.

Practicalities aside – you’d have to cover up the plates in a dead space between public roads and the area of private land covered by ANPR which may not actually exist – I would have thought that once on private land you would be obliged to obey whatever rules the landowner laid down.  It would be a free-for-all otherwise, I could renovate my house and fill the local Tesco carpark with builders’ skips, or pitch a campsite at the back of Lidl.

Would it be illegal in any way to cover your plates when using car parks with ANPR?

Once did this leaving a Tesco car park local to us

https://thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk/2019/03/11/road-or-other-public-place-where-do-driving-laws-apply/

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1982985#:~:text=Their%20logic%3A%20it’s%20private%20land,reverse%20on%20the%20way%20out.

Also iirc this was the same site where they noted the government capped the pcn charges to 120 and reasonable cost  so the statement I made was quite true

ernielynchFull Member
I have just received this text a few minutes ago

I had the same one yesterday, @ernielynch

we must be on the same spamming list :o)

The pub in our village has a car park that’s used by people when they go to the shops.

They recently added a camera and payment system but put the signage quite high on a wall that you could only see when approaching the entrance from one direction.

I fell foul of this soon after it was put up and got a parking notice.

I sent pictures of the car park entrance from the direction I approach showing the signage was not easily visible and the cancelled the parking notice.

They’ve still not changed the signage.

That’s a really good question.

with a simple answer! “Private land” is only exempt from the Highway Code, traffic laws etc, if it’s genuinely inaccessible to the general public i.e. gated/locked etc.

Glad you had it cancelled.

Up here in scotland they occasionally send me threatening letters for a violation I apparently committed a few months ago. But the fine is only applicable to the driver, not the registered keeper. And I was at work at the time and can prove it. Luckily up here I have zero legal obligation to disclose who was driving at the time, and won’t be volunteering the info to a parking company

Their latest letter states it would be up to a sheriff to decide if I have to disclose the drivers details…umm…no it wouldn’t be, they can’t just make up laws on a whim

Clowns..

Clowns..

Maybe in your case but in the case of the OP the parking charge notice appears to have been perfectly reasonable

Best to speak to the pub if you have proof you made a purchase. From my experience they have the ability to call off the attack dogs.

Best to speak to the pub if you have proof you made a purchase. From my experience they have the ability to call off the attack dogs.

a) the OP already has and they’ve agreed to cancel it,

b) you’re absolutely right, because the ‘dogs’ are acting on the instruction of the landowner.

I’ve got quite used to challenging PCNs – two from different pubs that we’ve gone to. We tend not to attract parking fines or other stuff generally.

In both cases a call to the pub with the date and amount spent has been enough for them to cancel the PCN with the provider – as said above, they don’t want to put customers off, and are very helpful. Our local Lidl had a super keen PCN co that sent us a bill – again, going in with the receipt and talking to the staff got it cancelled immediately.

The other one is a local hotel to us that has a lido; locals can buy season tickets. We used it for three years, I think, and got PCNs every year, despite registering our cars with the hotel when we bought the season ticket. It actually got a bit awkward for the FoH staff, as we’d have to go in and explain to them that we’d received another PCN from their parking enforcement goons in front of other customers.

I get the impression, certainly from the people I’ve dealt with, that the PCN companies are an absolute blight and cause them a lot of headaches.

I have just received this text a few minutes ago :

Dvsa notice for you:

You have an overdue parking penalty charge to deal with, please enter your license plate lookup in the link once you receive the information.

If you do not pay your fine on time,Your car may be banned from driving, you might have to pay more, or you could be taken to court.

https://qrco.de/bfPb2b?aLIgz=UaEmVlO

Thank you again for your cooperation. Dvsa.

The sender’s name is Bharati Naik and the phone number is from India. I am worried that I might have to go to India for the court hearing, anyone know?

Dvsa sounds serious although I can’t work out what it stands for.

Posted 1 day ago

I got one of these yesterday.

Looked legit (but I was suspicious) I’ve never had a pcn notice before I filled my details in thinking I’d pay the £20 and get it over with as I had visited briefly a carpark which I couldn’t pay due to a broken machine.

Checking my banking app there were 2 attempts to authorise adding another apple pay device and Google pay device to my account.

I rung the back and they were helpful. I changed the virtual online card details and I have blocked the card for online purchases.

I will have to pick through any online accounts that the card is linked too and change the details.

It’s situations like this where a Revolut disposable virtual card is very handy.

I get the impression, certainly from the people I’ve dealt with, that the PCN companies are an absolute blight and cause them a lot of headaches

The government tried to bring in legislation to stop this crap in2022 and the Car parking Co’s lobbied against it , literally 3 months after ,my memory is hazy the government then halted plans to introduce it citing further impact analysis to be carried out , many read this as someone with money got in there to stop their wings being clipped in what they could charge. Cynical at best I know but , maybe it’s time to invent some kind of roller blind or flap that looks like a bin liner that covers your number plate upon entry , the law says nothing about appendages that may deploy at inconvenient times , the court I went to which I was sadly disappointed did not in anyway appear as grand as those artist impressions you see on the news , was basically a bloke in a room who I got the impression should be dealing with more urgent matters than a car parking dispute

I’m sure some industrious scally could organise a group of his mates who could use their time more usefully cutting down anpr cameras.

Jd, the anpr owned by tfl all around London to enforce ulez get regularly chopped down (I do not support this btw).  Most are on the edge of the zone but one near my kids school well inside got felled with a saw within weeks of popping up.   It’s been reinstalled recently after 6 months absence…. I’m waiting for a repeat felling.

@john dough the government legislation was pulled because they completely failed to follow their own rules for consultation. They were threatened with a judicial review they knew they’d lose an blamed the parking companies.

I’d also be careful what you wish for, the new legislation stipulates grounds for appeal and they are lit tighter than the better companies currently operate. For example being a genuine customer but not registering in future won’t grounds for appeal.

The industry needs a proper regulator to remove the worst practices and companies, unfortunately the Tory proposals will make a bad situation worse.

One unexpected spin off of a PCN I fell victim to a few years ago was incurring a fee from a car lease company. I got issued a PCN after a hotel stay ( where I had registered my plate to park). As my car at the time was leased (PCH) the fine got sent to the lease company first, who then forwarded it to me.

I rang the hotel and they apologised and cancelled the charge. I also contacted the lease company telling them the PCN had been cancelled, they thanked me but said I would incur a £25 fee from them at the end of the contract to cover their costs of sending the PCN to me.

I took the view at the time that I could understand it from their perspective as it’s irrelevant to them whether the PCN was justified or not they still had the admin, so I stumped up the £25 at the end of the contract. Do you think I should have challenged the fee?

I think in that case I’d be seeking reimbursement from the hotel.  I would agree with you that the lease company still had the admin, it’s not their fault (though whether it really cost them £25 is another matter).

I think I would have advised them to bill the hotel as it was their error – you’d done nothing wrong.