Last night i watched a documentary on Five called The Man Who Shared His Liver. The main thrust of the prog was that surgeons have had to pioneer 10+ hours surgeries to split and share a liver due to organ donation being at an all time low.

This got me thinking who here is a registered donor and if not why not? As apart from, in my opinion, specious religious arguments that cannot really be a case for not being one.

organdonation.nhs.uk

I’ve always thought it should be an opt out thing not an opt in thing.

Any way, on the list 🙂

I’m a registered organ donor – I figure if I no longer need my organs there are 3 ways to go:

worm food
BBQ
Help someone else

Only one of those makes sense to me.

Incidentally, I used to give blood as well when I was in the UK, and tried to register as a donor when I moved to Holland – I was refused on the grounds of being British and therefore possibly having BSE.

Moooooooo.

The reason why liver donation is low is due to alcoholics etc receiving them. Human compassion is one thing but there is also such thing as ‘deserving causes’. I wonder what the percentage of self-abuse recipients to total recipients is for livers?

The issue of alcohol abusers was brought up in the programme, it is a hard thing to do but i think i agree with one of the surgeons who said that everyone deserves one chance.

Ethics, comes down to a priority system then. Non-abusers ALWAYS should always jump the queue?!

There is something vaguely creepy about the medical profession’s insistence that they need you organs and you are morally obliged to part with them if a doctor somewhere has found a use for them. Overall, of course it is all very clever and the effects of improving medical knowledge and capability are very positive. But the ideological underpinning of it, that all human tissue is part of some grandiose project of eternal life and it is ludicrous to regard the liver that you are using at the moment as your own single-use disposable liver when so many other people want it off you the moment you’re finished with it is totalitarian. NB. Not evil, but clearly totalitarian. 🙂

Everyones entitled to free choice. Then again if you say on here that you dont want to donate you’ll receive a few nazi-style replies back saying ‘why? Thats out of order/wrong/selfish’,

registered organ donor,giving blood this afternoon,good excuse for tea and cakes afterwards 😀

seems daft not to really. Once you’ve stiffed it, it’s just a bag of meat, why would you care what happens to it? Rip the useful bits out of me and chuck the rest in a cat food factory, I couldn’t care less.

seems daft not to really. Once you’ve stiffed it, it’s just a bag of meat, why would you care what happens to it? Rip the useful bits out of me and chuck the rest in a cat food factory, I couldn’t care less.

Couldn’t agree more! I’ll have no further use for my organs

BigDummy has clearly never watched anyone die (needlessly) while waiting for an organ transplant – try it mate, I am sure you’ll change your mind pretty rapidly.

The problem is not whether anyone of us choose to donate or not – frankly you’re dead in that situation so it’s kind of out of your control. No, the problem lies with the relatives, who in the moment of great emotional distress, have to make a cold, rational decision to allow their loved ones organs to be removed.

It doesn’t matter diddly squat whether you’re a registered organ donor or not, the final decision comes down to the relatives. If they do not want to release the organs then they won’t get released, although registering helps because it does alert the family as to your wishes.

on a similar note, who here’s signed up for bone marrow donation?

I agree with BigDummy there on the issue that is euphemistically referred to “presumed consent”, but might otherwise be considered the nationalisation of people’s internal organs – I consider my body to belong to me, and me alone and think that organ donation is a gift.

Mrs F:
I’ve always thought it should be an opt out thing not an opt in thing.

Any way, on the list

Yep, agreed. And me too.

I’m also a blood donor. You should see the reactions you get when you turn up on a motorbike, then tell them “Keep that one warm! I want it back if I have an accident on the way home!”
😀

If you want to be biologically brutalist about it, “needless” is a strange word to use to describe the death of an organism which is no longer capable of sustaining independent life without borrowing body parts from other dead organisms.

I’m not hostile to organ donation particularly, but the choice of words is illustrative of the point I originally made.

Anyway, I shall leave it at that. I don’t want to pick scabs.

On the list, should be an opt-out thing anyway. If you refuse to donate your organs, you should not be in a position to receive one if you need it.

When I was at uni I used to give blood simply to get a free lunch from the selection of snacks they offered afterward. 🙂

I’ve spent chuffing hours slogging my guts out (pun intended) over hill and dale to get fit enough to race my bike.

If i were to kark it I’d actually be a little annoyed if all that work went to waste and just sat rotting in the ground/got barbequed!

Saying that, I’d also be a bit annoyed if my uber-awesome heart went into some fat, lazy couch potato that didn’t appreciate it…is haunting people an option in this instance?!

Yes, i am and on the stem cell donor register..

samuri – Member

seems daft not to really. Once you’ve stiffed it, it’s just a bag of meat, why would you care what happens to it? Rip the useful bits out of me and chuck the rest in a cat food factory, I couldn’t care less.

Samuri makes it seem like an easy choice, but he is not considering the feelings of the people he leaves behind who love him! I think the subject needs a family discussion so all are prepared if this most vile day ever comes!

I have witnesses the body of a dear loved one lying on a mortuary trolley after a nasty accident. For a moment, whilst staring in shock, I considered whether or not she had donated any of her organs (I had no idea whether she carried a donor card, we never discussed it, but she was in the medical profession).

The nature of the accident meant that she was due an autopsy soon after we saw her for the last time. The thought of anyone chopping her about or using saws and stuff on her was a deeply sickening prospect. I didn’t want anyone to even touch her! Any chance of rational thought was out the window at the time.

I understand there are desperate people who need all sorts of organs, and fortunately, not being next of kin, it was not me who had to make any decisions with regard to this matter.

If you are dead, I think it is the right thing to donate your organs.

What really bothers me is if you are on life support and the doctors are keen to switch you off off and harvest your organs because they think the odds of you surviving are very very slim, or worse. You hear of cases where people wake up after very long periods of being in a coma or in a CVS etc. I think in this situation, it’s a really tough one to call. I would want to be given my best chance if a reasonable recovery was remotely possible. The question is; How do you know what the outcome will be if you terminate someone’s life?

There is a great deal of pressure on hospitals to keep beds clear and save money. If you have an organ donor card, in this worst case scenario, the pressure to switch off is increased.

In regard of this, I certainly do not agree with opt out organ donation!

on a similar note, who here’s signed up for bone marrow donation?

Me too…. giver of blood and listed as a (future!!) organ donor…..

I thought there was a VERY rigorous process for declaring some body as dead i.e. not ever going to come back to life rather than having a very slim chance of coming back to life; I think the term is ‘brain stem death’. I’m sure you have to get a couple of doctors to agree (is it at least three so there is less chance of collusion?) on the results of all the tests they do.

Spongebob, I understand your concerns, but they are not founded in reality.
There are two situations where organ donation of the kind you are thinking of occur;
1. following brain stem death; a series of tests are done where every attempt is made to detect some sign of reflex brain function, involving testing the diect nerve connections to your brain via the ears, eyes, and the functioning of the brain stem. Before those tests are done, every attempt is made to ensure that you are not artificially unable to produce a response, ie no drugs are in your system, you are warm, all your electrolyte levels are normal.
If no response is detected, then you are considered ‘brain stem dead’, but just to make sure, the tests are repeated again a while later.

There is no attempt to fudge or ignore any response in these tests, and they are attended by two doctors and any number of nurses,and, increasingly, relatives.

Then and only then would organ donation be an option, and if the patients next-of-kin decides against it, it will not go ahead, even if you are on the organ donor register.

The second and less common thing is called non-heart-beating donation, where you are actually allowed to die as naturally as possible, then taken off for the donation procedure, but again only with the express consent of your next-of-kin.

There is no pressure on anyone, least of all the medical staff and no ‘hurrying up’ to remove support from anyone.

Crikey, you read my mind crikey.

I like to think of organ donation as re-incarnation on the instalment plan.

geetee1972 – Member

I thought there was a VERY rigorous process for declaring some body as dead i.e. not ever going to come back to life rather than having a very slim chance of coming back to life; I think the term is ‘brain stem death’. I’m sure you have to get a couple of doctors to agree (is it at least three so there is less chance of collusion?) on the results of all the tests they do.

In a busy hospital and with doctors who are exhausted, can you always be sure they will make the right decision?(even if there are three doctors on the case). Have you ever had to work for more than 24 hours and still make important decisions? I have and I can tell you it is very difficult. Several days of this in a row leads to misjudgemnt and mistakes. In my experience, being extremely tired is far worse than being blind drunk!

I don’t trust the way hospitals are run these days – administrators do not undertsand the pressures because they have never been “at the coal face”. Staffing shortages are acute!

My father died in hospital. A doctor came up to see us after he passed away and assured us catagorically that he hadn’t suffered because he was completely out of it. Well the doctor last saw him 6 hours before he died. Being there for all this time, I can catagorically state that he did suffer and was very distressed. The quality of service was shameful for the 4 days he was in there and there were serious shortages of nurses. I witnessed patients begging for a nurse to tend them. People laying in their own mess for hours. Only two of the nurses seemed to give a damn and there were a catalogue of failings that I shan’t bore you with. It was a frightening experience. I only wish we had taken my father home to die!

There have been plenty of other cases reported in the media regarding geriatric care and I can confirm that these issues are very real!

In my own experience and listening to the opinions of a number of people in the medical profession including my father and sister, I would be pretty doubtful that doctors would always make the right decisions.

Your own experiences notwithstanding, no doctor, certainly in my hospital, works more than 24 hours. They are all on a shift system to prevent exactly this situation.

In addition, this is not a process that is rushed into, or one that happens over an hour or so; it’s a controlled, very closely regulated and observed business, and, as I said, can be stopped at any time by the next-of-kin.

Spongebob – I think your experiences are dreadful and if it had been me I would be screaming with anger. Our family had a similar experience within a care home, where my grandmother died of septicemia (spelling?) as a result of a bedsore that developed. Avoiding bedsores is basic nursing care!

What you’re highlighting is that people aren’t perfect; our systems aren’t perfect. They are not now and they never will be. But just because we’re fallible as humans, doesn’t mean we should limit the scope of our opportunity. It’s a little bit like electing never to go out because you might get hit by a car. You have to balance the opportunity to make good with the risk that in doing that you may inadvertantly cause harm. When you cause more harm by not acting, then I think you’ve missed the balance point and IMO, organ donation, with all the checks that Crikey highlights, is currently close to (but not at) that balance point.

Have been since I was about 13, and my family know my wishes.

Reminds me, I’ve not given blood for a while…

went to the funeral of a work colleuge who was on the donor register.

A family member read out the names of the 7 or 8 people who, through his organs being transplanted, were either saved or lives made massively better including one who had been hospitalised for the best part of 3 years and who went home a week afterwards.

The impact was huge and I signed up immediately afterwards.

I encourage others to do the same. At the end of the day we wont need them when we go to the endless Alpine-esque singletrack heaven in the sky (or the endless flat muddy field down below if you have been bad).

“Not evil, but clearly totalitarian. [:-)] “

Utilitarian rather than totalitarian, surely?

Spongebob – I see where you are coming from, and am sorry for your horrible experiences/loss, but I genuinely don’t believe that the chances of having organs wrongly harvested are significant.

Tangentially, there has been a bump (don’t know how big) in organ donations in Greece (where donation rates were very low) after Doujon Zammit’s parents publicized organ donation. (Zammit was iirc an Australian-Greek who was murdered outside a nightclub on Mykonos). http://www.smh.com.au/national/doujons-tragedy-brings-an-amazing-outcome-20090224-8gul.html?page=-1

On the list and all close relations informed. When I kark it, they can have whatever bits of me they can find a use for.

I REALLY don’t get these clowns who say that their organs can be used, but not take their eyes because they ‘need them in the afterlife’. So – you will be able to get on without a heart, lungs, liver and brain but you need your eyes.

Get a life!

fair point spongebob but yes, I’ve already had the discussion with my wife and she knows it’s what I want. Conversely she is dead set against the idea and wants to go into the ground whole. I’ll fight anyone who tries to stop that happening because that’s what she’s asked me to do, I’m hoping she’ll do the same.

I must admit this subject gets me miffed.

I can’t donate because obviously being gay means I’m going to be full of HIV.

But I apparently can donate my organs.

I don’t understand – HIV testing takes quite some time and organs would be full of the virus if you were to have it. Which means that the organs should not be used, but are requested anyway.

Therefore, based upon this sort of dichotomy I have decided that if they want bits of me they either take the lot or nowt. My name is not on the list, neither will it be, until someone can justify this contradiction.

I can’t donate because

I assume you mean you can’t give blood?

Oops, sorry. Yes, that’s the one.

I won’t donate my grammar either 🙂

I have had an organ transplant and I will grow old and see my children grow up because of the sacrifice of some other person it humbles me and there is not a day when I am not greatful for the gift given to me by this unknown person and their family.
Oddly enough I cannot donate because I was the recepient of a donated organ (the irony there eh). It also stopped me giving blood as well in case I have been infected with some as yet unidentified disease as a result of the transplant.
I dont understand why someone would not be on the list and AdamW (whilst you have every right to be miffed with the hypocrisy of the situation) what exactly are you hoping to achieve by not being on the list? Not likely to alter policy decisions and may result in someone elses death.
If you start a petition to change the law on blood donations though I will sign it.
Adam are you allowed to give bone marrow? I cant do that either.

Spongebob – Member

geetee1972 – Member

I thought there was a VERY rigorous process for declaring some body as dead i.e. not ever going to come back to life rather than having a very slim chance of coming back to life; I think the term is ‘brain stem death’. I’m sure you have to get a couple of doctors to agree (is it at least three so there is less chance of collusion?) on the results of all the tests they do.

In a busy hospital and with doctors who are exhausted, can you always be sure they will make the right decision?(even if there are three doctors on the case). Have you ever had to work for more than 24 hours and still make important decisions? I have and I can tell you it is very difficult. Several days of this in a row leads to misjudgemnt and mistakes. In my experience, being extremely tired is far worse than being blind drunk!

I don’t trust the way hospitals are run these days – administrators do not undertsand the pressures because they have never been “at the coal face”. Staffing shortages are acute!

My father died in hospital. A doctor came up to see us after he passed away and assured us catagorically that he hadn’t suffered because he was completely out of it. Well the doctor last saw him 6 hours before he died. Being there for all this time, I can catagorically state that he did suffer and was very distressed. The quality of service was shameful for the 4 days he was in there and there were serious shortages of nurses. I witnessed patients begging for a nurse to tend them. People laying in their own mess for hours. Only two of the nurses seemed to give a damn and there were a catalogue of failings that I shan’t bore you with. It was a frightening experience. I only wish we had taken my father home to die!

There have been plenty of other cases reported in the media regarding geriatric care and I can confirm that these issues are very real!

In my own experience and listening to the opinions of a number of people in the medical profession including my father and sister, I would be pretty doubtful that doctors would always make the right decisions.

At our local hospital practitioners simply swing a spade decapitating the body then spring garlic cloves around just in case

i think i agree with one of the surgeons who said that everyone deserves one chance.

You could argue that chance was already thrown away (we all know drinking damages your liver) and donation is a second chance. I think I’d still give people a second chance, especially as it only occurs if one is going spare from a dead person, but I’d expect that non-alcohol abusers would get “first dibs” – not sure if it happens that way.

I have told my wife she can liquidise me if she wants (after I’m dead!) or cut me up and give away the bits.