I waved goodbye to my Enduro 29 yesterday and will be picking up an Alpine 160 later. I don’t think there is anything wrong with hard hitting, aggressive 29ers – I rode the Alpine Five and it was a monster truck. Very impressive. But I can see the appeal isn’t there for everyone.

That said, I’m sure many an opinion was changed about 29ers by anyone who rode an Alpine Five (or the Enduro 29 for that matter).

As good as they are though, I am looking forward to tapping into the potential of the A160. Its a whole new level of fast downhill, even compared to my Enduro, which was >F<ast!

Wheel size can matter to taller or shorter riders.

I’m glad I got my wife one of the last 26er Alpine 160s earlier this year. She’s not vertically challenged but compared to the average man she’s a lot shorter. The smaller wheels pair better with the smaller frame aesthetically and I reckon make it easier to get the frame angle compromises right.

She likes it.

Personally I’ve never riden 650b – 29, 26, and Fat yes, but not 650b. I like the fact that each of those wheel sizes rides slightly differently and I don’t think I want something that’s a bit like all of them. Even if it’s all the best bits.

I mourn the passing of 26, but trust that rims and tyres will be available for a bit yet.

This has little to do with how good the bikes may or may not be, but it does seem that the market isn’t that interested in Orange 29ers

I think the ‘problem’ is possibly three fold.

1) Orange never had short chainstays, they couldn’t as there was no way of getting clearance between seatube and rear wheel with a single pivot.
2) ‘Enduro’ has sold people bikes that are too capable.
3) 29ers are too capable.

1 is specific to Orange, 2&3 explain why people have tried the Spesh enduro 29er and decided it’s too much bike (including journo’s), orange 5-29er was just a perfect storm.

‘Enduro’ has sold people bikes that are too capable.

Depends what they’re being used for doesn’t it?
I’ll be getting an ENDURO! bike, mainly for the brilliant new bike parks which are within reasonable distance. They can also go uphill if needed (trail riding will mainly be on the HT though).

Saying that somebody shouldn’t make up their mind about 29ers unless they’ve ridden them all is childish and unrealistic, very few of us here have the time or money to go buying or demo-ing every 29er out there to make the kind of informed decision the 29er fans seem to demand.

I might just be falling for the bait, but one might argue that you are being childish and unrealistic!

You are massively over egging how 29 wheels ‘smooth out’ the trail. They do eg roll nicely over holes that would grab a smaller wheel a bit more, but there isn’t any magical suspension action going on, just basic physics of the larger diameter wheel rolling over peaks and gaps a bit better than smaller wheels would. A rigid or hardtail 29er still knocks your fillings out in the rough, there is no magic taking place.

I’ve never had my wheels rub my frame either, and I’m fairly heavy.

I’ve got a Smuggler and it is great fun to ride, coming from a 26er, in fact I think the chainstays are shorter than my 26er was. I didn’t demo it or any other full sus 29er before buying it either, just clearly looked like it was going to be a whole puddle of trouble from the geometry – long, low, slack, short rear end. Maybe that’s why the Orange isn’t as popular, it is quite high and long in the rear compared to more recent short travel 29ers.

This is one thing that I don’t get with the whole wheelsize debate; larger wheels do behave differently, but the differences we are talking about are pretty small and complicated by all the other differences. So, yes, all things being equal a 29er smooths out the trail more and has a higher front end. But all things aren’t equal. Take two bikes designed to do the same job and the 29er will probably have shorter travel, so won’t actually smooth things out any more in practice than the smaller wheeled bike, or have a higher front end. It will probably have a steeper head angle too, so won’t be any harder to turn either.

Depends what they’re being used for doesn’t it?
I’ll be getting an ENDURO! bike, mainly for the brilliant new bike parks which are within reasonable distance. They can also go uphill if needed (trail riding will mainly be on the HT though).

I agree, but I think a lot of people (me included) bought into the “it’s just the riding you always did with your mates, but with a race thrown in”. When the reality was, 99.9% of people do something between XC and pony trekking. Even Much – Better with Raisers took a step back from the seemingly annual 5-10mm travel increment on their long term trail bikes and went back to 5″ travel bikes.

I sold mine, as although it was brilliant it only ever got used on trips to trail centres/bike parks, which wasn’t enough to justify it.

“it’s just the riding you always did with your mates, but with a race thrown in”

Ha! Until the ex-DH world cup riders turned up!!!! What a joke that was….

Better with Raisers

You’re going to have to expand on that a bit buddy…..

I can’t disagree with you, but I’m in the fortunate position to have Cwmcarn, BPW, FOD flyup 417 (soon) and even Gawton (plus the SW TCs but I’ll be on the HT mostly for those) all within reasonable distance. I’ll get decent milage out of an ENDURO! bike (hopefully)

I agree, but I think a lot of people (me included) bought into the “it’s just the riding you always did with your mates, but with a race thrown in”. When the reality was, 99.9% of people do something between XC and pony trekking.

Can someone explain what any of that means, please?

Thnx

Oh… hang on, none of this make any sense either:

Even Much – Better with Raisers took a step back from the seemingly annual 5-10mm travel increment on their long term trail bikes and went back to 5″ travel bikes.

Did you proof any of that before hitting the ‘send’ button?

😉

The Gyro was too XC, the alpine too far a jump for many, and then the segment too late.

I’d like to see a longer travel Segment/ shorter travel A5. 130 rear, 140 front. Shorter stays, and carbon.

That would be ideal for me. Sort of a Evil Following, but with mud clearance and a almost spotless track record in the past couple of years.

1) Orange never had short chainstays, they couldn’t as there was no way of getting clearance between seatube and rear wheel with a single pivot.

I can’t help this argument is used by people who have not tried too many and believe what others say then repeat as gospel as the vast majority of people who have actually ridden the 5 29 (Alpine 5) rave about it.

Saying that, if the world is full of people that buy bikes based on figures rather then riding them then that would make a case for why the Alpine 5 has been dropped.

That would be ideal for me. Sort of a Evil Following, but with mud clearance and a almost spotless track record in the past couple of years.

Flip me, the shorter travel RS was 32.5lbs!!!! you’re in 35lbs territory there!
The following would rip its arse out!!!!

if the world is full of people that buy bikes based on figures rather then riding them then that would make a case for why the Alpine 5 has been dropped.

That’s a weird view! A good bike sells itself.

Don’t get me wrong I love the concept and if I raced Enduro on a regular basis I’d get a Spesh Enduro-29, an Intense Carbine-29 or one of the outgoing Orange-5 29ers….maybe a Codeine as a left field choice….but I haven’t entered an Enduro for a few years now and tend to favour uplift days and running my 26 HT on inappropriate trails, my next bike will likely be a full on DH rig, I have a 650b full susser for easy trail riding….29ers just seem to have passed me by, doesn’t mean they’re bad bikes they’re just not on my radar.

Did you proof any of that before hitting the ‘send’ button?

Each to their own, but I quite liked the “something between XC and pony trekking”. Sums up my riding pretty well I’d say. The little dig at MBR took a while, but I got there in the end 🙂

Each to their own, but I quite liked the “something between XC and pony trekking”

I liked that too!

Swinley is a classic example, car loads of 160mm travel bikes being unloaded and then ridden (sat down naturally) round a fairly flat XC type route….you couldn’t make it up….and then the owners spout about what a great ‘all rounder’ their Alpine-160 is….and how ‘it climbs just like a hardtail’….hmm, really?…if my HT climbed as badly as a long travel single pivot I’d take it back.

That’s a weird view! A good bike sells itself.

This may be true but are you saying hype and the ‘experts’ idea of what’s right plays no part in why people buy what they do?

I’m convinced plenty of people write off bikes that would suit them purely because ‘the numbers are wrong’.

I will happily write off swathes of bikes that might suit me, just because they look minging.

I also choose to buy my bikes almost entirely on the basis that they look nice*

Crazy, I know..! 😉
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*well…. ‘right’ is probably a better term.

Perhaps chest, but if a bike’s good (particularly one from Orange; they don’t suffer lack of hype/exposure), it’ll get screen time, good reviews etc and people will try/buy them.

Saying they are more suitable that what current people are riding is a bit squiffy. People buy what they like. Then they justify it until they buy another bike when they begin justifying that one! Only then can they say how unsuitable the previous one was.
There is so much choice, it’s probable that we’ve all missed out on bikes which were more suitable for whatever reason (didn’t demo/didn’t like the look of/colour/brand etc etc).

I think we are over thinking this…

People who buy oranges like to buy stuff that looks the same as it did 20yrs ago.

This is much more compatible with 650b than 29″ 😉

I might be in a minority here ,but in the last 18 months ive gone from 26″ to 29er (100mm travel) and now running a 150mm 650b ,I decided to change from 29er as my worries were about wheel strength and I found 100mm travel was not enough for what I was doing ,so changed to the 650b,i must admit I dived in a little here ,what I should have done was looked for a Five 29er, Ive ridden a 26″ Five and loved it,and being 6`3 im sure that 29ers suit my height better and the confidence that the 29er offered me,and the reason why ive been looking for a Five 29er for the last 6 weeks.
Im waiting for Renton to get bored of his so I can take it from him and send It back to Stainland for a re-spray

Number one thing that should be done when obtaining a 29er is to get some carbon wheels onto it. Comments of sluggish acceleration and slow/vague handling soon vanish.

I will happily write off swathes of bikes that might suit me, just because they look minging.

That’s a very valid reason when dropping thousands of pounds on a bike. Writing off a bike without trying it because this weeks fashion says x part has to be this long or y part has to be this wide is different though.

Perhaps chest, but if a bike’s good (particularly one from Orange; they don’t suffer lack of hype/exposure), it’ll get screen time, good reviews etc and people will try/buy them.

Saying they are more suitable that what current people are riding is a bit squiffy. People buy what they like. Then they justify it until they buy another bike when they begin justifying that one! Only then can they say how unsuitable the previous one was.
There is so much choice, it’s probable that we’ve all missed out on bikes which were more suitable for whatever reason (didn’t demo/didn’t like the look of/colour/brand etc etc).

I’m not saying anything is more suitable then anything else but people will write stuff off for the strangest reasons. I’m not specifically talking about Orange although as many people will slag them off because they’re Orange as will buy for the same reason. We’re going off at a tangent here.

Stevedoc. You will be waiting a long time mate. I’m keeping it for most of your own reasons. Here is another picture just to rub it in……….

We probably are chest!
Interesting topic though.

Still very expensive I see.

Flip me, the shorter travel RS was 32.5lbs!!!! you’re in 35lbs territory there!
The following would rip its arse out!!!!

Probably why I mentioned it needs to also be carbon then.

The Following would be my go to bike, if it had more travel and had mud clearance with proper tyres, and a well known good service backup.

My Alpine 5 is down at 31lbs, so a slimmed down version, in carbon should easily tip under 29lb.

That’s a big step for Orange, as they bash the ALU in house.

We probably are chest!
Interesting topic though.

Defo is. I’m sure some sort of therapist could have a field day analysing what we buy, what we dismiss and for what reason!

My last bike was a 2011 26″ Five and I loved it, but it was time for a change.
I had only a short ride on a 29er in the past and didn’t see the point of them, then on a whim i bought one of the small framed refurbished Alpine Fives from Orange.
I am now a total convert and I don’t see myself going back to small wheels again. In the last eight months I’ve had mine I haven’t touched my 26″ wheeled Orange ST4 and I sold my 26″ Five.
My A5 is just so capable and suits my riding style perfectly.

I think the next generation of the Five will have a triangulated swing arm similar to the Alpine and the 324 as they said it was lighter and stiffer compared to the one piece of the 322.
I expect they’ll release another Five 29er if the market goes back that way again. They were so fast downhill.
I think it’s good that being small Orange can adapt so quickly to market trends compared to the big companies that have probably already planned out their product lines for next few years.

suits my riding style perfectly.

Somebody just nailed it.

this is my new Orange alpine 5 29er with upgraded Fox shocks 150 of travel on front and 140 on the rear and i came from a camber fsr 29er and this thing is just mega in more ways than one

I ride a 29’er race XC hardtail and its perfect for my riding in the flat S-East of England

I probably wouldn’t buy a full suspension 29’er, the 650 / 27.5 wheel makes more sense for me if I wanted a full suspension bike for more rowdy riding?

just my tuppence…