yunki, I’m not having a go .I’m just stating a few facts, I’m sure all your mates do “survive” on that kind of money, but it’s still crap isn’t it.

{quote]…they should make…{/quote]

That’s a bit vague. That might put some off.

What’s crap about getting close to local overall median wage for a starting wage in unskilled work?

Staring wage – unless you move position within the company, TBF the starting wage for a van driver is the wage they are likely to always be on (excepting [ahem] cost of living rises).

I’m not knocking it just stating a realistic point.

Is 19.5K really crap? Admittedly if you want to buy a house it is. Maybe “one” should forego £40/month mobile phone/Sky TV etc etcetera and concentrate on your real needs before your wants.

I’ve done courier work self employed. It was rubbish. Spoken to lot’s of people who’ve done similar work, taxi driver, ice cream van etc.
Always a good wage quoted. The reality however…
So are you actually employing someone? Should you knock 10% off for time on holiday, a few days genuine illness a year, snowed off? What happens when they break their arm falling off their mountain bike?
Yes we’re all a bunch of lazy workshy white trash!

we pay casual labour 50 quid a day they might do sod all and drink tea 9 -3 and get off home if we have an easy day or slog it out grafting till 8 and i thought that was tight so i was for upping it to 65 -70 until i asked around and others are only paying 40 for all day graft..

Toys talking out of his arse again. No change there then. FWIW, if I lived down there, and I do love the area, I’d be round your place like a shot. I’d love to be getting that money for driving.

I’d love to be getting that money for driving

You could get close to double that for driving, if you drove a train.

we pay casual labour 50 quid a day they might do sod all and drink tea 9 -3 and get off home if we have an easy day or slog it out grafting till 8 and i thought that was tight so i was for upping it to 65 -70 until i asked around and others are only paying 40 for all day graft..

So you make enough profits to pay more, and think it would be fair to do so, but you won’t because you can get away with it?
IMO this is one of the big problems with current working conditions, employees are last in line when it comes to share in the successes they help create. Lots has been said about work ethic over the past few days, but it seems to be only a one way expectancy in most organisations.

You could get close to double that for driving, if you drove a train.

And you wouldn’t even have to steer!

MSP, think about it the other way round, tendering for jobs based on the costs you think you need to pay.

TM with the way my job is going I may well give you a shout

£19k before or after tax? If the former then it’s only c.£15k

I’m struggling too. It’s very frustrating. I wish some big companies employing large amounts of highly skilled people who hurry up and give them the push so I can take my pick.

£19.5k is loads of money for Devon…much more generous than my salary.

Of course it’s going to be before tax. That’s a good wage for a driving job, it’s more than we pay for the factory jobs for unskilled guys and I reckon it’ll be a better place to spend your days.
I think this points out the middle aged IT types who populate STW, not really in touch with reality at all.
Believe me, if a van driver was paid 40k, plus the assembly guy, plus the packers, plus the guys who service the van, plus the ones who make the van etc ect etc…. You couldn’t afford whatever it was that was being delivered.
To the OP, no idea, where are you advertising?

IMO this is one of the big problems with current working conditions, employees are last in line when it comes to share in the successes they help create. Lots has been said about work ethic over the past few days, but it seems to be only a one way expectancy in most organisations.

Exactly.

Count Zero Naff off you ahve proven earlier how limited your thinking is.

samsmedium and others – I don’t get it, you think 19k is good, because you are on less? And here I am campaiging that it should be more but you see fit to shoot me down? SCREWY.

You lot shoot yourselves in the foot.

toys19 demonstrates the epic level of entitlement that perhaps lies at the bottom of some of those problems we’ve been having this week. Don’t fancy £19k to drive a van? Then starve.

I’m sure all your mates a huge swathe of the population do “survive” on that kind of money, and much less, but it’s still crap isn’t it.

yes… let’s riot 8)

toys – you just aint in the real world on this one. that far more than acare worker for example – its about what my missus gets for giving professional advice working for a charity. its a perfectly reasonable and normal wage for unskilled / semi skilled. Its a bit miserable for a professional

samsmedium and others – I don’t get it, you think 19k is good

For an unskilled job I’d say it’s good, and I’m in the business of poorly paid unskilled work.

How does £5.93 per hour for washing the produce trays that you pick your lemon grass and kumquats from at your local supermarket grab you?

I can start you at 6am Saturday morning if you like, no weekend premium.

toys19 demonstrates the epic level of entitlement that perhaps lies at the bottom of some of those problems we’ve been having this week. Don’t fancy £19k to drive a van? Then starve.

I think you will find I don’t claim any benefits and earn all my own money. What I am trying to say is that if you morons are happy to accept 19k a year then what do you expect. Don’t let the big man think that he can pay you crap money.

No wonder we have riots if peopl are prepared to work for eff all.
You slave away for 40-50 hours a week and only make 400 before tax?? What exactly can you do with 400 quid?

A 200k mortgage will cost you about 1100 a month on repayments if you can get a good deal, so thats house ownership out. So you have two kids and a wife, rent is gonna be 650 odd a month. So this 400 a week would be say 1300 a month gross so half that is gone on rent, take out food for 4 and fuel for the car and clothes and a little treat at the weekend and you have precisely eff all left.

oh sorry I forgot everyone has to be able to spend 200k on a house. whats wrong with taking a relatively low paid job? I did, worked hard, put myself through college and moved on up. It’s called having a work ethic.

toys – you just aint in the real world on this one. that far more than acare worker for example – its about what my missus gets for giving professional advice working for a charity. its a perfectly reasonable and normal wage for unskilled / semi skilled. Its a bit miserable for a professional

No teej, I know exactly what people get paid. Eff all. That is my point. Its miserable for anyone.

Why do you think we have so many on the dole and loads of “immigrants” doing all the manual work? People in the uk realise that 5.63 an hour is crap. Whereas its loads (or was) to an eastern european.

I sussed this out 20 odd years ago as a teenager and realised I neede to get my qualifications if I didn’t want to be on crap money for ever, not everyone has the luck to be able to get a good education. i had parental support, community support. I thank my lucky stars, and I feel bad for anyone on 19k a year.

mcboo – Member

oh sorry I forgot everyone has to be able to spend 200k on a house. whats wrong with taking a relatively low paid job? I did, worked hard, put myself through college and moved on up. It’s called having a work ethic.

There is nothing wrong with taking a low paid job, I’m not knocking it, I’m just saying perhaps you should push back on the employer and make them share things around a bit. Hence my pressure on trailmonkey to up his offering.

Whenever I have employed people, if I have had control of the money, I will always try and reward well for what people do and help them to develop there role to more added value so the employer has to pay them more or he loses an important asset.

wow… just wow

And welcome to the world toys. You’re in bleedin fantasy land here. If your on 19k, you ain’t getting a 200k mortgage. You’re not going to support a wife And kids easily. The way you do it us work hard, gain promotion, earn more and work harder.
Now, I’ll pat you on your head, condescend a bit more and treat myself to a wry smile at my superiority.

People in the uk realise that 5.63 an hour is crap

£5.93

Oh, just read the last post. You do get it, sort of… Only not.
I quit already, I’m off to wreck some working class people’s lives down at the mill by offering them a payrise to 19k…

you ain’t in the real world toys. Hello – reality calling. A huge amount of people in this country earn less than 20 000 pa. Thats a normal wage. Yes minimum wage is miserable and mean – but 20 000 pa is £10 an hour.

If the average is mid 20 s then many folk must be on less,. minimum wage is £12000 pa.

whats wrong with taking a relatively low paid job? I did, worked hard, put myself through college and moved on up. It’s called having a work ethic.

Yes, but you did it while young and with your eyes on bigger things, this is about a basic job and the pay is never (taking inflation into account) gonna change…

That 30 p os criticial to make it a decent wage

there are two issues here
I. Is the wage fair for an unskilled job in the current capitalist world we live in- Yes.
2. Is the wage fair in the sense that you can live well for 19 k per year then the answer is no. As toys note these days most people on that sort of income – especially in Devon, will have no hope of home ownership or be abel to easily support children.

I doubt any of us here could actually live on this in Devon. If you doubt this is the case then you need to tell us why he cannot recruit folk with such a cracking offer.

Why do you think we have so many on the dole and loads of “immigrants” doing all the manual work? People in the uk realise that 5.63 an hour is crap. Whereas its loads (or was) to an eastern european

And it’s so much better being on the dole than earning £19.5k? I could think of alternative explanations for people preferring to stay on the dole than take the jobs Eastern Europeans are happy to do, but jobs only paying £19.5k isn’t one of them.

Yes, but you did it while young and with your eyes on bigger things, this is about a basic job and the pay is never (taking inflation into account) gonna change…

I don’t really understand your point? Whats wrong with doing an honest days work for an honest days wage? Why do we have to demean getting up in the morning and doing a job? What message does that send to kids, that a job isnt worth doing unless it’s as a footballer or TV talent show winner?

This week of all weeks I am sick of listening to this crap.

I doubt any of us here could actually live on this in Devon. If you doubt this is the case then you need to tell us why he cannot recruit folk with such a cracking offer.

No one wants multi drop work, quite frankly it’s hard wok, their are easier driving jobs out there (I’m presuming we are talking 50+ drops day).

Ah the work ethic the greatest trick our masters ever gave us was to convince us it was noble to work for them and to pay your way. That way they can pay you eff all and make more themselves – lets be honest they could not make anything if we did not work so hey lets make us enjoy it…feel empowered, proud even.
Poster above pays £50 even though he thinks it is tight because some good people with a work ethic will work for it …GAWD BLESS EM.

right, let’s get a few things straight now that i’ve got time to do so.

we offer garaunteed work on a day in day out basis, five days a week. it’s multi drop work and the area will be the same every day unless for some reason i need to move the drivers around. this doesn’t really help anyone unless the driver is pretty talented and able to operate a run from blind, so it’s unlikely to happen.

drivers will be self employed. the rights and wrongs of this could be argued all day and probably will be by people who do not know or understand the game. as an experienced multi dop driver – both paye and self employed – i’d always look for self employed work as i’ve always made more money that way. as an employer, i’d always want to operate with self employed drivers as i know that their self motivation means i’ll get more out of them. i’m not the company owner so i’m not really concerned with the economics of paye v s.e, i’m just concerned with productivity, in that regard self employed drivers are better.

as for the wages, anyone who thinks that 17500 – 20000 is an average wage in devon really doesn’t know many ‘average’ workers in devon. wages here are appallingly low. i actually ended up in the position that i’m in by applying for one of the driving jobs and talking myself into a different role.

with regard to the positions being unskilled then i think that this is a grey area. officially, yes it’s unskilled. however, if i were to give an inexperienced guy a van and 40 deliveries to make, i’d be assured of total meltdown and 25 undelivered consignments come 5 o’clock. give the same job to a good multi dropper and he’d have an empty van and be having his feet up by 2 o’clock. part of the problem is that everyone who drives thinks that they can be a courier – they can’t. you can either do it or you can’t. most can’t.

i think that tj is probably offering the soundest advice on the thread. i’m working on a better version of the advert that we’ll be using in future. the old advert was written before i came on board and is rather vague and doesn’t really encourage people without their own vans to apply. we can actually source vans and insurance far cheaper than most people can so folk could be better off with our vans than their own.

But you guys are missing the point ITS A FRIGGING JOB[/u] I have been on the dole for 2 months after 30 years of working 🙁 and it was a horrable time for me

I would of skinned shite if a job was on offer I was that desperate

Just a question: what happens if the van driver is sick and cannot come in that day?

i’d sack him

Just a question: what happens if the van driver is sick and cannot come in that day?

Self employed don’t get sick or have problems getting in.