Oceangate Sub Missing

Some insight into the issues and culpability of the aforementioned pay-to-play round-the-world yacht race – https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/may/11/clipper-round-the-world-yacht-race-adventure-lifetime-tragedy-simon-speirs

This real-time monitoring system they have, it’d be reporting back to the support boat wouldn’t it?

limited. underwater acoustic comms is pretty low bandwidth. think in bits not bytes…

This real-time monitoring system they have, it’d be reporting back to the support boat wouldn’t it?

I doubt it. Through water data transmission is possible but it’s very limited in range.

gobuchul
Free Member

Some interesting stuff about the development of the hull.

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters

A lot of interesting details there, thanks.

Not read the whole thread so I probably missed a similar post already, but reading this yesterday I felt pretty uneasy about the headlines of this sitting alongside the story of the 500+ dying in the disaster involving the migrant boat in greek waters. The size and scale of the rescue mission launched to rescue these 5 does seem to dwarf the efforts for the 500….almost like money talks….

it’s very limited in range

Ah ok. I guess a data cable to a buoy isn’t practical over that depth.

Slightly OT, did anyone see that Netflix docu about the murder on a private submarine? Far more disturbing than I expected in the end but also interesting for the construction and general sub operation aspects.

I don’t get all the resentment towards rich people spending their money this way.
I don’t believe in trickle down economics, but trickle down technology seems like a real thing to me.
If people or businesses want to spend a lot of money on vanity projects like submarines, spaceships or formula one cars, and there’s a chance it will make future technology safer for less frivolous uses, then I’m all for it.
Would there be less resentment if they had spent the money on a work of art for their private collection, or a grouse moor with no public access?

If all this turns out to be some sort of scandal will it be Oceangategate?

I agree this is a pretty small sub, however when various US subs have gone missing, it has been possible to detect the sound of the implosion.

Think that Argentinian sub that went down a few years ago was “heard” (not sure by what or who)…

I don’t get all the resentment towards rich people spending their money this way.

If rich people want to kill themselves in shonky submarines then I’m all for that. 🙂

If rich people want to kill themselves in shonky submarines then I’m all for that

classy response..

I don’t get all the resentment towards rich people spending their money this way.

I don’t resent the spending in particular.

I resent their existence and their tax avoidance. They are (in general, possibly with limited exceptions) a thoroughly malign influence that undermines our society.

Would there be less resentment if they had spent the money on a work of art for their private collection, or a grouse moor with no public access?

#Perhaps if they were unable to hoard all that wealth – wealth that they can never spend there might be less resentment.

Anyone else remember that Channel 4 programme from the early 2000s where they convinced some people that they had been selected for a space mission?

I certainly do and wondered if Elon Musk had considered something similar for his space tourists………

Not sure why the use of such equipment should be the preserve of the military.

Because; missing sub or helicopter crash stories end startlingly rarely with “…and everyone was fine and had a right good laugh and celebratory slap up dinner at Mrs Miggins’ ”

It’s bad enough that billionaires exist at all, even if they spend their money on ‘nice’ things. However for them to rub our noses in it by spending what would be life changing amounts of money for most of us on pleasure trips to the bottom of the ocean shows us how much they care about us little people. They deserve as much respect or sympathy as they show us. F*** ’em!

I don’t get all the resentment towards rich people spending their money this way.

+1

Intrinsically what’s the difference between a MAMIL throwing themselves down Glentress Red on a £4k enduro gnarpoon, a retired teacher spending their tax free 25% on a bunk on the clipper race, and a millionaire diving in a submarine?

If nothing else they’re all rare examples of trickle down economics actually working, people with more money than they need spending it and creating jobs that wouldn’t otherwise exist rather than just accumulating wealth.

Yeah! Eat the rich!

Anyway, back to the OP…

Interesting thread except for all the weird envy politics stuff. Can’t you start a new thread to moan about people with more money than yourselves.

what thisisnotaspoon said

this

you could argue that any money spent for entertainment, no matter to what degree could be better spent. if we all did this we would be living with the bare minimum of belonging’s, in the most basic accommodation and giving all our spare cash to those who need it more.. but we don’t.

a £300 bike is a big deal to a lot of people in this country alone, a £3000 bike would be considered madness by probably more than 50% of the population. We spend our money that could be better spent for the global good.

Intrinsically what’s the difference between a MAMIL throwing themselves down Glentress Red on a £4k enduro gnarpoon

About £250k and 4000m of water. It’s a laughable comparison.

rather than just accumulating wealth.

You correctly identify the problem. Unfortunately you don’t seem to realise that’s what these billionaires do. By definition they accumulate wealth, thereby preventing that money from being spent on more productive things. Even if a more generous billionaire accumulates 20bn and spends 19 of it, that’s still a billion they don’t need which isn’t being spent on other things.

I personally wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole ( wouldn’t be long enough anyway🙈).

How these people become billionaires making piss poor decisions like going to 4000m in a very basic submersible, is beyond me!

Loads of money – “I can do what the f..k I like attitude”, that is buggering everything up for the rest of us!

Not much sympathy here I’m afraid.

by probably more than 85% of the population.

FTFY

Loads of money – “I can do what the f..k I like attitude”, that is buggering everything up for the rest of us!

Suspect it has buggered it up for them too.

envy politics stuff

As if. The last thing I want to be is a billionaire (or even anywhere close to it). It’s just pure, naked greed and they serve no good or decent purpose. I’m not against success, but accumulating that amount of money is so far beyond any reasonable measure of success that it’s indefensible from pretty much any angle.

The very fact they are billionaires makes it impossible that they’ve done their fair share.

These comments towards Billionaires reminded of this clip from a comedy show about their treatment … https://youtu.be/t5zQpN28xa4

Feel for the people inside that sub and their families, regardless of the circumstances that got them there.

It’s a laughable comparison.

Why? Just think what good could be done with 4k. Quite a lot. 250k worth? Maybe not, but still…

Life changing money for many many people, probably in the UK alone.

I bought a chocolate bar this morning, didn’t need it, ’twas yummy. Also did zero good to the world and was probably actively harmful to me.

Could’ve fed someone in many parts of the world for a week (the money, not the bar!). Do I get scorned and deserve to die now?

I think Oceangate will get absolutely crushed by the relatives.

If there has already been an incident & they haven’t done anything to address that weakness it’s a pretty poorly run thing.
Given how much those tickets are you’d think there’d be basic safety protocols. Like maybe a tracker, maybe an emergency release from the inside…

Would an emergency release that deep be of any use?

Edit: it would if they’re at the surface granted. Or maybe not if it’s rough…

Got to say the more I see about the sub the more it screams “bare minimum” to work, lots of consumer grade parts like the controller and screen and probably whatever they could get away with pushed into safety critical use. Literally no controls to manually operate it if there’s a problem with main control system.  If there’s an inquiry you can almost guarantee lots of emails from concerned engineers being over ruled by managers that are watching the approaching insolvency.

if you could emergency release at that depth you’d instantly be pulped

even if you could survive the pressure differences, it would still take you longer than you could hold your breath to ascend. basically there’s no emergency escape at that depth in any situation.

Lets be realistic. no one goes into their shed and knocks up a submersible that they can hit 4000m with

there has been design, planning and testing. there would be 3rd party evaluation and assessment. this isn’t 2 guys sketching on fag packets.. probably 100’s of people have been involved into a project like this. Xbox controllers are pretty damn reliable.. see how much wear and tear an 11 year old can put one of those through.

until someone professional says, this is a shonky outfit, it should be assumed it is suitable for purpose..

i still wouldn’t do it though, i don’t  need to see an old wreck, that many lost their life on, from a small,  super thick porthole.

if you could emergency release at that depth you’d instantly be pulped

No you wouldn’t.

The internal pressure in that sub is 1 bar, if on the bottom of the sea or on the surface.

Looking at the specs, it only weighs 10t in air and it’s dimensions are given as 670cm x 280cm x 250cm, so unless I’m missing something, it’s displacing 40m3, so it’s very buoyant and would need ballast to submerge?

Can someone check my working?

So if it needs ballast, then a way to drop it in an emergency would be handy.

Given how much those tickets are you’d think there’d be basic safety protocols. Like maybe a tracker, maybe an emergency release from the inside…

Apparently some ballast is heavy iron pipe that lays on a skid, to release it everyone moves to one side of the submersible and it rolls off.  Sounds awful but I suppose there’s beauty in the simplicity that requires no electronics or cables through your pressure hull. One of a number of safety systems not the only method. This info from CBS reporter David Pogue who took a trip on the sub himself.

to release it everyone moves to one side of the submersible and it rolls off

So no rushing to one side to look at a particularly interesting fish then

for people with so much money you’d maybe expect a modicum of some kind of common sense?!:

OceanGate says it is an experimental vessel, and when CBS travelled onboard the correspondent had to sign a waiver accepting that it “has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death”.

that’s from the BBC new article…

Massively done on the cheap, one of only four vessels that can reach these depths apparently, but no communications, no way of alerting anyone if anything goes wrong, no rescue beacon, no back up systems (maybe spare batteries for the controller), no contingency plan for anything and most importantly and no way out even if they did surface…

Also I’ve just noticed ”In one journey the company can go through $1m worth of fuel, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush told CBS News last year.” – so four passengers US$250,000 each – that barely covers the fuel costs, how did they plan to carry on doing this??

And my back of fag packet calculations I think I worked out approx pressure would be 1 ton per square inch at that depth… So life expectancy of approx a second

Could’ve fed someone in many parts of the world for a week (the money, not the bar!). Do I get scorned and deserve to die now?

People with no humanity or empathy would probably think so.

and does anyone know what the one button does??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepsea_Challenger this is the vessel James Cameron descended the Mariana Trench. Has a small spherical steel pressure vessel, impressive foam outer and crucially, saline degrading ballast jettison. It’s always coming back up. Room for only one person. Not me, but I’d risk this over a composite vessel.

”In one journey the company can go through $1m worth of fuel, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush told CBS News last year.”

That doesn’t seem right.

Bunker oil is about $600 per tonne, gas oil more like $800. So that’s at least 1250 tonnes of fuel.

The trip to Titanic was 8 days at sea, no way is that Polar Prince burning 150 tonne of fuel a day.