Oceangate Sub Missing

Won’t a lot of the agencies currently responding to this have had the kit and personnel on standby waiting for an event such as this to happen somewhere on the planet?

By responding and putting their plans into action they are carrying out the tasks that they were set up to do, whilst also using this real situation as an opportunity to learn more about their own capabilities and refine them for next time. On the (unpleasant) job training so to speak.

Whether it be tourists, military, oil workers, whatever, they need to have a plan to rescue people from this type of environment.

Prepare to be deleted….. I was . Only mentioned a scene from the Abyss. 😉

Ooooh….. Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, I had such a teenage crush on her. Possibly not the most suitable word – infatuation.

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re, having plans and kit on standby

this kit is incredibly expensive, takes a lot of trained crew, both of which are generally kept busy on other jobs

so i guess the emergency plans for any scenario like this are a little vague and have to be approached uniquely depending on the situation/locations/resource availability

Wot @alan1977 said.

If they are any good, they will have risk assessed the dive and should have plans for situations, but something like this maybe listed as being “very unlikely” and so accepted without having a replacement sub and crew on 24/7 standby, but with other mitigations in place.

Note: I am not a risk assessor for deep water submersible operations

I’m also not saying it is like people in UK airports not having snowploughs in hangers, but the same thign sort of applies: It does not snow very often or very much in southern UK, so why invest in large numbers of snowploughs and storage, maintenance, etc for them at Gatwick? Just accept that, once every decade, you get 24 hours of disruption when the planets align and it dumps snow on you.

Won’t a lot of the agencies currently responding to this have had the kit and personnel on standby waiting for an event such as this to happen somewhere on the planet?

None of this kit is sitting on stand by waiting for an event like this.

There are some military submarine rescue systems, including the NATO Submarine Rescue System but they cannot operate at the depth this sub is at. They all have significant limitations.

In some respects they are lucky in that this location is close to St Johns, which is a significant offshore base, which will have vessels with ROVs etc.

The shipping companies won’t be doing this nothing either, they will be getting paid by the Coastguard.

Won’t a lot of the agencies currently responding to this have had the kit and personnel on standby waiting for an event such as this to happen somewhere on the planet?

Yes and no.  There are military and government teams permanently on standby for submarine rescue (eg. SPAG and the submarine escape vehicle in Faslane) but they have neither the equipment nor need to operate at these depths.

This is firmly in the remit of the major marine salvage companies such as Mammoet, SMIT, etc.  They tend not to be on standby as such because there is usually little rush to salvage things.  Oil and Gas and merchant navy companies don’t send people that deep and if they lose an ROV there is no need to get it back in a matter of days (or never if to costly to recover)

re, having plans and kit on standby

this kit is incredibly expensive, takes a lot of trained crew, both of which are generally kept busy on other jobs

so i guess the emergency plans for any scenario like this are a little vague and have to be approached uniquely depending on the situation/locations/resource availability

But they clearly have it and were able mobilise within a few hours. Whatever the outcome the rescue agencies will get information from this that could save more lives in the future.

Off topic but related – unfortunately a rich white man died swimming the English channel yesterday, and our indefensible government wasted time and money sending military aircraft out to find him when they could have been preventing economic migrants crossing the channel.

RIP Iain Hughes  🙁

If they are any good, they will have risk assessed the dive and should have plans for situations, but something like this maybe listed as being “very unlikely” and so accepted without having a replacement sub and crew on 24/7 standby, but with other mitigations in place.

I don’t think many of these operations have a replacement sub on stand by.

However, this lot ignored industry practice and didn’t build the sub to recognised standards.

Not seen much from the Tracy brothers, are they not mobilised?

i don’t think they did have the kit on standby

no doubt some people got together, made some phone calls to find out who had any usable equipment that can get to a ship (that they could also call upon) within a timescale. i think the ROV mentioned came direct from the manufacturer. so it is either a new build, or in for work and belonging to another company. It’s highly unlikely one company put their hand up and said we have everything ready to go

Not seen much from the Tracy brothers, are they not mobilised?

No need, James Bond has teamed up with Ethan Hunt and they’re getting it sorted………….

Not seen much from the Tracy brothers, are they not mobilised?

you’d think they would, with all the strings currently being pulled to get everyone together.

But they clearly have it and were able mobilise within a few hours. Whatever the outcome the rescue agencies will get information from this that could save more lives in the future.

They don’t.  I could be wrong but I’ve not seen anything from the news on site that is capable of lifting that thing from the sea floor.  There is equipment that can find it but recovering it is another matter.

Whilst they may learn things from this I can guarantee you no one is going to invest the many hundreds of millions developing the equipment required to maintain a team capable of rescuing deep sea manned submersibles.

But they clearly have it and were able mobilise within a few hours.

They don’t. They have deep water ROV’s for offshore construction and maintenance, which can be used to assist but they are not designed to perform this role.

major marine salvage companies such as Mammoet, SMIT, etc.

Mammoet no longer exist in the salvage industry.

SMIT have no capabilities in this sort of work. They are not a Search and Rescue organisation. Their job is too recover ships and cargo to receive a salvage award according to it’s value or more frequently, to remove wrecks that the authorities want moving, paid for by the ship owners insurance.

Agree with above
It is not surprising OceanGate didn’t have its own rescue operation kit/plan due to the expense of putting it in place.

What I do find surprising is that the great and good would still sign up for this pleasure trip without thinking (or maybe, they did think, but they accepted) the fairy high likelihood of that given the shonky operation and also the awful consequences.

To bring it back to some billionaire bashing (which is what this is all about really isn’t it ,😜) it just goes to show many are rich and powerful due to luck rather than skill /intellect.

OK, it might not have all been boxed up in a hangar with an aircraft outside with the engines running. But the kit was available within a very short time scale. My point is that they will use this as an opportunity to learn.

I could be wrong but I’ve not seen anything from the news on site that is capable of lifting that thing from the sea floor. There is equipment that can find it but recovering it is another matter.

There was mention of some US military equipment which was used to retrieve a military aircraft from a similar depth in the South China Sea – it had the capability to attach a hoist line. Whether the same type of anchor points exist on this is another matter.

This was always going to be a recovery rather than a rescue unless they were bobbing on the surface somewhere. I hope they’ve managed to more or less exclude that as a possibility by now.

magellen have had their kit ready in Jersey PDQ but have been held up by permissions*

*Never saw the thunderbirds having this issue.

There was mention of some US military equipment which was used to retrieve a military aircraft from a similar depth in the South China Sea – it had the capability to attach a hoist line. Whether the same type of anchor points exist on this is another matter.

The operator of that ROV said on the news this morning that it couldnt raise the sub, only attach a line

developing the equipment required to maintain a team capable of rescuing deep sea manned submersibles.

The US has some capability with the CURV-21 ROV for salvaging important things lost at sea.
Deepest its done is 19075 feet for a helicopter.

magellen have had their kit ready in Jersey PDQ but have been held up by permissions

Wow – permissions from who?

OK, it might not have all been boxed up in a hangar with an aircraft outside with the engines running. But the kit was available within a very short time scale. My point is that they will use this as an opportunity to learn.

What “kit”?

From what I understand there is a pipelayer on site, which will have some deepwater capable winches and ROV’s. Not sure if it can deal with 4000m mind. They will have no plans or experience of deepwater sub rescue. Their will be some very knowledgeable people making things up as they go along. They will not expect to be doing this again.

The Canadian and US Coastguard may take this an opportunity to learn but I doubt that the offshore companies will.

The bbc have a famous oceanographer quoted as saying that in hindsight the fact the sub was not certified was cause for concern

Im struggling to see why much hindsight is required here tbh..

@gobuchul  – It’s been a good number of years since I did anything in that area.  They were just a couple of salvage companies I had contact with and could remember the names of.

@Harry_the_Spider – The kit still isn’t available and on site from what I can see.  There is a deep sea working class ROV there but it is very unlikely to be capable of recovering the submersible.  I haven’t seen any winching system on the vessels that can recover it.  The most likely thing capable would be an oil and gas vessel used for subsea infrastructure installation.  I doubt there are any available in that region that can be there in the required timeframes.

Not seen much from the Tracy brothers, are they not mobilised?

They’ve already flown Paul Gascoigne over with emergency fish and chips.

The operator of that ROV said on the news this morning that it couldnt raise the sub, only attach a line

I thought the point was that this line would then be reeled in from a large surface vessel?

In the likely forthcoming  shit-storm of legal claims against OceanGate where the discovery phase will reveal there is an unofficial risk register buried  in a project managers files where the outcome was listed as  “loss of vessel and crew” and the only mitigation was “buy more insurance”.

The US has some capability with the CURV-21 ROV for salvaging important things lost at sea.
Deepest its done is 19075 feet for a helicopter.

That is just a working class ROV with various attachments.  It can’t lift anything by itself.  It’ll be used to find things, cut them free if stuck then attach a winch line for recovery.

In the likely forthcoming shit-storm of legal claims against OceanGate

I’m sure the shredder is whirring as we speak, and the directors busy transferring their personal assets into their relatives’ names.

My mate was round last night who’s spent his career in the Royal Navy, a good chunk of which was on nuclear subs, including ‘going global’ under the polar icecaps.

We were on about this and I asked him if he would have got in this ‘submersible’

his answer?

‘Not a ****ing chance!’

no doubt some people got together, made some phone calls to find out who had any usable equipment that can get to a ship

Don’t think you really have to call. In this sort of thing you see a lot of offers of assistance

I’m sure the shredder is whirring as we speak, and the directors busy transferring their personal assets into their relatives’ names.

Well the CEO is on the sub. So he won’t be worrying about a court appearance.

They’ve already flown Paul Gascoigne over with emergency fish and chips

I shouldn’t have laughed at this should I..

They’ve already flown Paul Gascoigne over with emergency fish and chips.

A fishing rod and some chicken surely?

Of course the upside to all this is that Netflix will have a 6 part documentary series out within the year. They’re probably signing various experts up right now for talking heads roles.

Actually, forget the Tracy Brothers, where is Troy Tempest and WASP?

Of course the upside to all this is that Netflix will have a 6 part documentary series out within the year.

If you can’t wait for that…they already have another ‘amateur submarining goes wrong’ doco.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11394296/

where is Troy Tempest and WASP?

Last i heard his Stingray was stuck in a Marina…

To bring it back to some billionaire bashing (which is what this is all about really isn’t it ,😜) it just goes to show many are rich and powerful due to luck rather than skill /intellect.

or you could say that the rest of us are not rich because we are too risk averse to take a chance!  In fact I think most rich people are rich because a parent was rich.