Oceangate Sub Missing

I wonder what has happened to it? They say they lost contact with it 1hr 45 mins into a dive. No idea how deep it was when that happened but whatever occurred it must be terrifying for the occupants.

The Oceangate website says the sub has  RTM that constantly monitors the hull integrity giving the pilot enough warning to terminate the dive and return to the surface in the event of any issue with the pressure boundary. Assuming this didn’t fail, and therefore something that gave no warning happened, the prognosis doesn’t look good.

Is there any rescue capability that can recover a ten ton sub from the depth of Titanic? There was a line on the BBC where they stated they hope it hasn’t descended to the ocean floor, which I wonder is a slight nod that they wouldn’t be able to recover it.

No I don’t suppose there is – it’s unlikely that any Navy rescue vehicles would be able to dock with it. Plus it’s bolted shut from the outside.

I’ve been reading about this the last couple of days. Seems like a REALLY janky operation. The sub is made from non-certified materials (although they have a number of previous succesful dives) and controlled with an XBOX controller. There is only one entrance/exit which is a cover that is bolted on from the outside. It has oxygen reserves to supply 5 people for 96 hours. I believe it lost contact with the surface boat on Sunday so they’re already well into using up those reserves. Talk over on Reddit is most rescue operations are only effective down to ~1500m and this thing could be close to 4000m down. The thing is, even if they’ve aborted the dive and are bobbing around lost on the surface, they can’t get out because the only exit is sealed from the outside.

This whole thing is legitmate nightmare fuel for me.

£250k per person sounds like a lot but I’d guess the logistics behind it are pricey. If I were a businessman who was savvy enough to make a lot of money. I think I’d have a team looking at the cost and support in great detail.

If something goes wrong at depth it’s not going to be a fun time.

but whatever occurred it must be terrifying for the occupants.

It looks really really bleak. Probable best case is that the occupants didn’t have time to be terrified?

I almost can’t bear to think about it 😰

@oceanskipper

Is it just me or did my post disappear? (about whether rescue capabilities exist). I thought perhaps I didn’t hit post, but your reply seems to be in response to me!

I saw this on the news this morning – floating coffin did spring to mind, although at this stage more likely a sinking coffin.  I was not assured by the bit where they explained it is controlled with x-box controllers (but they did have one spare so you know)

Their rescue plan seems to be shouting for help. Not great when you are in the middle of an ocean

@spooky_b329 – yes I replied to you and your post has indeed disappeared…

As someone who deals with pressure vessels and hydraulic systems on a daily basis – the hydrostatic pressure at 4000m is ~400bar. That is a huge amount of pressure – I have a liquid CO2 tank, substantial great big steel thing, its rated at 25bar. I can’t imagine having to design and build something for >400bar and to then stick humans inside it.

And as for paying someone to have a go in it 4km under water – no **** chance!

Games controllers are actually pretty well designed bits of kit for controlling a machine that can move in a couple of axes. They’re used in other non-games applications too so that bit isn’t so surprising.

The concern above about their being only one exit also isn’t surprising – if you’re building a pressure hull to withstand 4km+ of ocean depth then you don’t want many holes in it.

The fact that the hatch is bolted closed from the outside is a little surprising. Once you get past the first 10m or so the external pressure will hold the hatch shut pretty effectively so it doesn’t need to be clamped down hard, just enough so that you’re sure it’s got a positive seal.

AFAICS there are three scenarios – it’s on the surface but undetected, it had a catastrophic failure at depth or it’s on the seabed. Sadly only one of those has a good outcome, and if it’s lost on the seabed and not snagged on the wreck then it may never be found.

Don’t know how many times it needs to be said really; civilians have no place in either submarines or helicopters.

Don’t know how many times it needs to be said really; civilians have no place in either submarines or helicopters.

One thing is for sure, money can also buy you a unique and memorable death.

Went on a proper submarine once, when in dock. I couldn’t wait to get off the entire time. Hard pass from me.

Do hope they’re found well considering the circumstances, or at least found so families can have some closure.

Don’t know how many times it needs to be said really; civilians have no place in either submarines or helicopters.

Randomly I ended up down a YouTube and Google rabbit hole of Robinson helicopter tailrotor strike crashes recently. It’s bit of a problem when you suddenly chop the tail rotor off!

Seems like a REALLY janky operation. The sub is made from non-certified materials (although they have a number of previous succesful dives) and controlled with an XBOX controller

US military submarines use Xbox controllers, so not that janky.

Going deep sea is harder than going to the moon apparently ?

Wouldnt get me going down there, pitch black, no real way to see out, all to look at a rusty ship. Its just like paying to go to the top of Everest or flying in to space. You have zero control of whether you will succeed or fail

US military submarines use Xbox controllers, so not that janky.

Bet the batteries have run out.

civilians have no place in … helicopters.

Mountain Rescue thank you for your input 😂

Mountain Rescue thank you for your input 😂

The walk will do them good. 😉😂

There is zero chance of any rescue if they are on the bottom.

The only possibility I could think of would be a deep water ROV connecting a specialist deep sea winch, however, by the time that equipment was on site it would be way too late. That’s if they can even find the sub.

If it was a sudden catastrophic failure they wouldn’t of known anything about it.

US Navy subs use XBox controllers to perform the non-critical task of operating the cameras that have taken over from periscopes, not the critical task of piloting the submarine.

I’d still say using a $30 Logitech Xbox controller to pilot your “please sign this waiver because our environmental vessel has not been approved by any regulatory body” submarine is janky.

The only possibility I could think of would be a deep water ROV connecting a specialist deep sea winch, however, by the time that equipment was on site it would be way too late.

I am surprised that there isnt an emergency balloon that deploys and brings it back to the surface. Or is that the point that at that depth a balloon wouldnt inflate, or would just burst ?

It looks really really bleak. Probable best case is that the occupants didn’t have time to be terrified?

There is no point being terrified like they are in the movies (unless they are going to make it in to a movie) Just accept it the end…slowly, very slowly.

I assume as death goes its not too unpleasant, unless it starts to get cold before the oxygen runs out.

Ok i used to design pressure vessels. Ive done them at 1500bar with enough potential energy to take out Huddersfield. A bit of a struggle to fit someone inside unless they were in bits though……Anyhow its obviously and entirely possible, although it was definitely squeaky bum time on gas test.

You cant make something like that out of non certified materials. It just doesn’t happen. The fact its pulled together from off the shelf bits isnt a concern either.

Interesting that they have no comms with it!

TheFlyingOx
Full Member
The sub is made from non-certified materials (although they have a number of previous succesful dives) and controlled with an XBOX controller.

Some kid in Florida is currently wondering why his GTA character is constantly spamming jump even though he’s not touching the controller.

I am surprised that there isnt an emergency balloon that deploys and brings it back to the surface. Or is that the point that at that depth a balloon wouldnt inflate, or would just burst ?

The quantity of gas required would be massive and would have to be at more pressure than the ambient at depth, >400 bar.

Back in the day, the 1st generation deep water subs, without propulsion,  used iron for ballast and petrol for buoyancy. Once they got to depth, they released their ballast and floated back to the surface.

You cant make something like that out of non certified materials.

Why cant you though? I assume they did un-manned missions first before they sent the tin can down full of people, and I assume they did all the fatigue testing? Or is that the point of this, that they have managed to make this commercial as they have dodged all the expensive R&D ?

Ah just read that its a composite hull.

Yea no thanks, wont get me near that. My bet is its collapsed. you get strange things like slipping layers if you like with stuff like that so its a no from me.

I too have been reading about it and agree with some of the above, the way the press are treating it (following a CBS? show last year) is that its all a bit Heath Robinson. Which is fine when you’re building a gazebo in your garden. Less so when you’re charging $250k a pop to take customers 4km to the bottom of the sea.

Outcome looks pretty bleak…

used to build ROV’s

part of my job was testing the pressure housings, think the most we were working to at the time was 120 bar

we had a bad batch of carbon fibre housings made. these things were about 500mm diameter.. 700mm long perhaps, want to say approx 12mm wall. I literally got PTSD from testing these things ,creeping up to max pressure and bang, implosion.. the test vessel rig would jump off the ground and i’d have to go for a long walk and a smoke, before testing the next one.

We’d been making ROV’s for a long time before i started.. there’s no way I’d entertain getting inside a 1 off design like that

hope for the best for people on board

Well it either sounds like a system failure which would mean a fair amount of time for contemplation, or instant squish and you wouldnt be aware of anything

If it imploded surely that kind of explosion would be picked up on sonar or something, or at that depth would the explosion not travel far enough to the surface?

Compare and contrast:

Pakistani business man pays $250 000 each for him and his son to end up in this situation.

100? Pakistani migrants paid $5000 each to end up on a sinking ship off the coast of Greece.

Not sure what to even think about either – other than the world is f’d up – the contrast struck me though

The whole set up seems a bit sketchy.

Their ship is a 60 year old coastguard buoy tender.

Apparently the sub does have an emergency drop weight which should of brought it back to the surface if they lose power.

So it would seem that it’s either bobbing around on the surface or it’s been crushed.

Went on a proper submarine once, when in dock. I couldn’t wait to get off the entire time. Hard pass from me.

I get a bit antsy if the train doors don’t open promptly (especially if the train is very busy) so I can’t imagine what it must feel like being stuck in a tube underwater.

obviously dumb question, but would/could it not have been connected by a rope to the ship?

Ok i used to design pressure vessels. Ive done them at 1500bar with enough potential energy to take out Huddersfield

There’s an unanswered question there.

Can’t see this ending happily, you’d think it’d have some kind of transponder but i guess not.

Compare and contrast:

Pakistani business man pays $250 000 each for him and his son to end up in this situation.

100? Pakistani migrants paid $5000 each to end up on a sinking ship off the coast of Greece.

Not sure what to even think about either – other than the world is f’d up – the contrast struck me though

And one seems to get far more coverage than the other…

A 4km tether would require a dedicated and specially equipped ‘mother’ ship.

From their site, this cost-saving is presented as a virtue:

Benefits of Our Crewed Submersibles:
Reduced cost of deployment and increased mission flexibility, each submersible can be containerized and shipped anywhere in the world by land, sea or air.
Zero tether management issues.
Ability to work off any ship of opportunity.

obviously dumb question, but would/could it not have been connected by a rope to the ship?

Really long ropes are difficult.

If you make them out of steel then all their strength is used to suspend their own weight.

So then you have to use dyneema/aramid and the cost is massive. Also, the winch to handle them is pretty complex.

Also, their surface ship wasn’t dynamically positioned so it would be a non starter anyway.

If it imploded surely that kind of explosion would be picked up on sonar or something, or at that depth would the explosion not travel far enough to the surface?

The US have their sub detection network (SOSUS and various other names) which has a bunch of hydrophones etc spread through the oceans.
So guess there is a chance using that although its unclear, for good reasons, how capable it is and indeed how much remains post coldwar. There would then be the question whether they would want to admit to its capabilities.

Really long ropes are difficult.

If you make them out of steel then all their strength is used to suspend their own weight.

So then you have to use dyneema/aramid and the cost is massive. Also, the winch to handle them is pretty complex.

Also, their surface ship wasn’t dynamically positioned so it would be a non starter anyway.

Also shipwrecks tend to be messy environments with all sorts of opportunities to snag tethers & umbilicals – managing that when you can grab them and shift them round stuff is hard enough, doing it from inside a submersible is exponentially harder.