Not paying VED, check my logic

I’m due to trade in my car, this was scheduled for Friday which, by coincidence, is the day my VED expires. Frustratingly, garage have now pushed dates back to next Friday as new car isn’t ready.

I don’t really need to use my car over the next week but I will need to drive from Scottish Borders to Gateshead for new car day next week.

If I renew my VED I will be able to claim a refund of any complete months, so after refund it will have cost me £30

If I don’t renew it I may get away with it for that journey. If I do get rumbled by police or ANPR I won’t get points but will have to pay £100 fine, £50 if paid quickly.

So, am I missing something? I have a mundane life so shall I have my Breaking Bad moment and take a risk and drive without VED?

edit: afterthought, would fine even come to me if V5 stuff transfers car to dealer on the same date as fine issued?

It can also invalidate insurance, so I wouldn’t risk it for the sake of a few quid – ask for an extra discount on the car, or some mats ?

It can also invalidate insurance

This is why I ask STW, I hadn’t thought about detail like that.

For £30 just pay it and live a stress free life. This is not the time to go Falling Down.

Out of interest I found out that the penalty for having no insurance is only £300 and 6 points. I checked while I was getting back 4 figure quotes on the family wagon.

Timing is never right with this sort of stuff.

My daughter is picking up a new-to-her car tomorrow so she’ll pay for all Mays tax just for 2 days.

Suck it up and pay it, and try and claim it back from dealer.

And any major city will be full of ANPR cameras so I doubt you’d escape.

There isn’t a scheme that makes financial sense with the distance involved, DVLA have had decades of practice

snip…would fine even come to me if V5 stuff transfers car to dealer on the same date as fine issued?

I think that the dealer might point out to DVLA that the owner was franksinatra at the time of the offence

why not just put it on pay monthly ?

as for invalidating insurance – any case law on that one ?

as for invalidating insurance – any case law on that one ?

Technically the car isn’t road legal. Practically, it depends on the insurer

Total guess, but insurance companies being insurance companies, would probably pay out 3rd party, but say your own car is your loss, as presumably valid tax is a condition of the insurance agreement.

Put it on pay monthly is probably easiest, then just cancel the payment once a payment for one month has been collected?

why not just put it on pay monthly ?

Pay monthly and cancelling will work out more expensive than paying annually and getting 11 month refund from DVLA

Get the garage to deliver new car and take old one back (on trade plates if driving), they’re the ones who’ve changed the date.

Pay monthly and cancelling will work out more expensive than paying annually and getting 11 month refund from DVLA

Just do that, then, not worth messing about for the sake of £30.

as presumably valid tax is a condition of the insurance agreement.

Fortunatly insurance companies provide all this information in the policy documentation, so there is no need to presume anything. Just find the relevant section and see if they specify.

@sharkattack I assume though that being done for no insurance would also massively load future premiums.

What happens if:

The copper is awkward,

The car is impounded,

The car is loaded onto a truck,

The car is taken to a compound,

You have to pay £X to release the car.

Siphon any remaining fuel out when you arrive at the dealer, should net about a week’s VED per gallon

How much has the new car costing you?

Pay monthly and cancelling will work out more expensive than paying annually and getting 11 month refund from DVLA

So will getting caught…

as for invalidating insurance – any case law on that one ?

No because it’s not true although they may not cover damage to your car but will third party. Often discussed on PH.

As for OP if you are trading in to the dealer just ask for a full tank of fuel if date change is on them. Definitely don’t risk it as DVLA will know VED is outstanding based on the change of ownership date on the V5.

Out of interest I found out that the penalty for having no insurance is only £300 and 6 points. I checked while I was getting back 4 figure quotes on the family wagon.

Yeah, for…reasons… I forgot to renew my insurance a couple of years ago. After nine months or so I was stopped and fined as above. It didn’t seem to affect my subsequent insurance quotes, so I pretty much came up even.

Consider myself both an idiot and fortunate to have been stopped before anything worse had happened of course.

Or do what I did, many years ago when we even had bits of paper on the windscreen to remind us when it expired. Forget about it and drive around for a month without paying VED. Paid once I realised and it was just back dated. This was a long time ago, when you had to go into a post office and everything!

I think, and someone can correct me if I’m wrong but the order you need to do things is:

1) insurance

2) number plates (yes, you can drive an un-registered car on the road to/from an IVA before it’s registered)

3) MOT

4) Tax

So if the garage has an MOT bay, ask them to book it in and cancel it when you get there.

Or just WBAC it and get the train.

you could declare it sorn and book an MOT (which you then cancel) near the garage you’re trading the car in. You can fully legally drive a car which is SORN any distance for a pre-booked MOT as long as its insured against 3rd party risk, so you should be grand. Its technically bending a few rules, but it is legal

Its technically bending a few rules, but it is legal

Be fun explaining to the policeman why you chose Gateshead for an MOT mind.

remember to take your brass neck

For reference, I forgot to pay the annual VED on on of our cars in December, sometime in February  I was clocked on the M4 and received a noice letter reminding me that my vehicle was untaxed and could I please either SORN or tax it. No fine, which rather surprised me.

On the other hand, bought a  zero VED car last year, not realising that I still needed to ‘tax’ it. That resulted in a fine.

Wouldn’t you have had to pay the extra month on new car also if this week? So either way you pay twice for May or twice for June? Unless it’s zero exempt of course.

Drive car to Gateshead on Thursday and leave it at the garage…then get train or someway else of getting back home/back to garage next week to pick up new car – saves you paying VED or not paying VED and getting a fine and no doubt something a bit more serious for driving without insurance…

I’ve got loads more great ideas like this, so feel free to ask away.

Wouldn’t you have had to pay the extra month on new car also if this week? So either way you pay twice for May or twice for June? Unless it’s zero exempt of course.

This realisation is dawning on me as the thread grows

Drive car to Gateshead on Thursday and leave it at the garage…then get train or someway else of getting back home/back to garage next week to pick up new car – saves you paying VED or not paying VED and getting a fine and no doubt something a bit more serious for driving without insurance…

Cost of this will be more that the VED

I’ll just cough up and pay and forgo the excitement of a day of living dangerously.

Ooo @dickbarton I like the cut of your jib…

I’ll go one further. Drive to Gateshead, park the car at the receiving garage, stay in a swanky hotel (probably not in Gateshead), enjoy a week of C & Geordie flavoured H plus various other forms of Gentlemen’s R&R and in a week’s time, collect new motah. There ya go, you’ve saved yourself £30 VED.

Huzzah! 🙃

enjoy a week of C & Geordie flavoured H plus various other forms of Gentlemen’s R&R and in a week’s time, collect new motah. There ya go, you’ve saved yourself £30 VED

Saved VED and gained VD.

Result! 🙃

I changed cars a couple of weeks ago. Set up the new VED as direct debit. They don’t take the first payment until the 1st of the next month, but they do state that the car is OK to drive straight away before any money has been taken.
So, set up as DD and cancel before it comes out? – although probably cutting it too close with it being right on the end of the month.

*tap tap*

This thing on?

Sorn then booked MOT is a good one. Harry from Harry’s garage used that to get the Scamanda down to Blackpool for its MOT. I’ve used it to drive to Barnsley for work. Annoyingly the sodding thing failed while I was there meaning I had to (legally) drive it home, fix it then drive back the next day for a re-test.

The other route would be to get the garage to send you one of their trade plates for the journey.

Be fun explaining to the policeman why you chose Gateshead for an MOT mind.

remember to take your brass neck

there’s no need to explain it. You’re driving to an MOT, there is no stipulation anywhere in law that it needs to be local, so the policeman (who is extremely unlikely to exist on modern roads) can’t do jack.

Given that it’s only 4 days after sorn was declared, its pretty unlikely to even be up-to-date on their ANPR cameras

Pay up and use it to chip the dealer down by £30.

It’s £30.  I wouldn’t risk it.

You have to either tax it or SORN it, you can’t do nothing.

as for invalidating insurance – any case law on that one ?

It seems unlikely to me.  Back when I had to do everything manually and bits of paper were still a thing, you needed insurance to get tax, you didn’t need tax to get insurance.  Buying the tax disc was the final step in getting a car road-legal.

Things may have changed now of course.

Pay up and use it to chip the dealer down by £30.

This is an excellent idea, given that it’s the dealer’s fault you’re now out of pocket.

Buying a new car, but worrying over £30 ?

Run the old car for another year, that will  save £thousands!

Tell the dealer to deliver the new car and collect the trade-in because he’s late.

If you do decide to run the risk with road tax – are you sure its not ANPR based now and just issued in the post?  IIRC if DVLA penalise you they charge the fine PLUS the “back tax”.  How confident you can travel across counties without passing an ANPR camera?.

It won’t invalidate your insurance. It will show on a police database (not sure how long for) so if you get stopped for some trivial matter in the future may affect their attitude to warning you or penalising you!

Out of interest I found out that the penalty for having no insurance is only £300 and 6 points. I checked while I was getting back 4 figure quotes on the family wagon.

BUT:

1. if you don’t have continuous insurance DVLA can (and often do) issue a fine under s144 of the RTA too – it carries no points but applies whether caught or not.  You can get both.
2. if you do get caught, the will likely impound the vehicle until you can arrange insurance; that costs you the tow truck plus storage costs.  Some cops may let you organise insurance at the roadside but they don’t have to.
3. Insurers don’t like an IN10 on your license so 4 figure quotes are going to be worse.
4. If there’s anything else wrong with the car or its involved in an accident – don’t expect them to issue a fixed penalty – off to court (where it could be more points and probably will be higher fine)
5. If you let your “wife” drive in these circumstance – they’ll often prosecute you both (causing and permitting as well as the driver)
6. If you have an accident the consequences are huge, both financially and criminally – causing a death or serious injury in a car would be most people’s worst nightmare; do it whilst uninsured and its a whole new category of offence.
7. If you are a new driver (<2 yrs) 6pts = retake your test
8. If you get another 6 pts for any reason in 3 yrs – kiss good bye to your license for 6 months

£300/6pts is the penalty for those who have simply forgotten to renew or been careless with paperwork – if they get an inkling you did it intentionally expect them to report for court where the fine is potentially much higher and discretionary disqualification likely to be considered for a blatant / intentional breach.