No-shows? Is this now standard?

I agree it is super annoying, but sometimes people don’t help themselves. I stayed at a hotel last week where the Dinner, Bed and Breakfast offer was significantly cheaper than their standard B & B rate. Consequently me and about 50 other people booked the offer rate, and then went to the awards ceremony next door (which was catered by the same hotel).

This meant that the restaurant which looked like it had 50 bookings on the offer ended up empty.

This thread is why all NHS appointments should carry a nominal fee/deposit.

I’ve had the misfortune to have a lot of appointments recently, and it’s also noticeable how many people wander in deliberately late because they expect the Doc to be behind.

People are arseholes

This thread is why all NHS appointments should carry a nominal fee/deposit.

Our non NHS dentists receptionist phones round everyone the day before to remind them of their appointments for the next day. Guess that’s one proactive way of dealing with it & maybe the way businesses are dealing with a rise in no shows.

Edit – and just this minute got a call from the garage to remind me of my MOT & service booking.

Our non NHS dentists receptionist phones round everyone the day before to remind them of their appointments for the next day. Guess that’s one proactive way of dealing with it & maybe the way businesses are dealing with a rise in no shows.

Mine just charges you upfront when you make the booking! Must be a right bunch of slackers round here to decide thats the policy they need.

Personally I’d expect 100% refund.  I’ve run events that have been cancelled due to weather and we refund all of the cost – not just the bit we got from the payment provider / processing platform.  That’s OUR risk as the organiser.

Yeah, I had an argument with a well-known MTB race organiser back when foot and mouth caused cancellations. He tried to extract an admin fee from the refund to cover his losses. I argued that making a loss was his risk -I didn’t ask for a share of his profit at a normal event. Unfortunately it’s now become standard practice.

Happens in all activities – MrsJ sets her alarm to wake up in time to book gym classes 2 weeks ahead. Often she is too late, even though bookings have only been open for a few minutes. Then on the day the class is half empty. Same with tradesmen – I now assume that they won’t actually turn up, until the point when they appear on the doorstep.

a couple of restaurants near me don’t take bookings, but you turn up and they advise how long the wait is and give you a buzzer and send you off to the pub, until it buzzes and then you return to the restaurant for your table to be ready

DNS(A)

Did Not Show (Arsehole)?

Think it’s a bit like people ordering 3 sizes of something from Amazon and sending 2 back knowing they will probably be binned.

That’s a supplier issue. Assuming they only refund resellable items, what’s it got to with me that they foolishly decide to bin it?

** in my case footwear from appropriate suppliers

Yeah, I had an argument with a well-known MTB race organiser back when foot and mouth caused cancellations. He tried to extract an admin fee from the refund to cover his losses. I argued that making a loss was his risk -I didn’t ask for a share of his profit at a normal event. Unfortunately it’s now become standard practice.

Race organisers didn’t have much of an idea how to manage things when it all began to go online. In the days of postal entries, riders had to be organised, plan their season and get their entry in 3 weeks in advance.

With online entry, organisers were like “ooh, we can leave entry open until 2 days to go cos it’s all efficient and automated!” All that happened was riders would put off entering until 3 days to go leaving an organiser sitting there wondering if their event was actually going to get any entrants at all (half of whom would be watching the weather forecast and if it looked like rain, they’d bin off the idea of racing).

Organisers started getting all threatening (“enter now or the event will be cancelled!”) and riders understandably got pissed off that they were being told to enter. Whole thing was a mess for a couple of years as organisers and riders all tried to game the system.

That’s a supplier issue. Assuming they only refund resellable items, what’s it got to with me that they foolishly decide to bin it?

O)f course they cannot sell refunds as new – they will have to discount them.  Would you buy something that had been out of its packaging and tried on as if it were new?

Would you buy something that had been out of its packaging and tried on as if it were new?

Have you never been to a shoe shop? Or a clothes shop? Or a bike shop? There’s loads of places where you buy things “as new” and pay new prices for stuff that have been tried on by multiple people beforehand.

@binners Thats appalling.

Think it’s a bit like people ordering 3 sizes of something from Amazon and sending 2 back knowing they will probably be binned

Say what? I often order a couple of items (Sometimes running shoes then send 1 pair back and keep 1, obvs take the hit on 2 lots of postage). Are they throwing away the £100 shoes I slipped on with my running socks then returned in pristine condition? I worked in a running shop and pairs were often tried on many times before somebody bought them “as new”

This thread is why all NHS appointments should carry a nominal fee/deposit.

Tax on the sick?

Both my Gp and local hospitals text you the day before an appointment to remind you.  I have had the misfortune to need them a bit recently All but one appointment have run to time  withing a few minutes and no one arriving late.  If you are late you might get seen at the end of the clinic or you might not.

Say what?

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-06-21/amazon-destroying-millions-of-items-of-unsold-stock-in-one-of-its-uk-warehouses-every-year-itv-news-investigation-finds

.

Same way that having to pay for food is a tax on the hungry. Only evil capitalist pig-dogs could support such a system.

There are businesses who vet customers based on spending power and what suits them.

Here’s a few examples from the hospitality industry I’ve come across. Restaurants consisting of four/multi seat tables give preference to people booking a full table. You have no chance of booking a table for two on Friday or Saturday night. Nightclubs who let female customers in for free/give them a free drink. Some B&B owners turn away customers who only need a single nights stay based upon it not being worth their time to clean the room for a single nights income.

Where opportunism is being met with opportunism i.e. spread booking to ensure you get something on a busy night I have no sympathy. Most restaurants/pubs allocate a small number of tables (the worst tables next to the toilets etc) for walk-ins!

the captain – so what happens if you are on benefits and cannot afford your multiple appointments?    I had 5 in a two week period IIRC.  ast as fiver apiece thats 25 quid  or 1/4 of your money for the week!

Absurd idea that will entrench inequality and disproportionately affect the poor and the disabled.  and lead to increased illhealth as people avoid going to the doctor

Absurd idea that will entrench inequality and disproportionately affect the poor and the disabled.  and lead to increased illhealth as people avoid going to the doctor

Yeah but people who can afford it will have access to more appointments. Every small businessman I’ve ever met see’s it like this!

That’s how we do things in the UK. Stitch-ups backed by the shifty little turds who benefit from it telling any and every lie to try and get it over the line.

We’ve a family member who I had a tiff with over them booking two or more restaurants on holiday, only intending to make use of one, but wanted ‘options open’ as ‘no one decides what they want for tea the day before’…. It’s horrid and selfish.

That is indeed horrid and selfish, and people who do that should be named and shamed, preferably with their contact details added to a list shared among all the local restaurants and eateries in order that those responsible get told, sorry, we don’t have any tables available.

I’ve witnessed it happen, in a little family restaurant/cafe, where they were waiting for some people to come in for a pre-booked meal, they phoned the customers and they just kept giving excuses over the phone, there were staff there, and food ready to be prepped!

I’ve booked a table for six in a couple of weeks time, for my birthday; I didn’t pay a deposit, but I’ve been going to the place every Friday and Saturday night to drink since the blokes who run it opened it, and to their previous pub for several years – it would be stupid and embarrassing to pull a stunt like that. Also, they’re friends, so circumstances would have to be pretty dire to have to cancel anyway.

It’s just not something I could imagine doing, I just wasn’t brought up to be an asshole to other people.

the captain – so what happens if you are on benefits and cannot afford your multiple appointments? I had 5 in a two week period IIRC. ast as fiver apiece thats 25 quid or 1/4 of your money for the week!

Absurd idea that will entrench inequality and disproportionately affect the poor and the disabled. and lead to increased illhealth as people avoid going to the doctor

I agree – you just can’t charge, even if you refund if you turn up. What would be a meaningful ‘fine’ for some would be an insurmountable amount of cash for others to put down even as a refundable deposit.

There has to be something though. Not sure what GPs do about serial no shows currently. Most dentists operate a 2 strikes and you are off the books system but I don’t think you could do that (or even want to) for GP.

* in my case footwear from appropriate suppliers

Which is why my mates gf is able to buy shoes for £1 a pair at her warehousing job ?

A guy I chat to at the gym has run a portrait photography business for 20+ years and no shows have got steadily worse over the last five years or so. He actually employees a retired lady – ex receptionist with a very good phone manner – to call clients the day before and on the day of bookings to confirm attendance but still gets a lot of no shows.

About a year ago he started doing pet photography – mainly dogs – and finds that he has far fewer no shows amongst that demographic.

A guy I chat to at the gym has run a portrait photography business for 20+ years and no shows have got steadily worse over the last five years or so. He actually employees a retired lady – ex receptionist with a very good phone manner – to call clients the day before and on the day of bookings to confirm attendance but still gets a lot of no shows.

About a year ago he started doing pet photography – mainly dogs – and finds that he has far fewer no shows amongst that demographic.

Bill 50-100% up front in an online booking system with ‘no returns’ terms. This is my industry (though I work in the commercial sector) and it pains me to see it being walked all over and demeaned in some places.

This thread is why all NHS appointments should carry a nominal fee/deposit.

As TJ says that is a bad idea.

Some of those people will have a mental health reason for not showing up.  Some of those people will have been too sick to make it.  Some were relying on public transport that didn’t work.  Both my father and daughter have had hospital letters arrive on the day or day after the appointment.    Do you want the NHS to have an admin team taking payments and considering whether this is a good enough reason for a refund or doing useful stuff?  Nobody is really interested in getting under the skin of the reasons for no shows – and solving the root problem.

Now some will just be forgetful, recover and not think its important etc – but those are the sort of people who won’t care about £5/10 anyway so you don’t actually free up capacity – once you’ve done the admin you won’t actually make that much.  Based on my observations appointments are more notional than fixed, so if you know you get 10% no shows you can overbook and live with it – yes somedays you’ll be swamped but have you ever heard someone in the NHS complain they were too quiet?  My GP friend says no shows are actually the only way she catches up on the other appointments!

Then what is the consequence for this on the very sick – chest pains and don’t have a tenner, you’ll need to call back when you do!  Or are A&E appointments exempt – in which case you just dump everyone from GP to A&E.   Got a dodgy looking lump but its middle of month – I’ll wait till payday to get that investigated as I can’t afford the fee/deposit.

Unfortunately this does seem to be the norm nowadays.

I find more people only think of themselves and probably “justify” (to themselves) the no show with some lame excuse and don’t give a second thought to the ones who have been let down.

I wonder what they have said if they turned up and the classes had been cancelled?

My doctors surgery always sends out a text message reminder to patients about their appointments, but according to the little sign in the waiting room, there’s still a small percentage who don’t turn up, and can’t be arsed to let them know.

Booking with no deposit via a web form of some sort might be the issue here…it’s too anon…If you have to phone up, and speak to someone to book a table, it becomes more of a social contract rather than just clicking a few buttons as it’s more personal.

It’s the same, but slightly reversed reason employers require people to phone in sick rather than call in sick via email or text.

I’d suggest for free events you have people phone you to make a reservation, (to reserve your free spot just call ***********) and make them give a name, & email or phone number, rather than just click ‘yes’ on a web page.

Also, NHS wise, if you charge a fee folk see it as a service they can pay to use. A colleague had a kid in nursery that had an issue with parents being late for pick up, so they started charging for varying degrees of lateness, which made it worse as those that just made it didn’t try as hard to get there on time, and those that were repeat offenders just got later.

Is it a bit like being a Free Member and then moaning about the forum?

A colleague had a kid in nursery that had an issue with parents being late for pick up

Someone’s read Freakonomics…

This meant that the restaurant which looked like it had 50 bookings on the offer ended up empty.

You could have told the restaurant you didn’t need the booking, though.

I’d suggest for free events you have people phone you to make a reservation, (to reserve your free spot just call ***********) and make them give a name, & email or phone number, rather than just click ‘yes’ on a web page.

assuming of course you don’t want anyone under 25 there!   Its just not how they are used to communicating and for most that would be a barrier to signing up.  Inevitably you’ll also get a lot more typos in email addresses and admin mistakes as “your end” too unless you have a dedicated person on a phone line able to process it – so it’s not interrupting your normal activity.

you will also be putting a significant barrier in place for deaf or mute people.

Note, the NHS and the like (assume restaurants too?) work on a No-Show percentage – just makes it a bit busy if more than expected turn up.

Both my father and daughter have had hospital letters arrive on the day or day after the appointment

I’ve had this! For a minor surgery. My local trust now send text messages as well as letters. Thank god!

Note, the NHS and the like (assume restaurants too?) work on a No-Show percentage

Is this a regional thing?  My GPs do not overbook and all my recent hospital appointments are not either – they are booked in 10 min or 15 min slots.  ~No capacity to overbook

Did Not Show (Arsehole)?

Those are marked only DNS. This thread is about those who just don’t turn up, not those decent enough to apologise in advance. In TT land, some riders looks at the weather and if it looks a slow or wet day, just don’t bother.

Note, the NHS and the like (assume restaurants too?) work on a No-Show percentage

Never heard of that before. Just checked our DNA (did not attend) was 51 pts last week, pretty average, as others have said, it’s not just laziness, 45% of those pts had depression as a long term condition.

Mine just charges you upfront when you make the booking! Must be a right bunch of slackers round here to decide thats the policy they need.

After not going for a while post covid, got back to mine and noticed it’s all up front charges and loads of notices about being kicked off the books for repeat no shows.

Though not sure if the up front charge is private or NHS or both as they do both. I’m on a plan though so not paid up front, oddly even for cracked tooth last week which isn’t covered by the plan.

Never heard of that before. Just checked our DNA (did not attend) was 51 pts last week, pretty average, as others have said, it’s not just laziness, 45% of those pts had depression as a long term condition.

I remember an Allied Health clinic trying to call DNAs to find out the reasons and see if there was anything they could help. Those that answered were generally very apologetic saying they’d forgotten. Lots more just didn’t answer the call. Awkward.