& this tread was ticking along so sweetly, I did wonder when the bickering would start

Discussion != bickering.

it basically tells the light meter to meter based on the comp so exp comp -1 means the light meter assumes minus one is 0 (if that makes sense). D300.

PS – and when you start working with lights (flash or studio) you do start thinking in shutter speed, fstops and to a lesser degree ISO levels by nessesity (primarily due to sync speeds, effect of shutter speed on depth of light etc).

Gotcha – so basically it just adjusts what 0 means on this display

here

but doesn’t actually alter the shutter/aperture setting?

The D300 does have P, A, S auto modes by the way. just hidden away on a button rather than on a dial.

Yes – if it’s in manual you change the actual S,A&ISO settings obv. It’s just the meter indicator you see through the viewer takes the comp in to consideration so if you program your cam to expose to the left then you can still use the LM as it’s easier to see rather than figuring out where a 1/3d or 1.5stops to the left is on the guage.

A is for Aperture though – not “Auto”. Program is still user manageable – you can turn the knobs and it will change the inputs.

Got any examples you can show us here with that lens Mintman?

ta.

My flickr account is here flickr but not many taken with the 50mm lens. The only one on there that springs to mind is the Edinburgh Tattoo one, taken at night (some flood lights admittedly) on minimum aperture and I couldnt do that with the stock 18-55mm lens that I also have.

I’ll add some 50mm photos later today and i’ll let you know. Please not i’m not exactly professional!

Okay gotcha. I’ve no idea if it works like that on the D80 to be honest. I guess it probably does.

Incidentally the meter indicator looks a LOT finer grained on the D300 compared to the D80, which doesn’t even appear on the top panel and is fairly small on the viewfinder image:

A is for Aperture though – not “Auto”.

yer I know but it’s an “Auto mode” (i.e. it calculates the shutter speed for the ‘correct’ exposure automatically). As I said I think we were probably talking at cross-purposes earlier.

I was going with the official Nikon naming: P/A/S/M as “Programmed Auto“, “Aperture-Priority Auto“, “Shutter-Priority Auto“, and Manual respectively.

The completely auto idiot scene modes are officially called the “Digital Vari-Programs”. And confusingly there is an “Auto” digital vari-program which I suspect is what you think I meant.

There’s some useful stuff here for the first time user of a D90:
Ken Rockwell’s D90 User Guide

Ken Rockwell is very opinionated and you have to take a lot of his stuff with a pinch of salt, it’s worth a read though…

I have taken his recommendation and configured an “extra vivid” custom colour setting on my D90. In the right situations it works (and saves time doing the same thing in Picasa later…=
Picture Control

Programmed Auto

What you’ve got there, I’d suggest, is “semi-automatic.”

The completely auto idiot scene modes are officially called the “Digital Vari-Programs”.

That’s almost as bad as Canon; the scene modes outside of the noddy presets like “Sport” are called “the creative zone.”

Ken Rockwell is very opinionated and you have to take a lot of his stuff with a pinch of salt,

What you’ve got there, I’d suggest, is “semi-automatic.”

Yep, fair description – but then you’re left with:
“What does the P stand for?”, “Semi-Automatic” 😀

And possibly the further confusion:
“Oh right, like a gun, so one shot at a time, but no need to wind on to the next one..”

Yep, fair description – but then you’re left with:
“What does the P stand for?”, “Semi-Automatic”

I meant as a blanket description of the -priority modes.

I wonder if part of the “manual” discussion back there might have been because I was taking manual to mean fully Manual, whereas perhaps others were using the term to mean anything other than full Auto? Maybe.

bazep – Member
it basically tells the light meter to meter based on the comp so exp comp -1 means the light meter assumes minus one is 0 (if that makes sense). D300

Awesome – I didn’t know it did this. Will have to try it out later on the D80.

Yeah I think so Cougar. I meant Manual as M, as you did, I think others use it to mean anything that isn’t the überidiot “AUTO” mode on the dial (including the scene modes), and to other others the scene modes are all “auto” and “manual” means any of P,A,S or M.

All terribly confusing. 😕

Will have to try it out later on the D80.

Just had a read of the D80 manual book and page 54 says it does indeed work the same way on the D80:

“Exposure compensation is available in modes P, S, and A (in mode M, only the exposure information shown in the electronic analog exposure display is affected; shutter speed and aperture do not change).”

Really intereresting thread this, good to see how others set their gear up.

Personally, if shooting gigs I tend to use the highest ISO available if light is limited and shutter priority to control movement.

For portraits I preselect a low ISO and use full manual, including focus.
Same with landscapes and use a tripod for both.

For general snapshots I tend to use manual aperture and shutter, but with autofocus and auto ISO (set between predetermined settings).

Don’t tend to take many sports shots, but use shutter priority and auto ISO with auto focus.

Still think it’s better to start with everything set to manual.
Start with simplicity, then add complication when required.
For me, it’s just easier, but I am a bit of a Luddite 😀

Manual is manual – full manual in my book. Auto is auto is the green auto selector on the D90 and below Nik’s, i.e. point and shoot mode. A is aperture and not auto, S is Shutter and not auto and P is probably best described as semi-auto. IMV

not sure it matters like.
And it looks like it does work in the way I said it did – M mode equals it’s all in your hands but the light meter can be essentially fooled by the comp to show what you want it to show. I guess it comes down to how you use the cam and the light meter.

I have a D80, and the D90 (and D7000 even more so!) are big leaps on in technology. The D7000 I recently (last week) saw discounted to about £900 with a VR lens, very good value. My D80 is now four years old and I find myself craving for something with HD video and much higher ISO sensitivity (lots of stage photography).

I use manual a lot, but mainly with Flash. This way I can meter for the background (and underexpose a little) and then have the flash/camera correctly meter for the main subject.

Or I can set the camera to 1/200 sec (max flash sync) and set a sensible f stop and then let my bank of flashes make up the correct amount of light (wireless).

not sure it matters like.

Yep, wasn’t trying to argue with you. (surprisingly for STW) just trying to clear up the confusion. Nikon officially call the P,A,S modes “Auto” but then put the Green AUTO on the dial too so they haven’t exactly been clear. 😆 (maybe it makes more sense in Japanese)

Oh well, so now we have that cleared up. How do you go about shooting a scene in (full) manual?

I imagine you might select an aperture, then twiddle the shutter speed till the light meter says you have the ‘correct’ exposure, is that right? Does that gain you anything over just using Aperture-priority or is it just a different approach to it?

CHB – Member
I have a D80, and the D90 (and D7000 even more so!) are big leaps on in technology.

Not sure about the D90 being a big leap on over the D80.
It is definitely a more capable body, mainly down to better ISO performance & the fact that it incorporates live view & video capability (in my opinion). But it doesn’t do anything that makes me want it over the D80.

I’ve never been that bothered about videoing stuff though, so when I used my mate’s D90 I was distinctly underwhelmed by it. Definitely not worth upgrading to from the D80 in my opinion.
The D7000 however, that does seem massively more capable.

Nikon D-Wunundred!

No I jolly well have not got one. 🙁

What I would like, is a D-700 with the full-frame sensor but it’s proper spensive is that. I’m hoping Nikon will bring out a ‘consumer’ FX sensor cam soon.

A digital FM2 would be the nuts.

You’ve been waiting all day to do that joke, haven’t you? (-:

You’ve been waiting all day to do that joke, haven’t you? (-:

😀

“What does the P stand for?”

P = Programme mode, where the cam sets the aperture and shutter speed according to the lighting conditions. Can be shifted to favour shutter speed or aperture, but essentially gives the ‘correct’ exposure.

The Green Rectangle or ‘Auto’ mode is an ‘idiot’ mode for when you just want full auto of everything point and shoot snap mode. No manipulation of A or S, and I think it locks the cam in HocusPocus mode too. May also set a particular light-metering mode (IE not Spot Metering), single frame advance, and set auto-flash if necessary. A redundant mode if you actually know what you’re doing with a cam, but can occasionally be useful if you’re having a few and just want to rattle off a few snaps without worrying about setting the cam up for optimum performance.

Graham-S
I’ll use all modes in different situations tbh (except P). Shutter for if I need to either stop or capture some motion (sports, aircraft or the like), Aperture probably the majority of the time, or for people. I use manual when I’m confident the camera will either be fooled or I know something is going to change which I want to capture differently than the camera meter would see (in any of the three modes). I sometimes you exp lock or similar to get to the same place but with the d300 knobs where they are it’s just as easy to flick a button and turn the two dials for manual. I don’t use Manual that often though as it’s mostly in a fairly well controlled environment these days.
HTH

Quick Q for the D90 owners. Since upgrading the firmware on mine, to 1.002, I’m unable to format the memory card with the two button shortcut.

Anyone else get that?

Elf: yeah we know, read back a bit further 🙂

bazep: okay that sounds more like how I use it. I probably use aperture-priority 95% of the time.

So when you (or anyone else that wants to answer) want to take a (fully) Manual shot where you know the meter is going to be fooled then how do you pick the correct shutter speed?

Is it just experience? Recognising the light? Or do you spot meter off something in Aperture-priority then transfer the settings from that into Manual? Or do you just shoot, consult the histogram and then adjust?

(this was my original point about “isn’t manual basically guess work?”)

(while trying to avoid monopolising the conversation)
The meter still works in manual so either meter off something you think will give an accurate reading (still in manual) or potentially set the app you want and bracket the exposure if you’re really not sure. If you’re shooting in RAW it doesn’t have to be bang on either as you can tweak the image file by a stop or two without degrading the image too much.

the subject is moving too fast to get a crisp shot at 1/125sec due to the light conditions, so what do I have to do to achieve a faster shutter speed. Stick it on Auto?

That’s what shutter priority mode is for. Not the same as manual for me.

You are probably shooting at 1/250 f8 at the moment or thereabouts. Be aware there are some clouds coming over so you’ll lose X stops of light so will need to increase your aperture by Y amount, your shutter by Z or increase your ISO

Or.. just get the camera to do it and tweak it with the comp.. it’s quicker!

molgrips – Member

You are probably shooting at 1/250 f8 at the moment or thereabouts. Be aware there are some clouds coming over so you’ll lose X stops of light so will need to increase your aperture by Y amount, your shutter by Z or increase your ISO

Or.. just get the camera to do it and tweak it with the comp.. it’s quicker!

Up above there was a comment about can you guess that for a certain shot you’ll need X shutter, Y aperture & Z ISO?
My point was that this guy had been taking photos for so long that he could do this. It was a workshop, he was trying to help up improve our photography so was suggesting things to try. He was able to anticipate the changes we might like to make, judging by what the weather was doing and he was pretty much correct all the time.

I think the main reason he mentioned it was because people who were shooting in P or A, might not notice that the camera would start to decrease shutter speed as the cloud came over and this might result in blur. He was suggestion methods to combat this and providing settings that on the whole, worked.

Actually mol, birds against sky are one of the situations I’d probably consider using fully manual.

You’re probably wanting to expose correctly to see the bird detail, but all that bright sky will make a (semi)automatic mode (like Aperture-priority) get the exposure to dark. And the chances of hitting the bird with the spot-meter every time are pretty low if you’re trying to get it in flight.

that’s fine if you know the bird you’re going to be shooting before it flies past you, i find I use the fuller features of my cam when trying to get BiF – 3d tracking over 51 focus areas in continuous focus mode on Ap priority unless the light is fading. When the light’s fading then start to hop around to get the best combination. Might rarely use manual for really low light just to get a shot.

Sorry – also – you’ll need to hit the bird with the spot anyway if you want it in focus so it might be a moot point.

Actually mol, birds against sky are one of the situations I’d probably consider using fully manual.

If I were shooting birds (as I have done, fairly poorly admittedly but the issue has been focusing and holding the camera steady, never metering) then I’d put it on aperture priority for my largest aperture and highest ISO that I could use for the available light, and let the camera choose as fast a shutter speed as it could.

Does anyone have experience with wide angle lenses on the D90? I’m currently looking at the Nikon 12-24 and 10-24, as well as the Tokina 11-16. I’m wondering if the limited zoom of the Tokina is a problem in practice. Any other wide angle lenses to consider for sensible money?

Not had any experience of them but I know a lot of folk who went for the siggy 10-20.

Do yourself a favour and buy one of these books.

Nikon D90 Companion

Don’t mean to be a photographic bore … but the only thing a reflective meter (i.e. the one in your camera) is going to do is tell you what setting to expose whatever you are metering at … as the mid tone i.e. 18% grey.

Hence the understanding of manual exposure is pretty important. Nothing like spot metering a nice white wedding dress, and losing the shadow details of the grooms tux, or vise-versa and blowing out the highlights of a dress.

The old adage that I have always followed is to expose for the highlights … and in the old days develop for the shadows.

Understanding that a white dress falls 2 to 3 stops over mid grey means you can meter the dress, transfer the same readings to manual exposure and adjust either aperture / shutter speed the required amount. Knowing that skin tone is typically mid tone also helps, or even grass for that matter. Knowing what the histogram means will also help prevent clipping (or better yet purchase an incident meter and understand it)

Relying on in build meters IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES can cause confusion for newcomers, as the tone priority of a scene changes, your camera will automatically compensate (i.e. zooming in, recomposing). Don’t get me wrong, “P” or auto modes certainly have their uses, but you may as well learn what your camera is doing, so you can then apply it correctly.

If you are serious about photography, id highly recommend learning about light, Ansel Adams developed the “bible” as such (ok there are detractors but Im going with what I know) and his Zone system can shed some light (no pun intended) on the situation.

As to the example above or shooting a bird in flight, if the same light is reflecting off the bird, as is reflecting off a nearby tree … simply spot meter off the tree for your mid tone and set your camera to manual. You will sacrifice your highlights (sky) but Id assume the subject matter is more important.

Elf: yeah we know, read back a bit further

Alright bluddyell only trying to be elpful jeeze….

😥

So when you (or anyone else that wants to answer) want to take a (fully) Manual shot where you know the meter is going to be fooled then how do you pick the correct shutter speed?

Pends on the subject, lens in use, desired effect etc dunnit? Faster shutter speed to freeze action, and the rule of thumb I use is to pick a minimum speed ‘similar’ to the focal length of the lens you are using, so 1/250th for a 200mm lens, 1/60th for a 50mm, 1/30th for a 28mm etc.

Faster shutter will necessitate larger aperture which is useful in portraiture of course.

‘Rule’s are there as guidelines though really. Useful, but not always appropriate:

Fast shutter, 1/250th of a sec or something, just enough to stop the rider but allow for a tiny bit of wheel blur:

Slow shutter, half a sec or something, to create blur and accentuate movement:

Don’t mean to be a photographic bore …

FTFY. 😉
On a more serious note. Do you consider the second photo to be a good photo, Elfin?

If I were shooting birds

I don’t think we want to know such things on a Family Forum Mol, thank you very much. 😐

You’re not one of those ‘glamour’ tographers are you? You dirty…… 😡

I like both of freds pics.