NI bonfires WTF

policing by consent

More like being willing partners with extreme unionists for decades. Very difficult to put that genie back in the bottle.

I just don’t agree with religious indoctrination of children full stop.

What do you think happens actually at ‘faith’ schools?

I don’t know about indoctrination. How do you think kids generally respond to people banging on about Jesus? As someone who endured a Catholic education I can assure you that there is no more effective method to ensure a nation of atheists.

When you’re 16 the last thing on earth you want to be doing is reading the bible (we were forced to take RE at GSCE). I took the opportunity on my final exam to ignore the questions and write a detailed appraisal of my opinion on the Catholic church. I was rewarded with a U (Unclassified) as a result. I was quite pleased with my days work. 😀

I don’t know about religion, if you could put up with the RE, we just got a better standard of education than the godless heathens up the road. I would imagine thats the case for 99.999% of the people sending their kids to ‘faith’ schools.

Interesting fact for you: Catholic schools are particularly popular with Muslim parents.

@Dangeourbrain Tbh, up here in the west of Scotland wastelands, RC schools are pretty much the only faith schools that feature in almost every town, venture into Glasgow and You’ll get schools of other faith, but not out in the sticks, which is where most of the said nitwits reside.

Crikey i really don’t know why people live in those areas, I’d be out as soon as I could to get away from all that rubbish, the violence etc.

More like being willing partners with extreme unionists for decades. Very difficult to put that genie back in the bottle.

That too.

But you see it on a smaller scale in England too – even when the police are at daggers drawn with the ‘group’ concerned. In some cases (and not wanting to go OT or too controversial) there is clearly a trade-off of an acceptable level of petty crime associated with a given event vs the potential implications of policing it how ‘regular day to day life’ might be policed. The police do weigh these things up. They have to.

Crikey i really don’t know why people live in those areas, I’d be out as soon as I could to get away from all that rubbish, the violence etc.

Can’t tell if this is a joke or so unaware of the privelage you have to be able to ‘just move’ because you don’t like it

Crikey i really don’t know why people live in those areas, I’d be out as soon as I could to get away from all that rubbish, the violence etc.

Most of the people who live there probably would too. These aren’t exactly salubrious neighbourhoods with high levels of employment and the best education these Isles can offer. That’s a big part of the problem in NI and anywhere else really. The “trouble” is invariably a close bedfellow to poverty.

Of course faith schools are about indoctrinating children into believing medieval myths about sky fairies. Its their only purpose in existing

No faith school should be getting any government funding.

To me faith schools are a form of child abuse. Utterly disgusting the damage they cause

we just got a better standard of education than the godless heathens up the road. I would imagine thats the case for 99.999% of the people sending their kids to ‘faith’ schools.

School with selective admissions and additional funding stream in better results shocker.

Tbh, up here in the west of Scotland wastelands,

It’s fairly unavoidable that you’ll end up with geographical bias but if you look close enough you always will. Of course the folks building those bonfires aren’t likely to be taking a broad overview, but rather that the primary school they nearly burnt down with their leaning tower of paletza is being forced to dump its CofI affiliation and that this is yet another step towards the unwanted reunification.

I’d love to see a united Ireland tbh, but dunno if I’d wish that lot on Ireland.

@nobeerinthefridge

I agree they would find something else to nail their bigotry to but my argument is that if you mix kids rather than treating one set as different then that’s one less barrier and IMO at a far more significant stage of a person’s development. Its coming anyway, the very obvious stud wall partitions between Largs Primary and St Mary’s show the ambition.

This isn’t an argument about catholics, this is about faith schools full stop. If it was the other way round I’d still be saying the same thing, be under no illusions.

Of course faith schools are about indoctrinating children into believing medieval myths about sky fairies. Its their only purpose in existing

No faith school should be getting any government funding.

To me faith schools are a form of child abuse. Utterly disgusting the damage they cause

Meanwhile, in the 21st century real world, both my kids went to the CodE primary here in the village, and youngest is at a Catholic academy. Despite/because of regular church services, assemblies and now Mass, neither of them are remotely religious, but they are surprisingly well educated and tolerant of those who are, regardless of which sky fairy is involved.

While there are lots of things I’d like to change about education and religious practices, the vast majority of kids coming out of religious backed schools nowadays are not manic, intolerant religious crazies who have been groomed and abused. And certainly locally, if you restrict the involvement of religious organisations, then the education provision would be much worse. They are schools supported by religious groups, not faith schools supported by the public money.

Edit – realise the situation in sleepy Englandshire is not the same as NI or Scotland and my experience worth nothing in those contexts

Of course faith schools are about indoctrinating children into believing medieval myths about sky fairies. Its their only purpose in existing

They’re not very good at it then

They are schools supported by religious groups, not faith schools supported by the public money.

Bollox. Are they totally independent or do they have government funding?

Its utter nonsense to say religious schools are not about indoctrination. thats their entire purpose. Of course it will not take on some kids but religious indoctrination is the whole purpose of faith schools.

Its disgusting to me that my tax money is given to religious bigots to indoctrinate children IMO its simply child abuse to indoctrinate children in this way.

Edit – see the edit – of course thats true

@squirrelking I completely agree, but I think the folks that completely hang their hat on that being the cause are missing a lot of other factors.

When I was at primary school, St Brendans down the road had a boiler failure, and their primary 6 and 7 came to our school for several months. They started, finished and had a different break times from us. WTF is that all about? I had mates in those classes, and I never seen them at school.

Bloody bizarre.

They’re not very good at it then

And? The attempt is bad enough. Incompetent bigots are still bigots

A key teaching of the abrahamic religions is that adherents to a particular creed are “better”

Its disgusting to me that my tax money is given to religious bigots to indoctrinate children IMO its simply child abuse to indoctrinate children in this way.

When was the last time you went into a church school? In fact, when was the last time you went into any school? Unless you’ve got some sort of actual knowledge of what schools are teaching kids about religion, you sound a bit nutty saying this kind of stuff.

From the above, an issue is whether or not the school discriminates on faith grounds for entry purposes. Leaving aside what is taught, children being taught in mono-cultural classrooms which do not reflect the diversity of the wider community is clearly not ideal whatever steps are taken by teachers to deal with diversity issues.

The RC sixth form college across the road from us clearly doesn’t discriminate, given the obvious ethnic diversity of the students. But it appears this is not the case for all RC schools in NI.

ETA and even if there isn’t actual entry discrimination, if kids from different communities are sent to different schools so there is de facto segregated education, that is an issue also.

What other purpose is there to faith schools? People do not notice this stuff because its normalised. that does not mean it does not exist.

Its disgusting to me that my tax money is given to religious bigots to indoctrinate children IMO its simply child abuse to indoctrinate children in this way.

I don’t think that your average RE teacher fits the description of a bigot uncle Jezza.

They’re not Osama Bin Laden

In most cases, they aren’t even specifically RE teachers. They just teach in a catholic school, say, so maybe they’re a maths teacher who does a thing about gods* once a week

* You’ll note I used the plural as if my daughters school is anything to go by, they spend as much time learning about other religions as their own.This has included visits to the local mosques and synagogues where they mix with kids their own age of other faiths and learn about their beliefs, such as they are.

That doesn’t really sound very much like indoctrination, does it?

Its hardly the Hitler Youth

What other purpose is there to faith schools?

they still have to teach the national curriculum, and parents can opt their kids out of some or all of RE. Kids don’t have to take an exam and they can opt out themselves at 18. Sex and relationship education is compulsory for all children from 11 yrs, which includes reproduction, sexual health and identity. It’s also part of the science curriculum, and faith schools have to teach it. Yes they can slant it to their particular faith, but TBH, I’ve seen the same thing happen at schools where it’s nominally non denominational, but the head has a practicing faith (I was head-governor at such a school)…

It’s not the best ever indoctrination system if parents can opt out…

Binners

here you have to be a believer to teach in the schools and I assure you bigotry is rife. A key tenent of the abrahamic religions is that those that do not follow the creed are lessor people. thats bigotry

Its just its normalised so people do not see it.

religion is a divisive and harmful thing. Using my money to support religion is abhorrent to me.

here you have to be a believer to teach in the schools and I assure you bigotry is rife.

No offence intended here btw, but you have no kids and haven’t worked in education, what are you basing this on?.

I see lots of references to Catholic/Protestant sectarianism in Scotalnd. Is this encountered anywhere in Scotland beyond Glasgow or the wider central belt? I’ve lived in Scotland most of my life (since Primary school) and I’ve never really been aware of it anywhere other than Glasgow (I stress I’m not implying this is evidence it doesn’t happen!).

and I assure you bigotry is rife.

…And you know this because?

No offence intended here btw, but you have no kids and haven’t worked in education, what are you basing this on?.

It seems to be mainly old Dave Allen shows 😉

mini 750 goes to 2 schools . A non-dom and a catholic. And apart from the catholic school having a statue of a saint at the front door and a picture of the pope on the wall, I can’t tell the difference.
FWIW I am not catholic and mrs 750 is a vary lapsed catholic.

Neither have any classes on bonfire building

@Mat As I’ve never lived anywhere else, I’m not sure but I don’t think it’s as prevalent. Til you get to the islands that is, they’re even bloody weirder!. 🙂

mini 750 goes to 2 schools . A non-dom and a catholic. And apart from the catholic school having a statue of a saint at the front door and a picture of the pope on the wall, I can’t tell the difference.

Yep. Daughter number one goes to the Catholic high school, daughter number 2 to the non-dom one next door (their respective choices).

The schools and the teaching appear to be totally indistinguishable from one another. Neither is a hotbed of religious zealotry

A key tenent of the abrahamic religions is that those that do not follow the creed are lessor people

You just made that up. 😆

The RC sixth form college across the road from us clearly doesn’t discriminate, given the obvious ethnic diversity of the students.

The RC church is expanding fastest in Africa

A key tenent of the abrahamic religions is that those that do not follow the creed are lessor people. thats bigotry

I didn’t know Quakers were such awful people

You just made that up

He’ll have you for heresy, it’s a key part of the Atheist faith

And you know this because?

Bigotry is a key part of abrahamic religions. Someone who does not follow that creed is a lessor person. Thats bigotry

Mat – its mainly Glasgow area because thats where the ulster cotholics were transplanted to. It appears a bit in Edinburgh but to a much lessor extent

When was the last time you went into a church school? In fact, when was the last time you went into any school? Unless you’ve got some sort of actual knowledge of what schools are teaching kids about religion, you sound a bit nutty saying this kind of stuff.

Sadly this

I’m sorry tj, but my experience, and those of other posters here, suggests your views don’t reflect the modern reality of these schools.

If they were dependent on their success at indoctrination, they’d all have closed years ago, and if indoctrination was their aim, they wouldn’t be oversubscribed.

Not denying the appalling things done in the name of religions over the centuries, and in their schools in the past, but attending religious backed schools would appear to have made my kids more broadminded and tolerant than you appear to be (on this subject)

Bigotry is a key part of abrahamic religions.

I’m sorry uncle Jezza – I’m no more a believer in Sky Fairies than you are – but that statement is just total and complete bollocks

Mat
Full Member
I see lots of references to Catholic/Protestant sectarianism in Scotalnd. Is this encountered anywhere in Scotland beyond Glasgow or the wider central belt? I’ve lived in Scotland most of my life (since Primary school) and I’ve never really been aware of it anywhere other than Glasgow (I stress I’m not implying this is evidence it doesn’t happen!).

Bigotry in Scotland is a bit of a misnomer. It’s more tribalism between Scots and Irish that’s the issue. The catholicism part of that is really just more of an indentifier of the Irish diaspora.

Many of you are missing my point. abrahamic religions are bigoted in nature. the view that a non believer is a lessor person. Religious schools reinforce this view.

I loathe the abrhamic religions because of the huge harm they do. Religious schools normalise and accept this bigotry

too many of you have stockholm syndrome over this and do not realise that your tax money is being used to reinforce religious bigotry.

I’m sorry uncle Jezza – I’m no more a believer in Sky Fairies than you are – but that statement is just total and complete bollocks

Its a key tenent of abrahamic religions that a non believer is a lessor person. thats bigotry

Are you really attempting to state that its not a key part of the religion? go read some bible. Its full of it.

Not once did I get taught other people are lesser. Mibbe that was the class after I made choice freely, aged 12 that the church wasn’t for me. 😆

The schools and the teaching appear to be totally indistinguishable from one another.

I don’t know about religion, if you could put up with the RE, we just got a better standard of education than the godless heathens up the road. I would imagine thats the case for 99.999% of the people sending their kids to ‘faith’ schools.

You know that doesn’t really add up dont you?