I meant TJ
I just dont feel it should be a blanket free service.
As I dont see it as the role of the NHS.
They stick to fixing people, we use their services.
If I dont understand what the doctor is saying then I arrange a translator, if I cant afford one, or dont have a relative/friend who can help, then I ask for help. Then the NHS can provide one.

Certainly not a race issue.
Same with a Taxi, I have a broken leg and need to get to hospital, I cant get a friend to take me and cant afford a taxi, should the NHS provide that service?

I dont think it should be a free service in all cases.

But its just a view point

Yes, sorry. I was just pre-empting what I anticipated would follow. I didn’t mean to get into a big “you’re a racist” thing, and clearly didn’t choose my words very well.

I don’t think people are usually intentionally racist, but I feel quite close to translation services, see the benefit they provide to the NHS (and wider society), and get a bit riled when I feel they’re being dismissed.

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bump

Ok a few simple points

1) Just because it is TJ doesn’t mean he is wrong.
2) I do however dislike the labelling of posters and posts as Rascist or Bullying because they are allegations which are both damaging and impossible to effectively refute.
3) Having said which – I definitely inferred a whiff of probably unconscious racism in McBoo’s first post when I saw it – my interpretation – may be wrong – I’m a Guardianista after all.

4) Lastly – the important one. As a doc working in the NHS (and not needing translation services often) I have a duty to do the best I can to diagnose and treat patients correctly. Sometimes I need a stethoscope to listen to their heart, sometimes I need a translator to listen to their story. Take either away and I cannot do the job properly, and will miss diagnoses and waste money and time. Pragmatically it makes sense to have access to free-to-patient translation services

I like the pragmatic approach.
but the question is should the NHS pay for the external services of a minority of people who cant speak the language of the doctor.

Maybe its a race issue, or a nationalist point of view, but its a lot of money being spent on a service.

Sancho – its integral and important then communication is as good as possible

Sancho as the bloke who will get sued if I get it wrong… Yes…

And having used translation services a lot more when I worked in Australia, I know we are not the only country who sees this as important.

TJ – totally agree

Im not disagreeing with the need for translation, but question whether the onus should be on the individual to pay/provide when in a country that you dont speak the language.

If I dont understand what the doctor is saying then I arrange a translator, if I cant afford one, or dont have a relative/friend who can help, then I ask for help

I beleive the total cost to the public secctor of translation servces is around £8BILLION 9maybe someone slse has mentioned it, but I haven’t read the whil thread). Anyway, and specifically with regard to the NHS, shouldn’t that be the reponsibility of the service user? if I go abroad, I take health insurance to cover my costs in the event of an unexpected trip to hospital, and I expect translation to eb a cost met by the insurance co. If we’re talking about someone who lives here, then isn’t he onus on them to meet the simple expecattion of making themselves understood, not the other way round?

Also, FWIW

1) Just because it is TJ doesn’t mean he is wrong.

No, but it’s a good bet that he is.

Sancho – Member

Im not disagreeing with the need for translation, but question whether the onus should be on the individual to pay/provide when in a country that you dont speak the language.

No – because its discriminatory! Its meaning those who are non native english speakers are getting a lessor service

Big but slimmer bloke – where did you get that figure from – it looks totally absurd so I’d love to see some real data to back it up

Sancho – one of the principles of the NHS is that it is free at the point of use.

The NHS is about providing health care, if in order to do that you need to communicate, then the NHS pays.

The way to save money/solve the problem is to get people learning English, and this is the job of the council and education department.

TJ just had a thought is the NHS racist in trying to get certain Ethnic minorities to change their diet or change their tobacco habits? In fact I can think of many NHS health intiatives that are aimed at Ethnic minorities which change their culture etc etc

Big but slimmer bloke – where did you get that figure from – it looks totally absurd so I’d love to see some real data to back it up

I’ll try, but it came from an awareness course that I attended in how to deal with non-English speaking patients, and how to access the interpretation services.
Always useful for an IT Manager who doesn’t actually deal with patients

Getting back to the topic:

If certain things like sex-change operations (according to The Daily Liar Mail) are to be condemned because they are not an acute need then IVF should also go the same way. There are far too many people on the planet as it is. If someone is so desperate for a child via IVF they should stump up the money themselves.

I’d reallocate money to preventative medicine.

Oh and get rid of that stupid water scam known as homeopathy, unless they can produce double-blind trials showing it works. Or at least give them something labelled as ‘arnica 30C’ which was filled up at the kitchen sink!

My wife has used the translation services on occasion and they’ve been very useful. She does speak reasonable english generally but medical situations can be both complex and highly specialised so I think it’s unfair to equate the need for translators to someone being unable to speak the language. As a UK taxpayer I’d say she deserves the same standard of care as the rest of us and commend the NHS for making great effort in these areas.

TJ
Fair point and yes its free at the point of service.

But does it also cover foreign nationals.
I remember a report about the hospital nearest to Heathrow charging foreign nationals for treatment as there was a problem with I cant remember the correct term, something like sickness tourists.

I dont want to drift too far off track, but is there a limit to the service?

If people are not entitled to free NHS treatment then there is a mechanism to charge. That includes such people as those who have not paid NI, non UK / EC nationals

You can get homeopathy on the NHS?

mcboo – Member

You can get homeopathy on the NHS?

In some areas yes – and yo know what – its actually cost effective 😯 – yes I know its pure bullshine but the money it costs is tiny and it stops a lot of repeat referrals as the placebo effect is so effective

Is it basically up to the hospital to decide what services are available and how to implement the charging mechanisms?

no

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-562980/Foreigners-asked-produce-cash-hospital-beds-crackdown-health-tourists.html

here is an article on the health tourists.
I know its the Daily Mail and Im taking it at face value, but does it suggest the the Trusts decide how to apply charges etc, not a common policy on charging etc.

I’ve deliberately avoided this thread. Could someone summarise the achingly predictable, entrenched opinions of the usual suspects main protagonists please? fank you muchly

Sancho – sorry – I meant the thing most recently discussed in the thread… homeopathy.

Trusts application of charges to non eu patients is uneven.

In some areas yes – and yo know what – its actually cost effective – yes I know its pure bullshine but the money it costs is tiny and it stops a lot of repeat referrals as the placebo effect is so effective

Then my last bit stands. Fill it from the tap when the patient isn’t looking and stick a label on it. None of this hideously expensive hitting with a leather strap rubbish! Save a little bit more! They can’t exactly use spectroscopy to find the ‘active’ ingredient if there isn’t any!

(someone might have already said this, I couldn’t be bothered to wade through all the absolute crap)

It takes time to learn a foreign language to even a basic conversational standard, but to discuss medical treatment you need a grasp far beyond that.

I speak reasonable german but I haven’t a clue what the german for “You’ve broken your hip- if the next bit goes right you’ll walk normally again, if it doesn’t you won’t, so listen carefully- we’re going to perform keyhole surgery tomorrow and fit a load of bolts, then sew you back up and give you a course of painkillers which trust me you do not want to get the dosage wrong for, and some critical physio which you will have to do carefully, diligently and correctly or your leg will explode, and some information on exactly what you can and can’t do with that leg for the next 3 months, so that you don’t cripple yourself. Please sign here to say you understand the procedure and you give your consent. PS this button here gives you morphine directly into your bloodstream, don’t **** that up”.

Pretending translators are only for people who don’t speak english at all or can’t be bothered to learn is either dishonest or plain ignorant. Frankly, from what I saw when I was inside, a lot of native english speakers struggled to understand what they were being told- it’s sometimes complex, and alien, and you’re hearing about it at a time when you’re stressed to the max and possibly in pain to boot. That’s just exactly when you want to be having trouble understanding.

Does seem to me that in circumstances where charges are being levied, it’s reasonable to include translation fees as part of that. No idea if this happens or not.

Northwind – said exactly that on page 1 🙂

Used to be a voluntary TEFL teacher for non-english speaking women who were pregnant and trying to learn to speak English so that they could understand enough for when they go into hospital. But as you say, it takes a while to learn a new language fluently.

Nah, you used way less words than I did. 😳

Real quick one..

When i was going back to hospital a couple of weeks after my 3 week stay, i was told this.. We can organise an ambulance taxi if you are stuck for a lift to your appointment, but we only ask you to do this if you cannot get here otherwise.

I was in a spine brace then, and on crutches, so i couldn’t get the bus, couldn’t get the train, and could only get a lift. Luckily i have relatives that were able to take me.

A taxi service is offered as part of the treatment to those who cannot get to the hospital to continue with their care. Obviously the ambulance buses are preferred which pick you up from your home.

Anything that prevents access to an interpreter just makes the clinicians job harder.
Who ever thinks that is a good idea really hasn’t thought it through.
(We don’t want this thread dropping off the front page after only 4 pages do we?)