Please just reflect on your actions and on why many of us believe this is skirting the edges if not going over the reasonable way you need to ride to enjoy our mountains.

Read the access guidance.

I don’t like to be judgy, and video can be difficult to assess, but I have ridden that trail and personally think you were going a bit fast.

The walkers were clearly alarmed by your riding so whether or not you thought it was ok as you were able to stop in time… You were at best discourteous.

In your own words

We did infact have a friendly chat and apologised to the walkers for scaring them.

So you accept with clear hindsight you both needed to apologise and that you scared them.

I’ve just got round to watching the video. I was expecting some high speed drama not the sort of instance I expect every single one of us has done at some point or other. Yes it’s not ideal to startle walkers and for sure I personally practice polite cycling (nice phrase that), but just occasionally you make a slight judgement error and go a bit fast in the thrill of the moment.
I’m sure Ben will go round this corner at super slow speeds from now on with all this damning judgement rattling round his head.

Just watched it. That didn’t look like a controlled stop to me. More slamming on in order to stop in time. Very hard to judge on a video though.

Top thread.

Especially the daily mail Brexit sovereign troll, bravo!.

🤣😂

Not exactly in control if you’re nearly doing an endo to stop and having a chat with them afterwards does not make it ok that’s just being polite and admitting your error.

I expect every single one of us has done at some point or other

You expect wrong I’ve never had to stop like that, I’d expect more from a guide who has apparently descended millions of meters.

The stop was clearly on the ragged edge of control, legs flailing and a front wheel skid / stoppie. Bit daft to claim otherwise.
It’s hardly the end of the world, but certainly towards the dickish end of the spectrum on that particular trail, what with it being at one end of hugely popular hiking route.

What I don’t understand is why on earth Mctrailrider would leave it in the video for the whole internet to see? Please MCT if you happen to read this thread, pull the video, edit it out and then put it back up.
Leaving that in section currently serves no useful purpose other than ammo for those who hate bikes and would love to see us disappear from shared trails. Make no mistake, there are those who really hate bikes and will use stuff like that to illustrate how dangerous they are.

Or leave it there to be honest and provoke this sort of debate in the wider community.

Haters are gonna hate, but the rest of us lean from these discussions.

Or leave it there to be honest and provoke this sort of debate in the wider community.

+1

Good thread despite the inevitable bickering and smartarsery.

serves no useful purpose other than ammo for those who hate bikes and would love to see us disappear from shared trails. Make no mistake, there are those who really hate bikes and will use stuff like that to illustrate how dangerous they are.

you know, in all the years I’ve been doing outdoor sports (about 30 years now, bloody hell!), climbing, bit of kayak, mostly mountain biking, there’s always been a section of the population of whatever particular sport it is, who are determined that we are just on the precipice of existential threat, just one more incident and that’s it, banned forever from all the trails/rocks/ rivers  Well, It hasn’t happened yet, and in all likelihood will never happen, it’s probably OK to chill a bit…

In my time I’ve had run ins with walkers and dog owners, watched horse riders clash with runners, walkers, dog owners, watched two ramblers almost come to blows, watched a cyclist unwittingly knock over a child and cause a full on punch up, and so on and so on and so on. It probably happens day in day out up and down the country every day.  It’s just folk dealing with other folk. There are plenty of us on the island, and occasionally we’ll probably get in each other’s way

It might be that for a while afterwards that walker might have thought ill of those particular mountain bikers, it might be that he’s forgotten all about it. it might be that he’s grateful every one was alright and every body was polite and got on with their day. Who knows, and frankly, who cares. The actions of one group of riders do not reflect on the actions of anyone else, and in general; people don’t think that because they’ve had an incident with “a” mountain biker they are going to hate every mountain biker they see from now on. They just don’t. It’s about time we all stopped thinking like that. And TBH the ones that do think like that are idiots, that everyone recognises are idiots, and pays them no attention. (see Mike Vanderman et al)

It’s very easy to point and criticise from the sidelines. Just not particularly helpful, or insightful.

Not having ridden it and video being hard to judge I’d still say it doesn’t look that dramatic. I’ve ridden in the Alps with him and he looked very in control in the video. Doing an endo to stop is pretty normal for him I’ve watched him do it round countless switchbacks. I’ve nearly collided with walkers on corners or they’ve nearly collided with me, it’s shared access so this will happen on occasion. His trips are great by the way if you want to travel through the Alps.

Bang on nickc.

I’m not an active user here – …. We’ll be going round in circles from now on.

He sussed this place out pretty quick.

While incidents between different trail users do happen due to unforeseen circumstances that’s not what’s happened here.

If it had been at a trail centre then I’d have agreed with you. He’s a professional guide, with clients, on a (shared) trail he knows, with a blind corner he knows about. It’s his responsibility to slow down (and inform his clients) such that no incident is likely. Things being “OK” simply doesn’t cut it.

Why give the idiots ammunition when with a bit of sense (I’d say common sense but that would be a misuse of “common”) it could have been avoided?

for me, as someone that totally loves the freedom of biking in scotland offers, this video made me wince a bit. like everyone that bikes up here, I’ve had anti-bike comments from walkers and i suppose ultimately this video gives them fuel for their ‘us and them’ argument. the runners comments and the hikers near miss are both bound to happen the more you explore.

i suppose the common sense part is that i always try to avoid busy walker paths (or ride then early or late in the day) to minimise rush hour traffic.

i really enjoy bens videos and i suppose another factor is riding a proper trail monster of a bike following the guy that own the company makes them, will make it very hard to just roll along the trail. i always imagine myself dong the same on my rigid bike and the assumed difference speed between biking and walking isn’t nearly as much of an issue.

I’ve nearly collided with walkers on corners or they’ve nearly collided with me, it’s shared access so this will happen on occasion.

not if you are riding withing the scottish access code.

not if you are riding withing the scottish access code.

Or indeed walking, we each of us have a responsibility to act reasonably to each other, as riders should be alert for walkers, the opposite is also true. Mountain Bikers have every right to use shared paths and walkers should expect to meet them. But as I said, this is just one incident (it just happens to have been filmed) pointing out what you think folk should have done differently is mostly irrelevant.

Well luckily for him most of his trips are the Alps so he can avoid the midges, miserable locals, awful food and stumpy mountains.

nickc – unfortunatly that is not so. there is a hierarchy and walkers have right of way.

Awful food? I hope that is a joke…great variety of food here when you look beyond a deep fat fryer…

tj, I didn’t say anything about hierarchy, I just pointed out that walkers should expect to meet mountain bikers. Bikers have been part of the outdoor scene for 30+ years I mean, you can’t think that because walkers have greater rights they shouldn’t be alert to what they might meet on the trail?

Yes – but they shouldn’t have to expect to be dodging them on blind corners.

pointing out what you think folk should have done differently is mostly irrelevant.

Again you are missing the point. It’s entirely relevant as it highlights behaviour that we shouldn’t be doing. It’s called learning from others’ mistakes.

No, incorrect. That’s exactly what they should be thinking they may have to do. That’s the point of “being alert”

Just as mountain bikers should be thinking “hmm, blind corner, better take it steady” walkers should be thinking “hmm, blind corner, what’ll I do if some mountain bikers come barrelling through”  Everybody has the responsibility to pay attention to everyone else.

I doubt volenti non fit injuria applies, but it’s the same principle.

If it had been another bike coming the other way, could he have stopped before hitting it?

So you agree he was going too fast for that part of the trail? At least that’s progress.

pointing out what you think folk should have done differently is mostly irrelevant.

Is it mostly irrelevant to point out that only one set of folk could have reasonably done something different?

walkers should be thinking “hmm, blind corner, what’ll I do if some mountain bikers come barrelling through”

Is there some crafty way of walking through a blind section of singletrack trail whilst keeping out of the way of things you can’t see that are approaching at maybe 20mph? What should we do differently when walking? Should we buy periscopes for walking past hedges, should we stand off the trail waiting for possible barreling bike riders until it gets dark and we can see whether headlights are approaching or not, or should we just turn for home when we spot a blind bend ahead?

Or should people not approach blind bends at speed?

I doubt volenti non fit injuria applies, but it’s the same principle.

It’s really not. It’s just people walking in the hills.

Yep awful food is a bit unfair. I’ve had some incredible meals in Scotland from scallops straight out the sea to freshly slaughtered lamb on Mull. I’ll stand by the rest.

tbf the locals probably just thought you were a bit of a ****

Greybeard

Subscriber

If it had been another bike coming the other way, could he have stopped before hitting it?

well yes, as that bike would’ve been going far slower and would have stopped right away

4. If I thought I was in the wrong – I would be embarrassed and apologise. Did those walkers get startled – no doubt – but if you have honestly never startled a walker while out riding, then you obviously don’t ride shared trails as much as I do. I came to a complete stop in time – I didn’t have to evade the walkers… just braked and stopped in time.

Not what you would call a controlled stop though was it? Absolutely maximum braking to the point you nearly binned it and bloody close to the walkers.

Don’t get me wrong – we all make mistakes, and I’ve done the exact same thing before. I don’t understand though why you don’t believe yourself to be in the wrong. I certainly did after I’d done it. If the walkers had been a step or two further forward..?

To be fair, there’s more context to that quote above. Ben’s original post said:

1. We did infact have a friendly chat and apologised to the walkers for scaring them.
4. If I thought I was in the wrong – I would be embarrassed and apologise. Did those walkers get startled – no doubt

Ergo, “I scared them and I thought I was in the wrong.” Seems we all mostly agree, then 🙂

The arguments for the defence seem to take two forms:
1. no collision therefore no problem
2. they’re responsible because they were there

The parallels with shitty sociopathic drivers are pretty remarkable.

At least that’s progress.

yep, a bit of passive aggressive will help.

I’ve no opinion either way, I wasn’t there. I see he pulls an endo, which is presumably why a lot of you think he might have been going too fast, but he may have done it on purpose for style points. I’ve come round a 90 deg bend on a pack-horse trails at literally no miles and hour and startled a horse rider, so there’s no right and wrong to these events to take away “a lesson” .  that’s the point to “Be Alert” literally anything could happen.

A few years ago, on this site, a mate of mine threw up a picture of him doing some urban stuff, and in one picture there was a ped walking up the flight of stairs that he was jumping down, and he was flamed on here for riding inconsiderately, despite coming on the thread to explain what actually happened. It went on for pages and pages. I don’t suppose for a minute some folk won’t just take the opportunity to point out perceived errors made by others (as they themselves are perfect, Obvs), and will only ever see an event framed an in a particular way.

Just saw this. Yes, irresponsible.

Simply not hitting a walker is not good enough. Near misses are antisocial, and upsetting. As we all know when the tables are turned on the road. They slash safety margins. If you can only just stop given perfect conditions and a fully working brake, the margin for error is much smaller. A cyclist can’t demand nice safe passes on the road and then go out and do stuff like this on the trails. The two behaviours aren’t compatible.

Then there’s the PR side of it. We already have a huge image problem on and off road, so we need to try and offset that, not making it worse. Sometimes that means dialling down the fun – sorry, but that’s how it is. Exactly as boy racers have to dial down their own personal thrill seeking on the public roads.

There’s a top class downhill near me that I am pretty sure I could KOM on if I went all-out. But I don’t, because it’s a popular walking trail with blind bends. So I just take it easy and deal with the crushing disappointment. Mind you, the fact I’m near the top must mean everyone else is also backing off…

That’s not to say I haven’t gone too fast in the past on that trail. I’ve scared people, and I learned from it.

he may have done it on purpose for style points.

LOL

A line which would be delivered perfectly by Michael Palin playing a slippery shopkeeper.

I assume you’re just trolling?

nickc

…there’s always been a section of the population of whatever particular sport it is, who are determined that we are just on the precipice of existential threat, just one more incident and that’s it, banned forever…

It has happened.

I used to ride my motorbike on trails, then along came the MX heroes on their noisy 2-strokes wheelying and chucking up rooster tails and generally buggering up the trails. Can’t ride my motorbike on those trails anymore.

Basically piss off enough people and you lose.

TJ has got it right, obey the access code and protect our rights.

Trailpark style riding belongs in trail parks, not on public paths.

no harm done, probably should have slowed a bit for the corner, but meh. slight oversight, i don’t think we should castigate them, they’ll know themselves.

swavis

Subscriber
Too fast and always expect the unexpected. It is after all primarily a walkers trail.

It’s primarily a shared trail.

they’ll know themselves

Apparently not, though.

It’s primarily a shared trail.

Yeah, so it’s up to anyone bringing the speed and the danger to keep it in check.

It’s 1 incident in how many hours of mctrail rider videos?

So I’d suggest there’s a bit of an over reaction going on here.

The fact they haven’t edited it out, is to their credit.

TJ has got it right, obey the access code and protect our rights.

This is true, but also highlights the problem with open access. It’s great if your riding is basically “rambling on a bicycle” and thats ok for those who enjoy that kind of thing. But for many mtb’ing is an adrenaline sport/pastime, or at least partly. There will always be those who push things and conflict is inevitable, an access code is something that can be used against all mtbing. IMHO having some places that people can walk without having to worry about being clattered by a Mtb is a good thing. Maybe have routes designated, primarily walking but cyclists have access and primarily cycling that walkers have access to. Horse riders can sort there own thing out.