My idea of a perfect Enduro bike

I would bloody love one of the new Carbon Enduros, just in case anyone’s giving them away.

Or the carbon Spicy. I’m not too fussy.

Boutique bikes with half arsed R&D don’t seem like good VFM to me. Messing around with crappy leverage rates just to get a new marketing angle

With due respect, I trust the design engineers more than I will ever trust some dude on the internetz. Noel Buckley in particular has most probably forgotten more about engineering than we’ll ever know. I’d back him against any spesh engineer.
My crappy leverage rate santa cruz is considerably better for me than any spesh bike has ever been, probably ever will be. I’d also class Doerfling, Lopes, Blenky, Minaar and Peaty as pretty solid riders 😀

The worst bike I’ve owned was a Specialized 08 Sx Trail….no matter what I did the shock setup always felt weird.

However I do like the look of the carbon enduro. But I’d need to ride one as I still have not ridden a carbon bike I liked.

With due respect, I trust the design engineers more than I will ever trust some dude on the internetz. Noel Buckley in particular has most probably forgotten more about engineering than we’ll ever know. I’d back him against any spesh engineer.
My crappy leverage rate santa cruz is considerably better for me than any spesh bike has ever been, probably ever will be. I’d also class Doerfling, Lopes, Blenky, Minaar and Peaty as pretty solid riders

Come to Whistler BP around Crankworks and check out Specialized R&D shredding the trails on their and the competitors bikes. These guys are team riders trying to replay info to the “designers”, they are the engineers… That is the difference.

If you want to talk leverage rates, a rise/falling/rise rate of most VPP’s is the last thing a suspension designer not influenced by marketing would come up with. In fact Santa Cruz have spent the last 5 years trying to engineer out the rate change.

Or buy my SS1 frame. Shameless plug, sorry.

Short rear end 16.75inches, Slack HA 66.5 without angleset or slacker dropouts (65.5 with slacker dropouts or upto 64 with an angleset), low bb 13.5 inches, comes with a Bos Stoy, takes a front mech and has routing for a dropper post. My current build is around 32.5 lbs.

Now you can all start slagging off Intenses. Again.

In fact Santa Cruz have spent the last 5 years trying to engineer out the rate change.

Can you explain why my SC feels so much nicer (again, to me) than any FSR bike ever has? And I include properly set up and recent Enduros in that. In fact the only MTB I’ve ever ridden and seriously disliked was a Camber. Couldn’t wait to get off the thing.
I’m not a suspension guru and wouldn’t claim to be. Graphs and numbers are very much secondary as they don’t mean a lot to me.
I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the vast majority of MTB designers are enthusiasts, hence working in the industry.

Get yourself a Nicolai AM?

Start with std geo and customise / tweak the HA & anything else to your tastes. Assuming you know exactly what you need / want.

Great bikes & great build. Not cheap but 5 year no quibble transferrable warranty speaks volumes

Have you looked at the Nicolai Ion 16?

Tech Sheet

65degree headangle in the low setting with a low BB. Tapered headtube as standard but you can have 1.5 for £130 upcharge.

Alternatively the AM with custom front triangle.

Banshee Rune now had bearings instead of bushings, and 65 degree HA, with a decent TT length. Has a 18.5 seat tube,

http://bansheebikes.com/wp-content/uploads/Geo2013Rune2.jpg

Lapierre Spicy now available frame only too.

Get a hardtail if you want trail feedback – The idea of suspension is to absorb inpacts – or did I miss something in primary school 🙂

Can you explain why my SC feels so much nicer (again, to me) than any FSR bike ever has? And I include properly set up and recent Enduros in that. In fact the only MTB I’ve ever ridden and seriously disliked was a Camber. Couldn’t wait to get off the thing.
I’m not a suspension guru and wouldn’t claim to be. Graphs and numbers are very much secondary as they don’t mean a lot to me.
I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the vast majority of MTB designers are enthusiasts, hence working in the industry.

I guess you must like the ‘plush’ feeling mid stroke of earlier VPP? Somebody’s plush is another’s wallowing… However, from the Blur TR onwards the bikes feel quite different and far more responsive IMO. I know countless people who just can’t get consistant feel through the stroke on the earlier bikes, especially the Nomad, hence the Push link.

You would be amazed how many designers and industry folk can’t ride for sh*t.

As mentioned aboved, if you are serious about having a front end made, drop me a line at matt@18bikes.co.uk

Matt

My Last Herb FR with <65° HA with 160 forks is too slack for a fair few bits of trail but its definitely got me out of trouble more than once. 165mm rear travel with a 13.9″ BB (-15mm gives 13.4″, does it work like that?)definitely wouldn’t want much lower than that.

I bloody love the suspension on it too.

Was going to sell it this winter as for 90% of my riding its just too slack and its a bloomin heavy frame – 4.4kg inc shock. Was thinking about Nicolai Ion 16 personally.

This may sound a bit strange, but would it not be possible to stiffen a 1 1/8 steerer tube by inserting an internal tube to significantly thicken the walls?

Well or the bike industrie could have gone the correct way, and use almost full steerer. Next time you pop round a MX track have a look at the steerer size and tell me how many tappered or 1.5″ you see 😉

Count the single crown forks while you’re at it.

Well what’s wrong with triple crown? Surely if we’re talking about 160-180 mm of travel it makes sense to use triple crown fork?

Nowt wrong with it, though obviously it can have impacts on steering lock. Just pointing out that it doesn’t make much sense talking about steerers in isolation.

Juan, I have looked at a few photos and still have no idea what you’re talking about. What is a MX bike’s headset / steerer like?

Interesting thread this 🙂 and if I remember from my mx days the steerers are massive and straight !

I remeber at the roc when 1.5″ steerer were the new black that the marzo boze had a marzo MX fork side by side with the Shiver, and the MX hadn’t a steerer much bigger than the shiver. But that was backin the day though.

You can get all angle headsets to fit all sorts of headtubes:

http://www.workscomponents.co.uk/full-headsets—most-common-sizes-14-c.asp

I guess you must like the ‘plush’ feeling mid stroke of earlier VPP? Somebody’s plush is another’s wallowing… However, from the Blur TR onwards the bikes feel quite different and far more responsive IMO. I know countless people who just can’t get consistant feel through the stroke on the earlier bikes, especially the Nomad, hence the Push link.

Interesting. I had an Intense 5.5 which did feel wallowy, my VPP2 LTc feels a lot more propped up. and doesn’t sit down too much when I don’t want it too e.g berms etc
Some of this I’ve (maybe mistakenly) attributed to the shock and surmised that boost valve means “magic”. 😀
How much influence do you think shock technology has vs suspension design? A coil transformed my DW 5 spot, but an RP23 feels brilliant on the LTc.

Don’t get me started on signle crowns, if someone produced a decent 160mm-180mm dual crown in a similar weight category to my coil lyriks, I’d be all over them, even if they cost a bit and needed air prings or ti springs etc to keep the weight down. Integrated stems are the way to go.

Just researching my options at the moment, I think I might try a slackening my mega off more for the time being but I’d like to move to the Cotic at some point seeing as I have an undersized frame anyway. I’ll get in touch with the chap who mentioned the 44mm angleset and with the frame 18bikesmatt about a custom front triangle if Cotic won’t do one. This will probably be a project for next summer/Autumn though – I’m going to take my time with this build and I also need the money :mrgreen:.

I guess with my dislike of single crowns and my bike preferences is that I’m after a 140/160r-160f mm bike that weighs between 28-32lb’s, has the geometry of a downhill bike, a steep a full length seat tube and dual crowns to keep similar steering precision…..it’d be schawweeeeeeet. It’s a shame no company will indulge my desires and that there’s no real market for it. 👿 I’m not so bothered about coil shocks/forks for this this kind of bike, air would be fine and it’d keep the weight down and the geometry and stiffness would make for a really fun ride.

P.S The push link is for coil shocks really, there’s nothing wrong with the stock Nomad link if your running an airshock.

4.4kg inc shock. Was thinking about Nicolai Ion 16 personally.

Bar weight, I don’t see how that’s going to be much better. It’s slack as well! Slackness isn’t good for climbing but the bike I’ve got in my head isn’t for all dayers, it’s a play-bike/enduro bike that you can just about mash up to the top of your runs. An evolution on mini-downhill bikes (that I never thought were mini, light or any more fun than a full blown race rig).

Have a look at the Scott voltage fr as a frame only package in long (if you are under 6 foot) 7.5 lbs 140 to 180 travel. 1.5 head tube, 65 head angle std. 13.5 bb height. Adjustable chain stay length by 20mm. No front mech mounting, so Will only work single ring on front though. Mine set up fox 36 float (160/180) Dhx air shock 222mm giving 170 rear travel. Xtr 1x 10. Crossmax st wheels. All up wt 28/29 lbs, a rock solid and plush all mountain flyer, you can pedal all day

I really should know better than to comment on this as it’ll probably just turn into some sort of flame fest but I can’t really resist since the OP is usually spamming threads about 150/160mm bikes to say that anything other than a mega is a pointless indulgence and little more than flaunting your wealth.

You want a bike that’s slacker than a mega with triples that weighs between 28 – 32 lbs with a steep seat angle – stick some offset bushings on your mega, get some boxxer WC’s and slam them and build it with full XTR and some enve wheels. Sorted. It’ll ride like absolute sh*t but doubtless you’ll love it.

Sorry, but basically, if you need a 160mm bike that’s slacker than the mega then you need a skills course, not a new bike. Sorry but that is true.
It’s a fundamental mistake to assume that all that matters is the head angle and to focus on that. There are plenty bikes out there could fit your bill but you’re probably overlooking them based on one measurement, not how they ride. F’rinstance the new Meta SX, on paper doesn’t seem radically different to the mega, but in the real world feels considerably longer, lower, slacker……

The closest thing I can see to an off the shelf solution to the O.Ps problem would be the Morewood Kalula with Boxxer WC’s, an air can and a super bling build but, imo it would be of little use without a bike park and a chair lift regardless of weight. Even that probably won’t be slack enough to solve the OP’s problem anyway. Flame on.

muddyfunster – Member

The closest thing I can see to an off the shelf solution to the O.Ps problem would be the Morewood Kalula with Boxxer WC’s, an air can and a super bling build but, imo it would be of little use without a bike park and a chair lift regardless of weight.

I would love to see some of your less close solutions 😆 “Get a Sierra Sapphire and take 2 of the wheels off” maybe.

I’m not going to flame but I will say that’s a load of bollocks. Flaunting your wealth? Shit the bed.

wrecker

I’m not going to flame but I will say that’s a load of bollocks. Flaunting your wealth? Shit the bed. not my words – bwaarps. In summation at least.

Northwind

I would love to see some of your less close solutions

Slacker than a mega – check. Rated for triples – check. Mini Dh, play bike – check. Built up to 32lbs – just about check. Pointless – check.