Motorists. Red and Green. Learn the bloody difference.

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  • Motorists. Red and Green. Learn the bloody difference.
  • Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    A nice response to the Top Gear “red and green” video by everyone’s favourite whiney helmet cam warrior:

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgN5BhAs4I8[/video]

    (actually I have a lot of time for CycleGaz, I think he does a lot of good stuff, but I realise he isn’t everyone’s cup of tea)

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    I’m actually a fan, but not quite sure about his “they’re a cyclist” comments on this – he sounds a bit silly (even more so than normal).

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Yeah he makes the mistake of thinking that everyone is as invested in bike vs car conflicts as he is. In reality most folk are oblivious and he just appears a bit weird. 😀

    I do think he is a good guy though, just a little “earnest”.

    jonjones262
    Member

    the guy should be a traffic cop, he seems to want to be all high and mighty all the time….

    cynic-al
    Member

    Is the the young guy off the tv doc?

    Haterz in 5…4…3…

    EDIT BLIMEY BEATEN TO IT!!!!!

    ti_pin_man
    Member

    I see cars running amber/reds all the time and yes a few running reds. I know cyclists do the same. The reason is that we’re -and you might not believe me- the same species.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Though it is interesting to see lots of cars doing the sort of red light jumping cyclists are accused of, rather than just racing the light (I have also seen quite a bit of this – it seems to be on the rise). Worth noting the danger to pedestrians from a lot of these – far more of an issue than cyclists jumping lights generally are.

    cynic-al
    Member

    Indeed aracer:

    cyclists cycling badly = danger to themselves mostly

    drivers driving badly = danger to everyone else mostly

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    interesting to see lots of cars doing the sort of red light jumping cyclists are accused of

    Yep.

    It’s also interesting that a lot of them are approaching amber lights from some distance away and show absolutely no intention of stopping.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4TDEPP1R9Q[/video]

    tacopowell
    Member

    I’m see this all the time, problem is it’s increasingly more frequent, what pees me off the most is its not been oblivious it’s motorists taking a chance.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    so people like to think that people take chances and that some people tend to think that road & safety rules don’t apply to them.

    Feel free to replace people with cyclist, motorist, fisherman, horse rider, or what ever you want.

    Premier Icon AlexSimon
    Subscriber

    That one at 5:06 could have been pretty nasty with the pedestrians in the road.

    Yeah he makes the mistake of thinking that everyone is as invested in bike vs car conflicts as he is

    Definitely – he’s believed his own hype.

    Glad I’m not trying to ride the same streets he is though.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    I’m not particularly a hater, but he is a bawbag. 😆

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    What is also interesting is, despite the pretty clear safety concerns, attempts to introduce more red light cameras are often met with hostility and the usual “stealth tax on motorists” nonsense.

    devash
    Member

    This is definitely on the rise.

    I’ve nearly been killed a couple of times in the past 6 months walking to work and car drivers flying through red lights. One student from the university I work at was seriously injured crossing the road before Christmas when a souped up Audi flew through on red and took him out.

    Here in Leeds, at least 2 or 3 times out of 10 when a crossing light turns red you get at least one or two cars flying through. Years ago, it used to be the ‘amber chancers’ who were the problem, now its the ‘Red Dontgiveaf**ks’ you have to watch out for.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    I see cars running amber/reds all the time and yes a few running reds. I know cyclists do the same.

    Feel free to replace people with cyclist, motorist, fisherman, horse rider, or what ever you want.

    Exactly. I think that was the point of his video.

    For some reason Top Gear and many many many other commentators like to harp on about cyclists being red-light-jumping scofflaws – whilst casually ignoring the same law-breaking of motorists (which is ultimately far more dangerous to other people).

    Basically cyclists get picked on because we are an “out” group. The same behaviour by members of the “in” group is ignored.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    btw I think the dutch philosophy kinda applies here, if people aren’t following the rules, then the rules need changed.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    1 never had died on the moral high ground on your tomb stone
    2 never assume that because a light is red people are going to stop.
    3 see point 1

    GrahamS – Member
    What is also interesting is, despite the pretty clear safety concerns, attempts to introduce more red light cameras are often met with hostility and the usual “stealth tax on motorists” nonsense.

    Cameras catch people, policing and education stops people. The complete decline in police on the roads is shocking. Farming it out to cameras which are normally placed in revenue generating spots isn’t going to work.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    now its the ‘Red Dontgiveaf**ks’ you have to watch out for.

    yeah there’s some lights near work (that I don’t travel through anymore) that have bugger all delay between the cycles so anyone hitting the go pedal on red+amber has got a good chance of clipping the “only just red” cross traffic. Quite often waiting for green and there’d still be a car or two flying across, not a wide open good visibility junction either, scary.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    CycleGaz….

    🙄

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Mike I’ve no argument about lack of police on the road, I fully agree but

    Farming it out to cameras which are normally placed in revenue generating spots isn’t going to work.

    loses you credibility, “revenue generating spots” = people regularly taking the piss, those people are ripe for punishment and when they complain about it should be told STFU, instead we get a load of apologists saying “yeah it’s just speed/stealth/scamera tax”

    anono
    Member

    Could someone just do a “learn the difference” thingy addressed to Road Users – we can then move on and use the internet for more important things, like finding stuff to post to the gifs thread.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    For revenue generating Cumbria speed camera partnership used their resources to put vans on the bridge on the M6 despite (due to a FOI request) there being no serious accidents on that stretch of road where speed was a factor. There are miles of roads where enforcement of the rules would make a difference to safety. In fact if cameras worked at reducing speeding and accidents they would generate no revenue and be a cost to the community. They are designed to catch people not change their behaviour or make things safer

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Farming it out to cameras which are normally placed in revenue generating spots isn’t going to work.

    I agree that more traffic police would be good – but I’m not sure what the issue is with using cameras to try to enforce the law in places where it is regularly flouted (aka “revenue generating spots”).

    Is red light jumping going the same way as speeding?

    i.e. it’s an archaic rule that that everyone breaks, and it is perfectly alright because I’m a better-than-average driver with good reactions?

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    There’s a junction on my commute which I “amber-gamble” on every time (on my bike). It’s a good job I do this cos everytime there are up to 4 cars behind me that routinely jump the lights and would squash me if I stopped.

    🙁

    lemonysam
    Member

    Is red light jumping going the same way as speeding?

    I don’t think so, my casual observations of people doing it* are aware that they’re being irresponsible and adopt the stare straight ahead and not move a muscle approach to ignoring the outside world as they gun it past you whilst you’re on the crossing. I don’t think people have that same sense of embarrassment about speeding.

    *largely going up and down Scotswood road.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    largely going up and down Scotswood road.

    At times it was safer not to stop on the Scotswood road, especially if your off to the races.

    Fantombiker
    Member

    I ride in some quick road rides, and the quicker the ride the more the group is likely to go through red lights, and across roundabouts when a car is approaching from the right. Going really fast at high heart rate impairs your judgement…but anyway cyclists should also learn the difference and apply at all times

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    but anyway cyclists should also learn the difference and apply at all times

    this appears to be a response to a top gear video aimed at cyclists, so it would seem that bit has already been done by that lovely jeremy clarkson fella.

    BTW was that post your admission of guilt whilst simultaneously absolving yourself of responsibility at the same time? “the group” is more likely to run the light?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I ride in some quick road rides, and the quicker the ride the more the group is likely to go through red lights,

    On a charity ride recently 5 mins after the briefing about respecting other road users and the rules of the road we nearly got flattened for stopping at a red light at the junction with a main road.

    For the record down here in Tassie I have seen more RLJ on bikes than cars by a factor of at least 10 and we only have 1 RL camera.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    There’s a junction on my commute which I “amber-gamble” on every time (on my bike). It’s a good job I do

    Yeah nice example at 3:39 in the video where the car behind him actually toots him for not following the two cars in front when they go through a red light!

    largely going up and down Scotswood road.

    Aye I’m very careful using the pedestrian crossings there – I regularly see cars shoot straight through them on the green man/bike. Had a few close calls when I first started using it and I’ve actually had to pull someone back off the crossing to avoid them being hit!

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    For those getting confused, this thread is about car drivers jumping red lights, not cyclists speeding.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    Of course there is one foolproof way to make sure that cars stop at red lights and it is far more effective than fines:

    😆

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    Drivers to cyclists – ‘red and green, learn the difference’

    Anyone in a town or urban area* to drivers – ’30 – learn to count. It’s more than 15 or 20 but quite a bit less than 40 or 45′

    *Applies to many other places with speed limits, but the 30 zone ignorance is what bothers me most.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Fantombiker – Member
    but anyway cyclists should also learn the difference and apply at all times

    nope, they should change the rules.

    Premier Icon amedias
    Subscriber

    regarding the camera/revenue generating argument:

    If you’re (in a car) caught by a RL camera (or god forbid a real Police man!) for jumping a red light what is the penalty?

    Is it a fine *and* points or just a fine?

    If the penalty was automatic points and no fine then I guess it would be more likely to have the desired effect and would destroy the money making argument?

    ie: get caught doing it, get points, keep doing it and get too many points, not allowed to drive.

    Would that not be a better deterrent than fines and prove that it’s definitely a safety thing and not about making money?

    Or am I way off the mark?

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    ie: get caught doing it, get points, keep doing it and get too many points, not allowed to drive.

    that might work if you were banned for having too many points, getting 36 45 now (and counting) and still legally driving does kinda take the piss and devalue that argument somewhat.

    bigyinn
    Member

    I can see the sense in magistrates having the ability to override the system in certain exceptional cases. But if individuals continue to break the law then that luxury should be withdrawn without question as they clearly cant learn from their mistakes and are taking advantage of leniency.

    With regards to the number of RLJ’ing motorists in that video, Im stunned how blatantly they do it it in clear conditions with good visibility. Although cyclegaz doesn’t exactly help his cause by showing cyclists going through reds at the same time as the cars on a couple of occasions!

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    they clearly cant learn from their mistakes and are taking advantage of leniency.

    some would consider 12 points (4 “normal” offences afaik) adequate learning opportunity.

    cyclegaz doesn’t exactly help his cause by showing cyclists going through reds

    if he didn’t he’d be accused of bias, he can’t win. 🙂

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    cyclegaz doesn’t exactly help his cause by showing cyclists going through reds at the same time as the cars on a couple of occasions!

    His “cause” isn’t to portray cyclists as infallible angels.

    (He runs Silly Cyclists after all)

    He is just pointing out the enormous hypocrisy of the prevailing “scofflaw cyclists” opinion.

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