"Motability buys 20% of all new UK cars" - scandal or sod all?

I some times look at my neighbours latest VW sitting on the drive all shiny and paid for out of taxes. It’s easy to think “that would be nice”. But the reality is that I’m better off with 2 working legs and a tatty Peugoet Tepee Partner

So that’s one case cleared up. Not sure about the rest

Is it potentially a sign of an aging population and reduced car sales otherwise? The article is behind a paywall so I can't see exact figures but all the baby boomers are becoming pensioners and more of them live outside city centres and they're less willing to use public transport, so that might be an increase that's predictable, and if motability numbers have gone up 50% while total car sales have gone down 50%, them making up 20% of sales might not actually be that significant.

The perfect car sales figures would be that cars are only sold through motability for people who can't use alternative transport and people who are able bodied are using other ways to get about but I doubt that this is down to people switching to more sustainable transport methods.

It can be brutal when the person the car is allocated to dies. A colleague of mine had a severely disabled son and they had a motabilty vehicle which was their only car- he lived within five minutes walk of work and his wife was the main carer. When the son suddenly and unexpectedly died at age 10 he had the car removed within a week leaving them struggling to sort out an alternative when grieving for their son. He was very bitter about the experience. This was in the late 90’s so they may be more accommodating now.

I some times look at my neighbours latest VW sitting on the drive all shiny and paid for out of taxes. It’s easy to think “that would be nice”. But the reality is that I’m better off with 2 working legs and a tatty Peugoet Tepee Partner
So that’s one case cleared up. Not sure about the rest

Another case cleared up is my sister who has chronic asthma and cannot walk far due to 40 years of steroids meaning the ones in her feet are falling about and nobody can/wants to try fixing them. Have a 'free' car seems fairly small in the big scheme of things in how her life has gone.

It can be brutal when the person the car is allocated to dies. 

...they may be more accommodating now.

Nope - still the same.

Friend of ours partner passed away recently and it was taken back almost immediately, with the added bonus of a bill for a couple scuffed wheels.

No idea about the figures, but it's s a fairly high bar to get to the level of lack of mobility that a motability car is an option, even then it not an automatic thing you're given, you pay for it from your benefits.

It's very isolating and disempowering being disabled and not able to get places.

On the stats, which i can’t see, i wondered what it’s 20%

Is that 20% of new cars sold in the uk

Or 20% of new car registrations

Most new cars are leased, often from the original manufacturer. Maybe those aren’t sales

a guy i know recently got his new car on motability.

mid fifties, alcohol dependent, no fixed abode as he sofa surfs between his adult childrens houses and two on/off/on partners (domestic violence, police called regularly) regularly drinks and drives, and by that i mean bottle of vodka before 'breakfast', drama phone calls and then drives around till he is found.... weekly.  told the GP he's depressed, new car arrived about 3 weeks later.

probably the exception.

Is it potentially a sign of an aging population and reduced car sales otherwise?

Perhaps also it's because people have got better at being open and explaining their illnesses?

Or, devil's advocate, more people know the "tricks", or other valid reasons, to getting into a cheap/free car.

I don't know the answer, but it's another brick in the wall of the massive self-entitlement drivers have (and I'm including myself in that).

Some anecdata from my small circle:

My aunt had motability cars for a few years due to her terrible COPD that meant she couldn't walk far. The flipside was, her COPD meant she didn't live long enough to need many.

My uncle had polio as a child and was paralysed from the waist down, so had motability cars for most of his driving life.

There's a lady on our street who is a wheelchair user, she has one of those motability Berlingo looking things that you can drive your wheelchair up into the modified boot.

You don’t get given a car just cos you’re disabled, you get assessed every few years and get the (previously higher rate mobility) now PIP.

You then have a choice of trading in the benefit for a car. We made use of it to get an MPV to accommodate my sons wheelchair and walking frame. I’d happily give up a “free” car if it meant my son didn’t have cerebral palsy.

Why new cars rather than used?

I'm all for supporting disadvantaged people to overcome things (generally, not just cars), but not to elevate them to things that are luxuries for working non disabled people.

Haven't read the article due to paywall, and I'm certainly not delving into the Twitter thread. But on the face of it, "20% of sales/registrations" does sound like a remarkably high proportion. One of those made-up statistics to generate a headline?

Its sod all.

The number of new car registrations still hasn't recovered to pre-pandemic levels. It was around 2.3 million in 2019 and might get to 2m for 2024

the number of disabled people in the UK is increasing and motability is, and has been for years, the biggest lease operator in the UK.

People on disability benefits aren't being given "free cars", they are using their mobility allowance to lease a car through the scheme.

So the 20% figure is explained by mobility scheme demand staying level/increasing but overall car sales decreasing.

if its a scandal, then subsidised EV's through salary sacrifice is a bigger one...

MrsMC has mild cerebral palsy, can only drive automatics and needs a steering ball, but does not meet the criteria for a Motability car. That grates sometimes, when I see other people with less obvious disabilities with them, but "less obvious disabilities" is the key phrase.

That said, a friend is sales director for a dealership in the old Notts coalfield, and they are the busiest Motability dealership in the country.

"Why new cars rather than used?"

VAT free. Huge fleet buying power for discounts.  Probably more cost effective buying new cars of a known quantity than having to manage inspection and bidding for used cars in that quantity.

Is it an effective way of getting people who couldn't otherwise afford a car mobile? Yes.

Is the whole scheme justified? Possibly not. A relative has a mobility car which is used as her car. Yes, it provides benefit for her child who is disabled but as her daughter was living away from home at university most of the time  it was really a very cheap way of getting a family car.

There is no means testing. Another family I know where they have a car under the scheme for a child the family income is £150k plus.  Is it fair for lower income taxpayers to be subsidising a car for them?

On the other hand, not means testing presumably saves a considerable amount in admin costs.

Why new cars rather than used?

There's a potential need to chuck a lot of money at the car to adapt it - not much point doing to a car halfway through its useful life.

There's also the worry of being stranded. My nephew needs a big and heavy electric wheelchair that's not going in anything other than a specifically adapted car. If that breaks down he's fairly screwed. I know a new car isn't necessarily more reliable than an old one, but it's a consideration.

not to elevate them to things that are luxuries for working non disabled people.

Honestly, that's the sort of unthinking comment disabled people get all the time. As above, I imagine the vast majority of people needing motability cars would chuck the 'luxury' in a second not to need it. My nephew faces so many obstacles, so much discrimination, and has so many extra needs (meaning he has to spend so much more money) that many 'working* non-disabled people' that your perceived 'luxury' pales into insignificance.

*Who's to say motobility beneficiaries aren't working too?

The terms of a motability car are pretty clear.

It's only for the benefit of the person its provided for and nothing else. So of course if that person dies then it gets taken away, as there is no need for it anymore.

Of course you weren't using it for the benefit of yourself were you - because if you were then it breaks the motability lease and likely you were uninsured too.

Bloke down the road has his dad living next door with a brand new motability Honda. It only gets used when he does his dad's shopping or to take his dad out. He has to have his own separate car to do his own errands. As a result theres a taxpayer funded brand new Honda depreciating there that only does 10 miles a week.

I did ask him why his dad bothered to get one when he could just give his dad a lift in his own car, and well, its because he is eligible so why not. He plans to try and buy it from motability when his father passes.

VAT free. Huge fleet buying power for discounts.  Probably more cost effective buying new cars of a known quantity than having to manage inspection and bidding for used cars in that quantity.

There’s a potential need to chuck a lot of money at the car to adapt it – not much point doing to a car halfway through its useful life.

There’s also the worry of being stranded. My nephew needs a big and heavy electric wheelchair that’s not going in anything other than a specifically adapted car. If that breaks down he’s fairly screwed. I know a new car isn’t necessarily more reliable than an old one, but it’s a consideration.

Fair enough. What we're giving people is the procurement and use of a reliable car potentially adapted to their needs, which is all easier with new cars.

Honestly, that’s the sort of unthinking comment disabled people get all the time.

I think perhaps I should instead view it as we're using new cars to achieve this goal of helping people, because it's actually more cost effective than using used cars.

*Who’s to say motobility beneficiaries aren’t working too?

I was saying this as part of the general point. Whatever difficulty someone has in life, whether it be disability, bad luck, unable to work, or whatever else... taxpayer funded help shouldn't overcompensate for their misfortune such that they end up better off in some aspect than someone who doesn't have that difficulty.

@irc

On the other hand, not means testing presumably saves a considerable amount in admin costs.

Not sure that stacks up on motorbility. if somethings a relatively low value universal benefit (eg free TV licences for over 75s.  £170) maybe.  But its' now only for people on pension credit so clearly worth the admin cost there.

theres already an extensive application admin process for motorbililty and it's a benefit worth £10's of thousands.

The 'scandal' that gets me is blue badges. Now I'm in no way saying that no-one should have a blue badge, but As of March 31, 2023, there were 2.57 million Blue Badges in circulation in England, which is a 5.7% increase from the previous year. This means that 4.6% of the population in England had a Blue Badge.  1 in 20 people? is our population really in that bad health?

Theres very clearly a huge amount of misuse by family members and a lot of theft too (as much of a problem as theft of tools from vehicles in the last stats I saw (which were admittedly for one local area)

Whatever difficulty someone has in life, whether it be disability, bad luck, unable to work, or whatever else… taxpayer funded help shouldn’t overcompensate for their misfortune such that they end up better off in some aspect than someone who doesn’t have that difficulty.

The car is the least of the assistance disabled people need. MrsMC doesn't qualify for Motability but is on PIP. Her PIP payments and their predecessors have not covered the additional cost of having to buy an automatic and a decent quality steering ball, the additional fuel cost of running an automatic (not so bad now that they are now more economical, nor the cost of the other "extras" that doing stuff with only one fully working arm requires.

The ‘scandal’ that gets me is blue badges.

The criteria for a blue badge is also quite strict. I know people personally who struggle in their daily lives and would genuinely benefit, but have been refused. Though that's probably more down to how the criteria benefits certain conditions and not others.

1 in 20 people? is our population really in that bad health?

It's reported that more than 1 in 4 people in the UK have a chronic health condition (it's even higher in the US).

So, yes, our health is bad, and it's getting worse. The solutions to that are complex, and they've mostly been addressed with sticking plasters up until now.

if its a scandal, then subsidised EV’s through salary sacrifice is a bigger one…

That's probably fair enough. Top rate taxpayers at my work will get a very low BIK tax on leasing snazzy new EVs soon. I get that we want more EVs as a share of all cars but we don't want more cars in general...

1 in 20 people? is our population really in that bad health?

Wouldn't surprise me...

Was back in the UK last month and was shocked and saddened by the number of fat people, particularly women. Oddly though, almost all prioritised long finger nails and bizarre eyelashes over not being fat.

I can’t see exact figures but all the baby boomers are becoming pensioners and more of them live outside city centres and they’re less willing to use public transport.

What I think you mean is they’re less able to use public transport, because there’s shit-all public transport available outside urban areas. I can’t catch a bus to Bristol, I have to go to Bath and change there for Bristol, however there is at least the train. Once you get out into the many villages surrounding Chippenham, you might be lucky to have two buses a day, and times are not convenient for things like, for example, doctors or hospital appointments. Or people have to resort to a taxi, which is a very expensive option for people on pensions and disability benefits.

This particular subject is something I’m fairly familiar with, as my job with British Car Auctions involved me picking up and driving ex-fleet cars, a great many of them Motability vehicles. Most of them were adapted in some way or another, which means I had to work out very quickly how to drive an adapted vehicle, and virtually every one was different.
There were occasions when I had to pick up a vehicle from someone whose partner had literally just died, and that’s not a pleasant experience.
Once I had to pick up an adapted MPV from a dealer, it still had the protective plastic on the seats - the person it was intended for hadn’t even had chance to use it because their condition had worsened to the point they were permanently housebound.

I changed my job and started working for a company that refurbished the vehicles before they were sold, the ones in good condition were often bought by the dealership before they even came in for work, those sometimes just needed the adaptations removed and the car fully cleaned, others needed quite a lot of work due to the extensive modifications made for the original owner. We had one come in that had so many modifications made that I couldn’t even work out how to start it, let alone how the logistics driver had managed to drive the thing - the previous owner must have been very disabled to need so many modifications.
Then there were the cars that had been vandalised, sometimes I think because the owner had lost their disability benefits…

Also, not all disabilities are visible.

My car is an ex-Motability vehicle, it had suffered some damage down the side, so the owner had been given a replacement and mine repaired and sold on. It was 14 months old and had 3300 miles on the clock. The repair was pretty shoddy, I had to get it redone earlier this year, but it was worth the effort.

I think it’s a bit of both. Clearly there are many people who need mobility vehicles and no one should or could deny them one. On the flipside I know people who had one and gave it to their daughter as her car because it was a cheap car. The bit I don’t really understand is why they are only kept for 3 years. It’s not as if most of them do many miles. I would have thought keeping them 5 years say would still be very reasonable and better value to the taxpayer

An old mate of mine had almost exclusive use of his grannies motability car…

CountZeroFull Member

I changed my job and started working for a company that refurbished the vehicles before they were sold, the ones in good condition were often bought by the dealership before they even came in for work, those sometimes just needed the adaptations removed and the car fully cleaned, others needed quite a lot of work due to the extensive modifications made for the original owner. We had one come in that had so many modifications made that I couldn’t even work out how to start it, let alone how the logistics driver had managed to drive the thing – the previous owner must have been very disabled to need so many modifications.

They do some amazing work on those, a family friend I used to babysit for when I was a kid had a type of dwarfism (I think) where his arms and legs were really short. He had a modified steering wheel to bring it closer to the seat, and all the foot controls mounted on it as well.  Bloody impressive how well he could drive it,  you wouldn't have known he was disabled without seeing the controls.

The article is behind a paywall so I can’t see exact figures

Here you go. https://archive.is/V2AVe

We bought MrsF's car from a car supermarket - ex. motability (driver hadn't had any modifications) - was in spectacular condition for a 3 year old car, services on the dot etc.  My neighbour had some nice cars on the scheme, but despite only being early 60's she'd had a lot of health issues and couldn't walk far. She didn't make 70 - lovely lady and my 'apple pie tree' is now just an apple tree. She used to ask for some of the apples, and she'd then bake us a supply of apple crumble and pie.

The bit I don’t really understand is why they are only kept for 3 years. It’s not as if most of them do many miles. I would have thought keeping them 5 years say would still be very reasonable and better value to the taxpayer

This is around things like the residuals and running costs.

• MOT due at 3 years old and a fair few cars fail the first.
• Many manufacturer warranties are / were three years.
• Starting to see some more expensive service items coming up in year 4
• Second hand market is keener on 3 year Vs 4 year old stock

There's a reason that nearly every company car scheme / personal lease / new car PCP has run to a 3 year cycle.  It's the right balance of risk/reward and/or if you're out of sync with "normal" then you're taking a financial risk.  I guess that's a risk noone wants to take.

The criteria for a blue badge is also quite strict. I know people personally who struggle in their daily lives and would genuinely benefit, but have been refused.

This is very true. Currently trying to get a renewal blue badge for my dad, who is blind, has Parkinson's so can only walk a couple of steps even with a zimmer frame, and has severe dementia. Have been rejected twice so far...and that is for a renewal (spoiler - he hasn't got better in the last 5 years)

Luckily we don't need it much as we live in a place with easy parking, and he rarely leaves the house. Would be more of a challenge for some.

And as others have pointed out the mobility car lease is taken from your disability benefits. If you don't take a Motability car then you can use the money for bus/train/taxi etc. When my mum had one a few years ago, only the very cheapest Motability car was in her budget - for anything bigger/better she would have to have contributed from her own money as well.

As someone who qualifies for a motability car I thought I'd post the criteria you need to meet to get higher rate mobility. From the following tables you need to score 12 points to qualify, so it's not a picnic being disabled enough to qualify.

And as others have pointed out the mobility car lease is taken from your disability benefits.

Yeah this, I think my MG HG Trophy costs me £72/week from my pip allowances (I get max amount for mobility and medium for care but gonna apply for max care) and I no longer get reviewed or assessed as I’m royally ****ed due to spms.

Had the car since march/April but only done 1200 miles in it, mostly back/forward to hospital at Dumfries and taking mum/mate for shopping

When my mum had one a few years ago, only the very cheapest Motability car was in her budget – for anything bigger/better she would have to have contributed from her own money as well.

Yeah, forgot to mention that, when I was working for SFS/Cazoo, we’d see some pretty tasty Motability vehicles come through, including things like MX5’s, but that’s only because the owner coughed up extra for the privilege.

I was lucky to get my EcoSport, there were quite a few went through our workshop, I had registration and VIN, but none came up when my local dealer looked for them, basically because they were all in excellent condition, and the dealers they were picked up from knew the history and had them taken straight back because they almost always had a buyer for them.*
The only reason I got mine was my dealer found it listed for auction the following day, I literally had to make a decision on the spot and give them the money for a deposit the next morning, and I had to arrange the balance as a loan with my account manager first thing the next morning.

Which would be impossible now, because I no longer have an account manager at my bank…

*I took a really nice VW into a dealership one morning, and when I dropped the keys off the sales person asked what it was like, I said it was a lovely car, very tidy and a great drive, to which she replied that’s good, I’ve got a buyer coming in shortly.

This means that 4.6% of the population in England had a Blue Badge.  1 in 20 people? is our population really in that bad health?

4.9% of the population are over 80, whilst not all of them will qualify for a blue badge, it does put your number into perspective.

I'd presume theres two factors to an increase. One is employers are steadily getting better at accommodating disabilities so better employment options probably creates a greater need/purpose for transport. The other is the aging population now contains more drivers than past generations - in fact the first of the generation of two-car households is probably hitting their eighties now.

is our population really in that bad health?

Disability and poor health are not the same thing. My cousin is disable, drives a motorbility supplied car and is a 2x double regional athletics champion. So he's perfectly healthy.

All cars are mobility aids really - its a bit weird that they're so popular with the able bodied.

My neighbour has a motability car for as long as I've known her.

Her kid has severe disability she is housed in an area out of town by the council due to his needs. She. Needs a vehicle to get anywhere but is a full time carer with the income that comes with that.

There are hundreds of thousands in her situation.

If the system helps those people ... For the odd story of someone playing the system. I'm ok with that.

When you tighten the system to exclude all the cheaters. The system becomes unmanageable for those that need. Such as the current pip system that's on paper deemed a relative fit for work despite having been in full time care all her adult life

Our Peugeot partner was ex motability at 3yo. 6700miles on the clock. Blue badge still in the glovebox. They make good motability cars due to the high seat base upright comfortable position on all the seats  and easy access. Tall boot for any mobility aids.

I think alot of people don't realise a large proportion 3 y/o cars on the market were likely motability at one point.

Current research is showing people in uk are keeping their cars longer .....as far as car ownership where it can't be avoided -this is a good thing.

Edited - went off on a lengthy rant.

Summary - we're glad we have the ability to claim a motability car for our son but absolutely hate having to do it.

All cars are mobility aids really – its a bit weird that they’re so popular with the able bodied.

This.

  Is it fair

I suspect many people who have to use a mobility car, for themselves or a loved one, wonder about the fairness of life. Not for the same reasons as you though.

@trailrat:

If the system helps those people … For the odd story of someone playing the system. I’m ok with that.

Absolutely. Well said. This goes for pretty much every benefit there is in my opinion.

had to delete several replies, nt8008s & sum up my feelings.

what most people don’t realise, one can swap the higher rate mobility allowance for a car so you’re “given a car “.

when my son was born I had a 307sw- perfectly adequate for all the baby gear. It was only when he got a wheelchair that the car wasn’t suitable and we swapped to a grand espace via motability.

I'm sure my son would like the luxury of being able to talk without a communication device, walk unaided, be able to wipe his own arse than have a “luxury vehicle”.

It's been said but...

You need the higher rate mobility component of PIP to even have a chance of getting a mobility car. It's an extremely high bar and for many the process to get it is harrowing and humiliating. For some it includes going right to tribunal stage just to get PIP so it can be a year long journey, going against a system designed to trip you up at eBay stage.

The pip monies are then used to pay for the car.

I don't have a mobility car but my good friend with MS di6d and I got to see her go through this process.

Having a chat with your GP about feeling a bit bluesy wont cut it.

Same as FB-ATB having written a number of replies then thought better of it. A highly emotive subject for obv reasons. We're essentially part of a club no one particularly wants to be part of but that's another subject in itself.

However, and a big HOWEVER, thank **** we live in this country and have 'a' system for 'supporting' people with disabilities. It's by no means perfect at all. At times it feels unfair, intrusive, demeaning and full of unnecessary red tape to trudge through. BUT, we do have a system and compared to other countries considerably better off than most IMO. There will always be ****s sponging off the system, that's life.

Is it fair
I suspect many people who have to use a mobility car, for themselves or a loved one, wonder about the fairness of life. Not for the same reasons as you though.

To quote Mark Steel "why should blind people get dogs? I can't climb trees but nobody buys me a monkey".

Its a strange mind set to see someone get receive something need and perceive  it somehow as a perk that they've themselves have been denied

Why new cars rather than used?

I’m all for supporting disadvantaged people to overcome things (generally, not just cars), but not to elevate them to things that are luxuries for working non disabled people.

Largely becuase if you are the funder / operator of the scheme the vehicles you are supplying need to be a known quantity - reliable, safe, warrenteed. It would be too onerous a task, practically and administratively to make supplies of vehicles on the scale these schemes are operated and be able to ensure that the are suitably reliable and safe. Its more important for the costs of purchase, use and resale to be predictable.

That would be the same for any large scale providers of vehicles. Fleet buyers don't provide their employees with second hand vehicles, car hire companies don't rent out second hand vehicles, the ambulance service doesn't buy second hand ambulances  because used vehicles introduce too many unknowns into the system.

The ‘scandal’ that gets me is blue badges.

I’ll happily give mine to anyone who wants it, provided they take MS too.

as said previously the process to get one is fairly intrusive and uiu have to supply quite a bit of evidence so I’m sure the numbers are valid.

Thank you to those who posted from experience, I have learned things on this thread.