Most fun 29er hardtail frame?

Currently on a Vitus Sentier 29, bought as a donor bike for eventually something nicer. I ride a bit of everything but it’s mostly short flowy and jumpy bikepark stuff – Woburn, Chicksands, Northampton, Leamington etc as well as the odd day out at Stile Cop/FOD/BPW. Not really looking for something to put the xc miles in, it’s all about having fun downhill.

Overall the Sentier isn’t bad but it just feels a bit boring to ride – the chainstays at 438mm are longer than the reach (428mm) which could be contributing to this? Seems to require a lot of rider input to get it to do anything and isn’t fun and flickable/poppy/insert other buzzword. It feels like I’m just hanging on rather than being fully involved with it, if that makes sense. Maybe not helped by the taller stack (643mm). Don’t think I need to go “full LSL” as there’s nothing too steep or gnar here. 130mm travel feels good, don’t want to go any longer on a HT for sure.

It’s my first 29er and I’m only 5’8″ with a 29″ inside leg so wondering if this is all just par for the course, or if a frame with short as possible chainstays and lower stack would be the answer. Considering if 27.5 or MX might work better for me, but I do like how the full 29er rolls and keeps momentum plus I already have all the parts to swap over. Even been looking at longer reach DJ bikes but feel like that might be too far in the other direction!

So what would STW suggest, in the “under £500 2nd hand” price bracket if possible? Switch9er? Salsa Timberjack also looks interesting.

If you can bag a 2023 (updated geo) Ragley Big Al (should be cheap), I and a few others on here can vouch that they are huge amounts of fun

Ragley Big Al… Vote No.2

I love my 2023 Big Al which I’m running with 130mm Z2’s.

Running mine with 150mm Lyriks and it certainly doesn’t feel over forked

Fast(er) back tyre…

Put a fast back tyre, preferably even a semi slick, on any bike and it’ll liven it up, but especially on a Hardtail.

Vitus Sentier is already quite a fun and lively frame as mass produced HT’s go… Anything longer, lower, slacker, will potentially be more capable but arguably less “fun” given your criteria.

Get a honzo DL

sliding dropouts and I can confirm that all the way forward is much more fun

I think at your height you could go longer reach – but don’t go crazy. Maybe 440-450mm.

438mm is a reasonably short chainstay for a 29er – I don’t think there would be many 29er hardtails with shorter. Perhaps something like a Santa Cruz Chameleon could do a job.

I don’t think personally a high stack is a bad thing – I’d rather have a taller front end on a bike.

Random idea – but if you’re confident playing with geometry you might get a custom Marino frame for that price – not sure how much they’ll cost delivered in the uk right now.

@joebristol – I don’t think I know quite enough about geometry (certainly with modern bikes) to know what really works for me yet to go fully custom. From what I’ve seen a few 29ers have 425mm CS which is also what my previous favourite 26″ Scott Voltage FR had. Only one variable but still, I loved how that bike rode and wish I never sold it to get something more pedalable!

440 reach would probably be ok. Prior to this I briefly had a Sommet 27 with 453 reach and I felt too stretched out, I fitted a 35mm stem to bring it down a bit from the 50mm one, which made the bike feel better to me.

Mines 450mm reach, 410mm CS, (Rå .410), I’m a hair over 6ft. Wouldn’t fit your budget, but you might be able to get a Marino made for around £500? Maybe a touch more.

its a hoot to ride 😁

Marin San Quentin sounds like it’d be perfect for you.

Stanton Sedona could be right up your street?

Big Al  without a shadow out doubt  for the price .  – just fun !

Going against the 1st couple of posts, having owned one, I’d avoid the Big Al – great at descending but that’s about it. I’d look at something like a Nukeproof Scout or SC Chameleon – both better all rounders imo

Your post says 27.5 to me. You want fun for razzing about which is 27.5. But at the same time avoid LLS as it just makes a bike super capable, but just loses some of the BMX fun – popping the front and generally dicking about.

Going against the 1st couple of posts, having owned one, I’d avoid the Big Al

Guessing if you’ve owned one and now don’t, it was probably the old geometry?

Stanton Sedona could be right up your street?

Apart from price

I’ve got a grin inducing SolarisMax. I love that bike, does everything, everywhere. I’m 170cm, and doesn’t feel big, it’s planted when I need it to be and lively when I want it to be.

I have no clue about bike geometry, I just either like a bike or I don’t! Having just read the comments about chain stay length, does it make a huge difference having shorted chainstays?

It’s got me thinking whether it could help make my Chameleon feel a bit livelier if I move the adjustable dropouts forward to the limit?

If it has to be a 29er, then I’m surprised no-one’s recommended the On-One Scandal yet? But it sounds to me like you need to drop a wheel size. 27½” wheeled bikes consistently feel more fun for me.

I was going to suggest a Cotic BFe Max as mine’s an absolute hoot with a 140mm fork, but CS length and reach are both on the long side. It just works though. A size small has quite short reach but has even longer CSs than your current bike.

Guessing if you’ve owned one and now don’t, it was probably the old geometry?

Nope, still have it and it is the latest geo. It’s certainly fun on the downs but the Scout and previously Chameleon it replaced were better all rounders imo. The Big Al feels more of a slog than it should when you don’t have gravity on your side.

NP Scout 290 does look like it’d suit the OP well with 440mm reach and 432mm rear end (medium).

Yeah a 27in hardtail will be more nippy still, but I assume covering ground is a consideration as well.

I assume covering ground is a consideration as well.

It was when I first bought the bike, hence going 29er in the first place as I wanted a do it all. I’ve realised I don’t really enjoy riding loads of miles on a MTB though and am planning to get a gravel bike for local “fitness” rides, if I ever end up getting some stuff sold to fund it! On the MTB I’m more of a “struggle or push to the top & session the fun trails” kind of rider.

Very conscious of overbiking myself too as I did have a Sommet 27 for a bit and that was kinda worse than the Sentier for where I’m riding, too much travel and downhill focused geometry took all the fun out of things.

Loads of well priced Scout frames on FB Marketplace at the moment.

I was tempted to build one up but went the C2W route and got a Trek Roscoe 9 complete bike instead.

Try narrower bars on your current bike, will liven up the steering and will also lift some weight off the bars. The fashion for ever wider bars has its downside.

But yeah, I’d try faster tyres and narrower bars before going for a new bike. Sometimes though a new bike is what the heart really wants.

I think you’re asking the impossible really…

Another vote for the Cotic BFe Max. On paper it’s LLS with longer CS, but it feels fun and poppy to me!
It’s incredibly fast too. Had it at BPW and it just took off. I was the limiting factor for sure.
I’m the same ‘dimensions’ as you and run a Medium with a 35mm stem, 800mm bars (20mm rise) and 1x10mm spacer under the stem with a CC series 40 headset. Comfortable to ride all day.
I’ve run it 650b PLUS but with that amount of fork travel just found it wasn’t needed. I went for 29” with 2.35″ rear and 2.6″ front and it rolls very fast with plenty of grip.

I’m wondering if I should get a cheap 27.5″ rear wheel to try mullet out on my current frame. The HA is steep enough to get away with not slacking it out too much I think. Would maybe give me a sense of the difference a smaller wheel would make vs big geometry changes.

Then again I still prefer this bike to the Sommet I had set up with 26″ wheels so not sure it’s necessarily a wheel size thing.

“ Another vote for the Cotic BFe Max. On paper it’s LLS with longer CS, but it feels fun and poppy to me!”

I think Tom would hate this, even more than he’d hate my Moxie (which has shorter stays and a lower BB). I find my Moxie hilarious fun, with so much stability but also the pop and liveliness you get from zero rear suspension and a very light rear (mine is singlespeed).

Love my Bird Forge & Bird were really great to deal with.

They also have their Zero 29

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Tom, where are you located? Feel free to have a ride on mine if you want. I’m in South Oxfordshire.
I would try and get a ride on some of the bikes above to see what works/doesn’t work for you, otherwise it’s just academic numbers on a page. I often find numbers don’t add up to reality. The O-O Scandal I had is shorter in everyway, yet felt more wooden/less playful to me. I use my bike exactly like you do, but it’s very personal with what works for you.

There’s a lot of factors to making a hardtail fun IMO. Geo, frame material and build components all matter, but there’s also different executions beyond the on paper specs too.

I’ve got a Moxie which isn’t fun in the ‘poppy’ sense, but it flys down hills and over rough terrain and somehow doesn’t just feel like a plough that’s taking you along for the ride. Truly love it.

Conversely, I built this Ragley initially out of old bits and Chiggle bargains. I downsized to a Large (460mm reach) frame… I’m 6’2″ for reference… it flounders on fast, rough downhill trails where the Moxie thrives, but it’s great on smoother stuff and so much easier to jump, hop, get the front wheel up and generally cock about on. Despite this, the initial build still felt pretty dead and lacking compared to the Moxie. Then I changed the wheels!.. switching from the old cheap, heavy WTB wheels and mid treaded tires to some cheapish Hunt Trailwides and much faster rolling rubber transformed it. Less rolling resistance and about half a kilo less rolling weight brought it to life. I’d originally upgraded the wheels in anticipation of a future frame upgrade, but for now i’m having fun riding it as is.

Nope, still have it and it is the latest geo. It’s certainly fun on the downs but the Scout and previously Chameleon it replaced were better all rounders imo. The Big Al feels more of a slog than it should when you don’t have gravity on your side.

That’ll somewhat depend on how it’s built. Mine is built with a 130mm fork, light wheels and xc tyres to complement my much more solidly built Bird Aether 9.

Banshee Paradox

That’ll somewhat depend on how it’s built. Mine is built with a 130mm fork, light wheels and xc tyres to complement my much more solidly built Bird Aether 9.

Very true but buying something like the Big Al then building it as an xc bike sort of defeats the point? Mine isn’t a heavy build (XT/EX511s/Ext) but it compliments what it’s good at without trying to make it something it isn’t.

I just think something with slightly more conservative geo would be a better choice for the OP.

switching from the old cheap, heavy WTB wheels and mid treaded tires to some cheapish Hunt Trailwides and much faster rolling rubber transformed it. Less rolling resistance and about half a kilo less rolling weight brought it to life.

My bike has the cheap WTB i30 wheelset, I did immediately notice the weight of the back wheel when I took it off recently! I was going to try some faster tyres anyway as the Magic Mary/Nobby Nic combo does feel a bit excessive for mostly hardpack stuff.

@cokie I’m in Northants so not a million miles away from you, would love to take you up on that offer next time I get a family free day out 🙂

I’d try mulleting yours with a cheap rear wheel and fast but tough rear tyre. I’ve got a Marley 29 with a -2 headset and a 150 fork. It’s a good laugh. Was probably more so with a 27.5 rear.

29 doesn’t automatically remove the fun, and 27.5 doesn’t automatically add it IMHO, so I disagree with some of the comments about needing a 27.5.

@_tom_  – just drop me a message when you’re ready 🙂

Fun is so relative, I’m having more fun on my Loco Moto than I’ve had on a hardtail since my old Ragley Ti,it also happens to be the fastest and most capable I’ve ever had. It’s stupendously long so it’s not exactly agile, hops and jumps and stuff aren’t naturally easy on it but the flipside of all that stability and capability is you can put in ridiculously big inputs, super hard pumps or changes of direction or whatever and it just gets on with it, and you generally feel more comfortable doing that sort of thing. Like you have a bit of extra free headspace and confidence for it.

So that’s kind of complicated, for the stuff that tends to be most fun, it’s not exactly easy to do it unlike a shorter or snappier bike, but it’s sort of easily hard.

Stif squatch and canyon stoic have short chainstays and rip the corners.