More trauma for the non working classes

richmtb – Member

Tax Credits are basically a subsidy to the profits of businesses who can’t or won’t pay a living wage.

And if we break it down further… ‘living wage’ is usually dictated by most people’s largest expense – housing costs.

The root cause once again being sky high house prices.

It amuses me how people are demanding a living wage etc on here, try running a small business and then see how tough it really is.
you are getting shat on from all angles from council tax to rent, to phone and electric, NI, tax etc, imports from overseas, european non vat imports, etc, then factor in wages and you will find its not that easy. what actually happens is that companies will not employ people at all the higher the wages are demanded, companies are not a social charity, if you want that then look at the hight street and the only growth industry is charity shops. but they arent paying anything as they are full of volunteers.

It amuses you that people want a living wage?

You would prefer an economy that forces employees into poverty so you can play at being a businessman.

yes, if I am going to employ someone and i cant afford to pay living wage then I wont employ someone.
but would you rather I paid less than living wage and employed someone or not employ anyone, let the other staff take up the demand with overtime etc.

it’s a big committment to employ someone, and I dont take it lightly.

If wages are constantly driven down, and people have ever lower disposable incomes, then how is a society based on selling each other lattes going to function?

play?
you cheeky ****, it’s my livelihood.

Or how about just a full-time 40hr properly contracted minimum wage job even!
Go to the job centre and try n find one…

and MSP I dont mind anyone wanting a living wage, or more than living wage, but not all jobs warrant it, so what amuses me are people on this site insisting that these jobs are just given out to people, the jobs arent there and are even less likely to be there with wage limits, I dont want people living in poverty, but jobs in factories making things in a low skilled environment arent going to happen as they are all in the far east.
so unless someone can dream up a new industry in the uk which pays a living wage to low skilled workers then we are going to have high levels of unemployment for ever.

i agree with kevevs– a full lime job should pay a wage that should not need topping up from the state in order to provide a ‘living income’– in truth £9 hour would be a living minimum–

rebel12 – Member

The vast majority of people who claim this sort of benefit are in rental accommodation so your argument is not really valid is it?

Got numbers?

how do the scandawegians and germans manage ?

so unless someone can dream up a new industry in the uk which pays a living wage to low skilled workers then we are going to have high levels of unemployment for ever.

Agreed, so it seems rather crappy of the government to cut peoples benefits on the pretence that it will push them into work when there are no jobs.

The germans employ about a third of their workforce on way less than minimum wage, the Germans are a low wage economy.
there are many germans on 3 euros an hour.

The government intends to lend to people whom the banks won’t? Which will then drive property prices up again? In a market that still hasn’t had a much needed readjustment? Should that not be setting alarm bells off all over the place? Have we really learned absolutely nothing?

Today’s “society” is greed driven. It’s fine to say that there will be another crash, whether that be banker driven or housing boom, but the people making these short term decisions, where will they be when this happens? You can guarantee they only have their own best interests at heart and will be long gone when it happens.

I dont want people living in poverty, but jobs in factories making things in a low skilled environment arent going to happen as they are all in the far east.

There is a simple choice really, You pay a living working wage, or you top up their wages with benefits. But you probably want to have your cake and eat it and have neither.

Sancho – Member

…so unless someone can dream up a new industry in the uk which pays a living wage to low skilled workers then we are going to have high levels of unemployment for ever.

Or, work on the other side of the equation and try to figure out a way to lower the level of what’s required for a ‘living wage’ 😉

The government needs to address social housing, and address its bullshit war policies and stop wasting money on IT, the NHS, the navy etc etc stop tax loopholes for international companies, tax freight and airlines properly, stop bullshit imports, get tought with China on copyright etc, clamp down on duty, etc, drop VAT, and build infrastructure for local/regional railways etc,

but i live in a dreamworld and I will be struggling to get buy until I die.

The germans employ about a third of their workforce on way less than minimum wage, the Germans are a low wage economy.
there are many germans on 3 euros an hour.

But, based upon living there, they have far greater level of rent control/restrictions – which must make a difference.

And long term rents and a culture that doesn’t worship at the high altar of house ownership.

So everyone who disagrees with the STW metro liberals is a daily mail reading fool who given the proper re-education (presumably you will set up camps come the revolution) would see their errors and conform.

house ownership in itself isnt such a bad thing, but seeing houses as investment boils my piss.
and buy to let should be banned. or at least taxed to **** to make it unprofitable.
and all those tv show presenters telling you how to make a profit on a house should be lined up and shot

IanW – Member
So everyone who disagrees with the STW metro liberals is a daily mail reading fool who given the proper re-education (presumably you will set up camps come the revolution) would see their errors and conform.

What are you worried about? It is the most popular policy of evar, afterall. Isn’t it?

Sancho – Member
house ownership in itself isnt such a bad thing, but seeing houses as investment boils my piss.
and buy to let should be banned. or at least taxed to **** to make it unprofitable.
and all those tv show presenters telling you how to make a profit on a house should be lined up and shot

Really?

In order to maintain mobility in the jobs market we are inadvertent landlords for the 3rd time now. Are we evil or victims of a screwed housing market and a decade of reckless government spending that has left nothing in reserve after the most profitable period in recent history? It’s not that profitable but it is better than having to leave houses empty or stay put and not work. I guess you don’t mean people like me but your making sweeping generalisations that don’t really help.

Physical mobility would be useful a this point but people are afraid of change.

Im not trying to help or resolve any issues, this is a forum where sweeping generalisation is part of it, but it sounds like you have a habit of bying houses and then moving on and renting out the old ones, which is nice if you can afford it, but what would stop you renting instead of buying and letting.

Im not trying to help or resolve any issues, this is a forum where sweeping generalisation is part of it, but it sounds like you have a habit of bying houses and then moving on and renting out the old ones, which is nice if you can afford it, but what would stop you renting instead of buying and letting.

Nope very wrong, I understand it’s part of making the point on the internet.

1 house the missus bought when she was settled, tried working elsewhere but didn’t want to sell, by the time we tried impossible to sell as no buyers anywhere. Now emigrated can’t sell better off renting, we are not screwing anyone over but charging market rate for rent.

We are renting currently as our money is tied up in property and common sense prevents us from over committing again to a difficult property situation. FWIW I’m mostly for renting as a more sensible financial proposition than buying in the current market. Just when those of us who have had to move and rent our properties out get flamed for doing what we needed to then it gets a bit annoying.

mikewsmith – Member
Just when those of us who have had to move and rent our properties out get flamed for doing what we needed to then it gets a bit annoying.

Seems to me like you didn’t do any of the stuff sancho flamed though?

house the missus bought when she was settled, tried working elsewhere but didn’t want to sell, by the time we tried impossible to sell as no buyers anywhere as asking too much money for it

FTFY.
This is the problem rearing it’s head again, house prices are just too high. Guessing here, but if you took a large mortgage you can’t afford to sell at a loss so are forced to keep it. Had house prices been lower you would not have had to borrow so much to buy it and would have been able to sell without making a loss.
The best thing the government could do to help out is to find a way of lowering house prices, either increase supply (council house building, planning controls) or reducing demand (taxing investors, tougher imegration controls). In simple terms a cut in housing benefit should reduce the amount tennants have to spend on rent, reduced demand leads to lower rent leads to lower prices as investors leave the market, meaning those who now receive less benefit can afford the same house when the rent falls. It’s this transitional period when benefits are aflling but costs remain high which is going to be the problem.
I have a horrible feeling the government are going to blink first though and benefits and rents and then house prices will continue to rise.

Just because you could sell a house at a given price doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do – depends on what the reasons for sale are really.

The council are doing the best to increase supply around my way, we’re now discussing which parts of the green belt to build on around the village.

love your comment mike, in that you did what you needed to do, ie buy a bunch of property around the country and then emigrate.

you are exactly part of the problem and I would happily see people like you being taxed heavily for these investments maybe then you would be selling off cheaper and thus relieve the burden on the property stock in the uk.

but dont worry Im sure you will be fine with your portfolio

Theres a shortage of social housing & the construction industry is struggling.

I’ve had an idea!

The germans employ about a third of their workforce on way less than minimum wage, the Germans are a low wage economy.
there are many germans on 3 euros an hour.

No they don’t, the low wage workers are transient (temporary migrant workers) ie seasonal workers, you get them in the UK too picking fruit etc. Only in the UK the employers cheat the system another way by taking board and lodgings out of pay.

Most people earn more in Germany than the UK.

I’ve had an idea!

Does it involve cakes? 😀 All the best ideas do.

But this is a problem with democracy isn’t it? Most homeowner voters will register their disappointment with falling house prices at the ballot box, won’t they? Even if it’s needed.

love your comment mike, in that you did what you needed to do, ie buy a bunch of property around the country and then emigrate.

you are exactly part of the problem and I would happily see people like you being taxed heavily for these investments maybe then you would be selling off cheaper and thus relieve the burden on the property stock in the uk.

but dont worry Im sure you will be fine with your portfolio

1 house love to sell it but only had 1 viewing even with asking price lower than everything else around. It’s not as simple as people think. What are you going too tax? the massive profit – about £50/year currently over the mortgage

I sit somewhat on the fence over this. There are people who take advantage of the system, those who could undoubtedly work some hrs per week but choose not to. However the family work related benefit system just doesn’t add up. The system at the moment is banded so if you work 18 hours per week you get the same income for doing 29 hrs work. If you work 30 hrs or more you are entitled to an extra £750 per yr or £14.42 per week based on one parent with one child. Now please tell me who would work an extra 12 hrs per wk for £14.42.

For me it comes down to education. I know not everyone can be a rocket scientist but if you come out of the education system with few or no qualifications you will more than likely be better off on benefits. IMO we need to stop cutting back our schools budgets and change the value/attitude some people have toward both education and lifestyle. Based on having little or no qualifications which would you choose: a full time minimum wage job OR 18 hrs work & benefits top up when both choices give a similar lifestyle? Think about it…you could work 2 days and MTB 5 days…! 😯

MSP 30% of Germans are on lower pay than a living wage so thats not transient workers.
the ones on under 3 euros are probably many transient workers but the Germans on higher pay than uk is not exactly right.

Its why other EU countries have asked Germany to implment minimum wages that we in the uk have

Theres a shortage of social housing & the construction industry is struggling.

I’ve had an idea!

That’s the scary thing, it’s hardly rocket science yet the government seems determined to plow the barren furrow of austerity until all of our ends.

You can’t keep hammering spending while doing nothing about the demand side of the economy. That’s just a race to the bottom

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The trouble with the minimum wage

This is the problem rearing it’s head again, house prices are just too high. Guessing here, but if you took a large mortgage you can’t afford to sell at a loss so are forced to keep it. Had house prices been lower you would not have had to borrow so much to buy it and would have been able to sell without making a loss.

In the US you can just give your house back to the bank with no further loss, which is what caused the 2008 crash, rather than here where any loss is ‘assigned’ to you. Consequently our crash is still going on, obviously not so obvious in areas with a shortage of property.

There are 2 problems
There is a lack of Credit which stops people entering the market
The market is stopped from lending to people who cant repay

To keep this market going we need a massive crash, very unpopular. It would still leave us in a hole but would also make the rest of the UK get going.