Modern eco rated woodburners – problems?

So before we get the pitchforks out – old property, oil fired, endless supply of wood on site. I know it’s not perfect but we either heat the house with oil or wood.

We’ve had loads of stoves over the years and never had any bother, but they’ve all been internal flue and traditional woodburners or multifuel and probably not very efficient. We recently fitted a small eco ready MI Stoves Skiddaw and it’s been a complete PIA. It’s external flue so when the external temp is low, there’s no natural draw in the flue and it was a bugger to light – smoke coming back down into room etc. We’ve fitted a powered flue fan now which works fine to light it but refuelling is still a lottery – even with the flue fan running. Open the door wider than an inch or two and there’s a load of smoke / ash will escape into the room. Very dry wood, stove burns hot (very clean glass), only refuelling on glowing embers – can’t possibly open the door when a new log goes on and it’s smoking!

It feels like the design of the baffle plate directs the heat / smoke straight out the front of the stove when the door is opened. I’m guessing this is to maximise heat output / efficiency when the door is closed but getting pretty fed up of it. All the other stoves I’ve had (including currently an older one in the main room) you can open the door no problem, pretty much at any point including immediately after lighting and very rarely get anything more than a tiny wisp of smoke escaping into the room.

Anyone else got a modern design and is this common now?

Are you opening the vent to full before opening the door?

Are you opening the vent to full before opening the door?

I’m not sure that would help really as the door is open and would override the vent as the air source.
TBH you shouldn’t need to open a vent either!

It sounds like either a poor design or the flue isn’t heating up properly for whatever reason.
(I’m going with the former)

Any kind of flue damper/vent fitted, that needs to be opened before you open the door?

Have you tried holding the door open just a crack for 2-3sec before you open it fully? I find this helps build a draw upwards. Similar to opening the vent I guess, but much quicker on my stove.

Nothing in the flue / damper etc. It’s just twinwall out the wall and routed up externally. Makes no difference opening the vent as the door opening is loads bigger than the small air vents. I’m currently in “discussion” with supplier as I think it’s a crap design but they sell loads of them so I’ve not got much traction.

Feels like the top vermiculite baffle plate is designed to minimise heat escape from the stove when the door is closed, making it more efficient. But that same design is directing the hot air, smoke, ash straight out the door when it’s opened.

Installation was signed off with HETAS certificate and that was before the addition of the flue fan) so there should be no issues with the flue itself.

Have you tried holding the door open just a crack for 2-3sec before you open it fully? I find this helps build a draw upwards. Similar to opening the vent I guess, but much quicker on my stove.

Yup. Always crack the door a bit first and open it very slowly the minimum possible to get a log in there.

It feels like the design of the baffle plate directs the heat / smoke straight out the front of the stove when the door is opened.

Yep ours is the same.

That’s why the interior PM10 levels are so high in homes with modern burners.

They need the large baffle plates to meet the ‘eco’ regs although the still spew PM-10s up the chimney by the skip load….

It’s a terrible stove design.
I fitted one once and never again, the customer had bought it online.
The manufacturer of course maintained this was the first person with any issue they’d heard of…

I ended up modding it for the customer.
A length of 50x 5 flat bar along the top of the door opening to direct the smoke up the flue instead of out the door.
I then cut 20mm or so off the front of the lower vermiculite baffle.
All good once that was done. It actually burns really nice, but spewing smoke into the room ruins it.
This was fitted to a lined , insulated chimney with strong draw.

@bedmaker – was it this specific model or another eco rated stove?

I’ve already modded the log retainer bar across the lower part of the stove – it wasn’t deep enough so loads of ash and embers used to fall out the front and onto the hearth every time you added more logs. That 50mm flat bar along the top would prob be all it takes to sort the problem (combined with trimming the baffle back).

Installation was signed off with HETAS certificate and that was before the addition of the flue fan) so there should be no issues with the flue itself.

” should” <> “isn’t”

We had a nightmare with our “professionally” installed Clearview stove. Spent 6 months arguing with the fitters and Clearview themselves about it. We had black sooty water oozing through the ceiling into the room. The fire was a nightmare to light and never really got going.
The cretin that installed it claimed that the water was from burning wet wood. I don’t think he had the slightest clue about the chemical reactions and products involved.

Anyway, to get to the point eventually, fitting a steel chimney liner into the concrete chimney solved all the problems.

And IMHO it will solve yours too.

@thegeneralist – this is a twinwall flue not a concrete chimney. It’s a newly installed steel flue, standalone and not part of an existing chimney. I used to have an open fire in an unlined brick chimney so familiar with those issues ;-)

bedmaker seems to have nailed what I’m experiencing tbh. Might be time to get the welder out and make a few mods!

@dashed, yeah that exact stove, but rebranded by one of the online shops, I forget which one.
And yes, I also put a plate on the log retainer to raise it 20mm or so and cover the daft holes.

These issues are not specific to this stove, it’s reasonably common as manufacturer chase the highest % efficiency. Even top notch ones such as charnwood have it with the latest models. They at least acknowledge the issue but the advice is to remove the top baffle…

In an ideal world, every burner would be fitted with a flue damper, and the end user would manage to get their head round the concept of opening the damper, refuelling, closing the damper.
Hetas don’t like a damper though, as it has to be assumed that everyone is fick.

Is the twin wall coming out the top then 45 degree bend to exit the building or is the flue coming horizontal out the back?
Also is there an air vent in the room?

Fairy nuff.
I just thought that your statement seemed to imply that you thought it wasn’t drawing because the chimney was cold, which was the problem I was having.

It’s external flue so when the external temp is low, there’s no natural draw in the flue and it was a bugger to light

Brilliant – thanks @bedmaker. As you say, burns nicely and easy to control it’s just anything to do with opening the door is a pain!

Guess it’s time to get the welder out…

I just thought that your statement seemed to imply that you thought it wasn’t drawing because the chimney was cold, which was the problem I was having.

We were initially having that problem but we fitted a powered flue fan to get over that issue.
It’s basically got a big extractor fan fitted on top of the metal, lined flue so lighting is now not a problem (but it was originally!). One of these: https://draftbooster.co.uk/draftbooster/

Anyway, to get to the point eventually, fitting a steel chimney liner into the concrete chimney solved all the problems.

I bet you fitted an adapter from the stove to the existing clay chimney liner.
We have the same setup and I suggested it to my Clearview fitter and he refused saying that the adapters are crap and that I’d get sooty water dropping back down into/around the stove.
So we lined the existing flue instead.

The cretin that installed it claimed that the water was from burning wet wood.

Well there’s water in all wood so he wasn’t exactly wrong. The water/condensation is still there it just can’t escape through the dodgy adapter and eventually evaporates off.

My eco 2022 wood burning stove has a similar problem with smoke coming out of the door when I open it to refuel.
I am usually able to avoid it by burning smaller bits of wood and plenty of it to get the fire hot quickly. The stove pipe thermometer gives me a good indication of how hot it is.

Holy thread resurrection!

So I think we’ve fallen foul of this and would really like advice, I wonder if @bedmaker is still around?

Fitted a Town and country (made in Pickering) Harrogate eco stove, it’s one of these modern ones with the triple baffles https://www.townandcountryfires.co.uk/product/harrogate-eco-sc-copy/

First issue we’ve had tonight is condensation water coming out the front of the stove. I believe this is because it’s connected to a clay chimney.  Flue temp was around 160/170 deg c as I was running it on the low side to bed in the lime plaster.  I think therefore the combination of eco design and cold chimney means it’s not getting hot enough. I think the solution here is a liner for the chimney?

Second issue is then this one of smoke coming in to the room when refuelling. We let it run down a bit to embers, shut down the tertiary air and then slowly crack it. But as you say it still puts smoke in to the room. Is the solution to remove some of the baffling?

interestingly I found this article. Looks like it’s a big issue https://mr-soot.com/2019/11/02/why-having-new-eco-stoves-without-updating-building-regs-may-end-up-with-more-emissions/

I have this in my house. 2 ‘identical’ stoves (visually anyway) one pre one post regs update. Same chimney set up. Old one burns nicer and cleaner than the new one. Not night and day but enough I have considered swapping them as we use the room with the new one in way more.

I find the solution to the smoke issue is just to burn it hard for a minute before you refuel. Removes the smoke from the system as well as getting the new fuel going quicker.

Hi @benpinnick interesting on the burn hard thanks. It seems a little mad really.