I’ve been caught in the blind spot of HGV’s a number of times and have had to hop up the kerb to get out of the way. No big deal really.

Are you not terrified of being crushed one day? That is a properly big deal and you really should try to avoid being caught there (it is one thing that is pretty much totally in your control). As GrahamS points out, one day there might not be an escape route.

Lighting is a different issue though. Cyclists are required by law to have lights so the police are completely justified in stopping cyclists and telling them to get some lights. I’m quite happy with that

Absolutely. Just not during daylight hours.

I’m not saying lights would have been a good idea in the morning rush hour today – I had mine on – but it was daylight, and most cars didn’t so again, would not have been a legal requirement.

So if you filter up the inside of a lorry at the lights or when its indicating you are asking for trouble.

If you undertake a moving lorry you are also definitely asking for trouble.

This could be improved by educating cyclists.

Removing all left hand filter cycle lanes paint would help too,

But what about genuine left hooks? They still happen. That cyclegaz clip that’s been posted a few times. The cyclist did absolutely nothing wrong and was nearly take out be a lorry turning left.

Are you not terrified of being crushed one day? That is a properly big deal and you really should try to avoid being caught there (it is one thing that is pretty much totally in your control). As GrahamS points out, one day there might not be an escape route.

Yes good points by Graham and of course he’s right. I’m just not sure there is anything that can be done to stop the accidents caused by blind spots. Personally I’m more worried about cars turning across the road in front of me as the speed differential is so high.

I haven’t read the content but heard the OP on the radio this morning – stopping cyclist with no Helmets (duh)earphones in (duh) and no hi vis (well….)

Today I went out in the Essex countryside at 2pm. I was dull and drizzling so I had my black night vision tights on, and a flouro Altura Transformer, plus LED’s front and back.

a) LOTS of car’s weren’t bothering with lights, which renders the reflectivity ineffective.
b) I was overtaken on a bend with double solid white lines, despite riding defensively to help prevent that.
c) I was overtaken through a traffic island
d) I was overtaken with a mirror about and inch from my elbow.
c) I was greeted with a blaring horn from 50m behind me on a straight road with no oncoming traffic whilst riding 2ft from the kerb by a Merc for no apparant reason – the driver decided to give me the finger when he went past – no idea why.

Anyway, there are idiots on both sides everyone just needs to be considerate and careful – its dark and slippery out there. Albiet car or bike if you are jumping lights and can’t wait a few seconds and squeeze past /overtake a bus or HGV then that’s your responsibility, not Boris’

It’s just a piece of PR following all the recent deaths to ‘show we’re doing something’.
Anecdote I know, but riding in London 2-3 days a week and my observation is there’s no shortage of people riding with helmets and hi-vis… around 75% would be my judgement.
So they’re kind of missing the point and they almost certainly know that – they just had to get something public and high profile out there which would make a news story to deflect from Boris’s stupid comments last week.

On the other hand the bus driver who gave me a close pass in Paddington tonight told me it would be my fault if I got killed because I was riding in the middle of the lane. Yes, he was a prick. But he’s a prick who thinks he’s in the right and is driving a double decker bus… helmet can’t save me there can it?

I can only hope that behind closed doors Boris, TfL and the Met are having some serious debate about how to make London safe for cyclists – I’m getting 2-3 near hits every ride at the moment and it’s not fun.

tbh the benefits of mass cycling in a congested, polluted city like London are so great that I’m hoping one way or another, the problem will get tackled properly – there’s too much to lose in terms of being able to sell London as a world class city, attracting inward investment.

In the meantime, stay safe, it doesn’t feel that way at the moment…

As has been said, in the most part wearing or not wearing a helmet is a moot point. It will do you no good if you get dragged under an HGV or bus. That aside it does seem as though there is a problem with the attitude of drivers in general. Too often people believe that cyclists should be riding in the gutter, if they are to be riding on the road at all. However, it is my understanding and I recall from my driving lessons, that cyclists should be overtaken as though they are a car i.e. there needs to be no oncoming traffic so that you can properly pass the cyclist leaving ample space. There are numerous youtube headcam clips that show drivers squeezing past and/or becoming aggrevated because a cyclist was not in the gutter and they could not get past. I know that in some cases cyclists will exasperate the situation by purposefully using more road than they need, but generally the drivers are just flat out wrong and clearly have not grasp of the law regarding the issue.

You would think that some sort of ad campaign across all medias could help to teach drivers and cyclists. Obviously it would not change the minds of the ignorant but it would surely do some good.

how about putting a rear rack on your bike and carrying a metal pole, with red flags on the end, sideways?

No car is going to get close as they will scratch up the paint work.

You can just say that you were transporting some cargo to work.

You would have thought it would be very simple to come up with a better mirror system to remove the blind spot completely.

Or camera system, then make it compulsory for all lorries entering the congestion charging zone.

You would think that some sort of ad campaign across all medias could help to teach drivers and cyclists. Obviously it would not change the minds of the ignorant but it would surely do some good.

Yep! I’ve long thought that an advertising campaign covering things like “Why cyclists should ride in the middle of the lane”, “How to overtake safely”, “How to filter”, “What is an ASL?”, “What does amber mean”, “There is no road tax” etc etc would be very useful for educatng and dispelling some of the anger on both sides.

The closest I’ve seen is the TfL / THINK! Cyclist campaign, which is actually not too bad (compared to the NiceWay Code) but probably isn’t prominent enough.

This all seems like decent advice:

[img]http://think.direct.gov.uk/images/drivers-look-out-when-getting-out.jpg[/img][img]http://think.direct.gov.uk/images/cyclists-ride-central-on-narrow-roads.jpg[/img]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJKDyEVUss[/video]

and shouldnt cars be insured

http://road.cc/content/news/99161-police-confiscate-£170000-mclaren-after-driver-hits-cyclist

and the whole of the mets 2500 road policing unit are to take zero tolerance against all road users flouting the road laws.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24989985

in the pop out window interview

You would have thought it would be very simple to come up with a better mirror system to remove the blind spot completely.

You probably could but if it takes 23 mirrors to cover them all then it’s a bit of a nightmare trying to see them all. something like this is probably what’s needed.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSUMQRl-JSo[/video]

I have seen that before too Graham and it does look promising. However as is often the case it is something that needs to be looked for rather than being forced upon people. A proper ad campaign that sits in bewteen all the adverts about lazy bears and thieving kids is what is needed.

I can’t believe people still filter up the inside/left of vehicles.
I’m acutely aware of my vulnerability when I’m on a bike and i wait in traffic or filter down the right of traffic using the crown of the road so I’m at my most visible… the same way I ride my motorbike actually.

If there is an HGV, coach etc turning left I’ll wait behind it rather than move alongside it….sadly the militant lycra warriors I often see in town don’t help themselves.

deviant: please don’t fall for the Boris notion that cyclists killed by HGVs have somehow brought it on themselves by filtering down the side.

That isn’t always the case.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpHdhePAVzI[/video]

I can’t believe people still filter up the inside/left of vehicles.

Some of our road infrastructure encourages it – cycle lanes that have an ASL at the front for example. So the cyclist quite reasonably uses the lane to filter, only to find a car stopped in the ASL. What then?

Ransos…wait in traffic?

We all know cycle lanes aren’t perfect but you’re under no obligation to use them.
I ride my road bike like I ride my motorbike and find it much safer than spending my time on a bike in the gutter using poorly thought out cycling infrastructure.

Graham S… well aware that not all cyclists contribute to their own accidents, often the motorist is at fault.
My issue is the holier than thou attitude from some cyclists who believe they can do no wrong and see the car as ‘the enemy’…. its pathetic and it only takes a healthy dose of common sense to ride safely on the road…. the one near miss I’ve had was when I moved up the inside of a car at a roundabout and he turned left nearly hitting me…. His fault?…. Absolutely…. but taking the high ground won’t do me any good if I’m six feet under so I don’t do that kind of thing anymore.

it only takes a healthy dose of common sense to ride safely on the road.

Common sense helps – but when “common sense” involves deliberately ignoring the provisions that are supposed to be there to protect us then there is something wrong.

Ransos…wait in traffic?

Which is what I do. My point is that in the example I gave, our road infrastructure encourages cyclists to put themselves in danger. It’s not reasonable to expect all cyclists to know that, especially if we want it to be a means of mass transport.

Do these lorries fail to indicate? Are the indicators not very visible or not used well enough in advance?

I can imagine a safety system where the steering wheel can’t be turned past a certain angle without indicating for a minimum period. That angle could be related to and change according to speed so that the vehicle can still react safely at speed or park. Then make sure the indicators are highly visible and possibly audible. And finally add very close object detection for imminent collisions such as maybe 1 foot – just enough room to potentially survive without setting the alarm off at every piece of street furniture.

On an aside – there have been examples of police schemes stopping motorcyclists & advising them about wearing protective clothing, so its not just cyclists getting special treatment 😕

Ransos…wait in traffic?

Wait in a lorries blind spot? Which is what you’re suggesting unless I’ve misread ransos example.

Do these lorries fail to indicate? Are the indicators not very visible or not used well enough in advance?

not got any links to hand but I believe atleast one of the tipper truck incidents last year the driver didn’t indicate.

I can imagine a safety system where the steering wheel can’t be turned past a certain angle without indicating for a minimum period.

hmmm thats one idea, but sounds like it could have scary consequences “Argh my car wont turn what do I do?” (whilst still travelling obviously, braking always seems to be the last resort). I’ve been filtering passed car near junctions and they suddenly swung a left. If they had been indicating no way would I have filtered (or I’d have gone down the right of them) had a guy this morning, I was passing him as he started to speed up straight on or left ahead I’m not indicating as I’m going straight on neither is he, I look around a few times trying to figure out where he is going, he slowed down seemingly unsure of what I was doing but he didn’t slow down to get behind me just enough to block me in as he cut left left alongside me (he did indicate mid manoeuvre)

DONK…not suggesting that a cyclist waits in the blind spot, that is the existing problem with vehicles turning left, they cant see the cyclist close, down and to their left…they cant even do a quick shoulder check as you could if you were checking the right side of the vehicle as the steering wheel is the wrong side for this kind of incident.
I’m suggesting waiting in line, like the rest of the traffic.

Some cyclists seem to have this obsession with getting places ASAP and it leads to stupid behaviour like running red lights, filtering down the inside of vehicles etc….its almost like the militant ones are out to prove a point about how much quicker a bike can be in the city, its pointless if you’re dead.
If a junction, roundabout etc looks dangerous then just wait in line with the rest of the traffic until you can be sure of turning left without a large vehicle squishing you, its really not that hard but some of the lycra clad warriors i see in town seem to have a great deal of difficulty with it.

If I won the lottery, I would buy a massive box of front/rear lights and multi-packs of batteries to hand out to people who I saw riding without lights.

Can’t say it would be top of my list!

I reckon appropriate algorithms could be worked out in conjunction with GPS. They’ve been developing self driving cars for years whereas my suggestion would be simpler given that you still have the driver. It could force people to drive more considerately and safely if they know they need to indicate and or slow down a bit. Forcing drivers to think ahead could calm things down considerably. Unfortunately I doubt that there’s the will at the moment to introduce a potentially costly system unless it allows people to overcome access restrictions.

I don’t know if this is always the case, but from what I’ve observed with several cars it seems to be the case that the indicator flashes alternately to your dashboard, and that the dashboard flashes first. So many people seem to indicate as they manoeuvre, perhaps as they brush the control as they turn the wheel. Therefore they might think they’re indicating just about in time when in fact they’re already well into the manoeuvre.

..the militant ones are out to prove a point … lycra clad warriors …

It really is incredibly depressing to hear language like this on a bike forum. 🙁

..the militant ones are out to prove a point … lycra clad warriors …

It really is incredibly depressing to hear language like this on a bike forum

The wording is not ideal but I can appreciate the sentiment. I do think that some cyclists, be it in lycra or not, do not do themselves any favours weaving in and out of traffic and running red lights etc. I just think that if we want and expect other road users to treat and respect us like a motor vehicle we should ride as though we are in charge of a motor vehicle.

I just think that if we want and expect other road users to treat and respect us like a motor vehicle we should ride as though we are in charge of a motor vehicle.

I want and expect other road users to treat me as if I’m a cyclist.

I just think that if we want and expect other road users to treat and respect us like a motor vehicle we should ride as though we are in charge of a motor vehicle.

we want to be treated like a legitimate road user we don’t want to be treated like a car because we aren’t remotely similar.

(normally) Cars don’t wobble, cars don’t fall over, cars don’t get blown several feet sideways in strong winds. We are different and need to be treated as such. Drivers want to be able to get passed us asap in free flowing traffic but some get into a right tizzy when we pass them in heavy traffic, they can’t have it both ways. We’re different but we still have every right to be there

more to the point, the idea that i can’t expect to be treated with respect because other people (who happen to also ride bikes) are idiots, is a little odd.

if we want and expect other road users to treat and respect us like a motor vehicle we should ride as though we are in charge of a motor vehicle

You mean ignore any road laws that don’t suit us and aggressively bully other road users that get in our way?

It really is incredibly depressing to hear language like this on a bike forum.

You’ve not been coming here long then. Depressingly frequent.

ome cyclists, be it in lycra or not, do not do themselves any favours weaving in and out of traffic and running red lights etc. I just think that if we want and expect other road users to treat and respect

blah blah blah blah

Bez, of this parish, puts it very well

Respect does not have to be earned.

You can walk out into the street, see hundreds of people whom you’ve never met before in your life, and you can respect them. You can let them do what they’re doing, wear what they’re wearing, say what they’re saying. It’s perfectly normal and natural and – by and large – everyone does this. It’s basic respect that we all have for each other by default.

Yet, somehow, many people seem to have a philosophical problem with extending this to the idea of driving in such a way as to simply ensure that these people stay alive.

Bez, of this parish, puts it very well

Bez linked to this blog article on Twitter about an hour ago:

http://primlystable.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/dead-cyclists-missing-helmets-and.html

What I was trying to say is that we as cyclists should obey the the laws of the road. Too often I see cyclists that do not.

Furthermore I do want to be treated like a motor vehicle, meaning that other road users would let ke know of their intentions by using indicators, give me ample space when overtaking, don’t cut me up etc.

I am quite looking forward to leaving the office tonight and hope to find a policeman to discuss the lack of helmets with. sadly being out of the centre chances are I wont see one.

Bez, sums it up nicely.

C’mon folks they should be focused on lights. I see enough numptys cycling in the dusk /dark without and its a personal hobby to point it out as I pass them.

What I was trying to say is that we as cyclists should obey the the laws of the road. Too often I see cyclists that do not.

Yeah, I agree we should, but so should motorists.

Why should cyclists only expect respect if every single one of them obeys a set of rules that other road users regularly ignore?

Surely if anyone should be sticking to the rules it is the folk behind the wheel of vehicles that injure 200,000 people a year?

So now the village idiot Boris is blaming it on headphones

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/boris-johnson-considers-banning-cyclists-headphones

I do think that some cyclists, be it in lycra or not, do not do themselves any favours weaving in and out of traffic and running red lights etc.

and every single car user is such a paragon of virtue
In any group you get those who dont obey the rules but when the heavy metal boxed dont do it we are more likely to get injured folk.

I have yet to hear anyone point out that some car drivers drive really badly so we can show a lack of respect to them all

Its not my fault , and their is **** all i can do about, if other road users drive poorly. Give me some respect please for I am vulnerable as I am not in a large metal box designed to protect me in the event of a crash

I gave up on these threads even on a “cycling community” the car is king and we are dicks for cycling

Sad isn’t that even on a cycling forum we still get bullshit about earning respect and obeying the rules.

Everyone has a right to respect on the road.

Everyone should obey the rules of the road.

I want to be treated like a human being who may have a wife, a husband, kids, friends, and not have anyone risk my life or anyone else’s because of their selfish need to get where they want to be 10 seconds faster than they were going to before I appeared ‘in the way’.

What I was trying to say is that we as cyclists should obey the the laws of the road. Too often I see cyclists that do not.

Despite many laws of the road existing for the benefit of motorists, I agree with you. However, the consequences to others of cyclists breaking the law are rather different to motorists…so which do we focus on?