Menopause and potential family destruction

Mrs Vlad has resisted using HRT due to some (unknown to me*) serious side affects. Mrs Vlad has been a nurse for 30+ years and she’s not a homeopathic pushing quack or similarly inclined.

It seems from skim reading Davina McCaul’s book, that some of the risks previously ascribed to HRT have been exaggerated in the past. There are some of course, like any medicine but it seems for many people they are low and the benefits outweigh them. There are also benefits outwith controlling menopause symptoms. Like avoiding osteoporosis and muscle wastage which can contribute to frailness and falls in later life. I think the actual products and understanding of dosage has improved too. As Mrs Bloke has had a hysterectomy, she can have oestrogen only HRT which reduces the low risk even further.

id be lying if I said that year hadn’t changed my view of my wife.

Ditto here. I’ve been very unhappy with my treatment this last couple of years and it has changed how I feel about her.

What makes it really suck is her utter refusal to discuss it, and dismissal of its affect on the rest of the family.

I mourn the passing of my wife. This new person that looks like her is not the same. She is mirthless, slow-witted, hair trigger irritable and overbearing. I don’t know what our future holds, but if we could reach an accord I would settle for that.

☹️

My normally inherently calm and patient wife got to the stage where you could sometimes see real hatred of me in her face and actions. Luckily (in a scary way) she also started getting suicidal thoughts and that was enough for me to insist on a joint GP appointment.

Sadly the initial treatment plan was telephone therapy, but by the then the thought of menopause has risen to the fore and she found herself asking the therapist to be referred back to the GP for menopause investigation/treatment and after a few questions they 100% agreed with her.

HRT to a calmer life was literally a few days although there are still occasional wobbles (nothing like this time two years ago though)

The shortage of HRT briefly caused an issue (I too have done the cross-town dash to a pharmacy with stock), but now she is on patches which seem more readily available.

Frustrating to hear people saying that their GP refuses treatment. Davina’s book gets a lot of well deserved praise for bringing this subject more in to the open. If you can face it, mumsnet also has some very good advise/facts, but don’t post as a bloke as you will probably live to regret it!

3 quick points as a GP-

HRT is not always the solution. It’s not suitable for some women, and in others it doesn’t really work. Also some of my patients do tend to use me as an excuse when they don’t want to do something.

It’s not that the risks of HRT were exaggerated in the past, in fact initially they were massively underplayed, but when the true level of risk came out, there was a backlash, as there often is. What has also become clearer over time is also that certain modalities of HRT are safer than others.

It’s not that oestrogen only HRT is safer, it’s that not having a uterus and ovaries removes a lot of the risk of HRT.

I am really sorry to hear all these, quite frankly, terrifying experiences of people we know changing so fundamentally. It seems I have been fortunate (so far) with my experience. My wife has been struggling for the last year or so, seeing a doctor on more than one occasion, with nothing happening. Fortunately, she saw what was happening to herself – tiredness, forgetfulness, irritability, emotional and feelings of failure etc but she only very rarely let that effect how she treats me or our two teenage girls (or our foster kid – which is a miracle given the stress he can cause us). This led her to continue to pursue her GP surgery and eventually she managed to speak to one doctor who sympathised, understood what she was going through and put a plan in place so she is now on HRT (and taking benefit from the ‘discount’). She has only been on them for about three months so far so not really seeing a massive change yet, but hopefully, that will come.

But what this thread has reminded me is that I do need to make much more effort to speak to her more, make sure she is okay and do more to support her – all this can get lost in the day-to-day of living our lives.

Definitely try and get your wife to see the GP, they are much better than they were. My wife is on two HRT meds. The mood swings are much better. Remember she probably doesn’t realise. My wife can ‘go off on one’, always me and my son and ‘we’ are the cause of her ‘anxiety’. I tend to ignore it, but it’s flared up once or twice between my son (now 22) and her – had to get in between them. It does not help if your wife has a very accurate memory, so anything you’ve ever done wrong just get’s thrown at you.

All you can do is persuade her to see the GP – she’ll feel much better for it, less exhausted etc. My wife is on two meds for it presently.

Edited: not sure it was helpful for this thread

We are lucky that our kids are adults and not living with us when the dreaded Menopause happened. I was a massively supporting husband and finally gave up when the abuse (I pick that word carefully) became unbearable. I suggested we either separate or she lets me shag other women. She didn’t respond but that actually helped quite a lot and I didn’t really have much to lose anyway. She has quite literally become another person since the menopause and it’s not her fault. The thing is, it’s not mine either and I am convinced I am not going to get another life after that one so not really prepared to be unhappy for the rest of my days, or another few days for that matter.
I also got into the Menoporsche thing.
Things have however since then carrying on improving and we are probably seeing the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel after 2 or 3 very rocky years.

Fistly, OP, sorry to hear this – but it seems a lot of members here are/have experienced issues with their partners peri-menopause/menopause.

We could really do to get this linked to the women only forum.

For me – there are two separate but related issues. First, the symptoms suffered by women and second the issues that their partners may be coping with.

For us there is a couple of complicating issues – one the that my wife is also coping with my ill-health and that causes significant worry to her, but also that for the first time in our relationship – that due to redundancy, I have had to take a job where my earnings have dropped by 60% and she is now earns the highest wage.

Sometimes, I am not sure which issue I am dealing with – peri-menopause, worries about my health and a drop in our joint income. This isn’t helped that since my brain haemorrhage – I become irritable and angry more easily.

Tell her to buy a motorbike and move to the Forest of Dean

Just to say, there are women who think going on HRT is ‘the easy way out’, or cheating to some extent. My sister won’t go on it, and nor did my mum.

But if it stops her feeling like shoot, totally knackered and the mood swings why not ?. I’m not so sure how long women stay on HRT for though – still only a couple of years in for MrsF. We had the I want to be on my own, or I want to die stuff ! It’s not pleasant being on the receiving end.

Everything is still my fault, I still get picked up for stupid shite like winding the hoover cable the wrong way when she comes to use it – not that my wife hoovers often – I do it every day.

Or like I apply my TRT gel wrong – erm no, I’ve been doing it 10 years and just use a finger rather than have the lot on my whole hand – allows more to absorb into my skin rather than wash a load of gel off my hand – there is no telling them. Reduces chance of contamination too – with two women in the house.

Supply has been an issue for MrsF, but I’ve had supply issues for TRT (dodgy op downstairs) and have recently had to change – some of this is more education about prescribing HRT, leading to higher demand and still issues around supply that were there already.  Doctors didn’t used to like prescribing.

surfer

This. If it impacted men this wouldnt happen…

Must be my imagination that I’ve been driving round looking for my TRT then.

Not to mention I had to actually cry in the doctors before they’d let me even go to have my levels checked in the first place.

eta; 10 minutes later i’m still cross about this post and that it has a bunch of ‘likes’

go on a trt forum and see what they have to say about the NHS and you will find out what things are really like for mens health in the nhs. It’s poorly understood and you have to fight tooth and nail every step of the way not to be fobbed off.

Basically this was a really ignorant thing to post

Just to say, there are women who think going on HRT is ‘the easy way out’, or cheating to some extent. My sister won’t go on it, and nor did my mum.

Some people view any health issue as a weakness.

My wife is peri-menopausal and was in a right state until a couple of months ago, getting depressed , ratty and really struggling with stress at work, but no where near as bad as you describe. She went to the GP and went on HRT patches and amazingly quickly was back to her normal self.

same for my wife. Thankfully she got sorted quickly. Her periods are all over the place, amongst a few other symtoms but the HRT is helping massively with everything.

Oddly it appears to be a taboo subject for many women and some medical professionals still cant get their heads round it from what i understand. I hope you wife get the support and help she needs.

my wife’s GP told her point blank that the NHS did not provide HRT

Your wife’s GP was talking through their hoop!

It’s worse than that, the GP knew full well they offer HRT, but for some reason she wanted to cut the conversation off and not even discuss it.

Its only since people such as Davina McCall and Louise Minchen brought Menopause into the ‘open’, has it been discussed and more information has been brought to light.
I personally was too late for this new generation of women who are brave enough to talk about the problems. It was still a subject ‘swept under the carpet’ and not for the likes of men to have to deal with for me, even 6 years ago.

This thread has been lovely and I hope the OP can get some sympathy and understanding from all the information. But please OP go to your Dr or make a joint appointment. You can’t and mustn’t carry on with this.

Sounds like my wife. However she is late 30’s – too early for the menopause? Either way every month she blows her fuse, and obviously its all my fault.

Sounds like my wife. However she is late 30’s – too early for the menopause? Either way every month she blows her fuse, and obviously its all my fault.

Peri-menopause can happen at that age – it is not as common but it is not impossible. The NHS has some information about it here. My wife is 47 so much more common at her age, but she has spoken to her friends (all of a similar age) and almost everyone has experienced this in the last few years.

Even without a dodgy op men change too:

Other possible symptoms include decreased energy, motivation and confidence, depressed mood, and poor concentration. It’s also possible to experience increased sleepiness, sleep disturbances, mild unexplained anemia, reduced muscle bulk and strength, and increased body fat.

In my first post I started with “out the other side here” and others have posted to similar effect. It’s another phase in your life, another challenge not chosen but there to be met . Congratulations to those on the thread who’ve been non-judgemental, helpful and supporting without being pushy. For us out-the-other-side is going fine, another phase in life to be enjoyed while our health holds out.

I think it’s important not to use the menopause, female and/or male, as a scapegoat, it’s one factor among many affecting how we feel at that stage in life. In our case dealing with junior in a very challenging phase, two parents ill then dying, work. Things demanding energy and resilliance at a time when things are getting harder due to age with or without the menopause.

It’s much easier to deal with all the daily crap and people being arses when you’re looking forward to something you enjoy. We rock and roll danced, walked a lot together, Madame renewed her childhood passion for horses… .

Edit: quick conference with Madame, menopause proper, 52 -57

my wife recently went on hrt, but she later found she had a under active thyroid, since that diagnosis her energies have improved a lot.   thought I’d mention it, as sometimes it might not be Menopause , but something with  similar/related issues?

Different perspective: having had zero testosterone for over 12 months, I experience these symptoms (and more) every hour of every day.

The OP can’t fix this. I’d stop trying as I think you might make matters worse. You probably can’t imagine how she really feels. What would she think if she read all this? Why are you trying to change her?

It’s her business and she has made it clear that she doesn’t want help. Batten down the hatches or help her pack her bags and support her in the way she wants rather than what you want. Let her find her own way through this whilst leaving the door open. Tough love. Life is too short.

Just to say, there are women who think going on HRT is ‘the easy way out’, or cheating to some extent. My sister won’t go on it, and nor did my mum.

They need to check their privilege, I work with women who can’t access HRT due to genetic breast cancer concerns. Suffering un-necessarily doesn’t make one special, they would see medics for broken legs and bleeding why not for hormonal imbalance that makes life miserable for the sufferer and those around them?

Why are you trying to change her?

Perhaps, because abuse is never right – regardless of the cause. No-one has the right to subject people to abuse.

Just a thought…

For a woman, starting the menopause is about the most unavoidable reminder there is that she’s getting old. As well as all the hormonal issues, there can be another impact on mental health – “I’m old, I can’t hide that fact from myself now” which can be pretty tough to deal with.

Having your husband tell you you must be menopausal won’t help with that side of things, particularly given the media focus on older man / younger woman and older women mostly being portrayed as less attractive.

And, as was mentioned above, it might not be menopause – it could be that PMT is getting worse and there’s a different underlying health issue.

Does the timing of her bad days actually line up with periods starting, or are you just assuming that?

I saw this a while ago.  Carol Vorderman talking to a Select Committee about government policy on Menopause support.

time stamp at discussion on family impact.  It’s all worth a listen, though – you can ignore the click-baity title and 40 second agro highlights intro.

Maybe it might help to find a way of talking about the wider problem, without focus on her and her symptoms and behaviour?  It might be a way of showing her a different perspective, to see what she’s going through (and putting you through) as a less emotional, less personal problem and something that possible to be worked through rationally, not just be wrapped up in shame and despair and shut in a box until next time.

I recognise a lot of what the OP describes as I’m going through it myself now. A lot of the comments that other people have added also rings so true. When I’m in that ‘state’ I can remember ALL the times my partner has pissed me off and not apologised and all I want is to finish the relationship. However, apart from seeming sad and slightly cold, I haven’t had any outbursts and instead hidden my feelings. I’m not sure when it started, but in the last couple of months the feelings of wanting to leave became really strong, to then disappear completely a few days later, and I suspected I was entering the unpredictable stage of perimenopause.

What I did was to sit down and explain how I was feeling, about the things that had pissed me off that I couldn’t quite forgive him for, while also acknowledging that the hormones were to blame for overreacting and in my case making the bad thoughts ‘balloon’ in my head. At the time my partner didn’t really help me solve the issues from the past (too stubborn) but what I have noticed is that he’s more caring now and much more positive and I’m hoping this will be something that I can remember once the mist falls again. While inside it, trust me, you don’t see that you are irrational, it is only when you look back you see it. I’ve told him to be patient, that I need lots of hugs and for him not to take my mood swings to indicate that I want to be ignored, but rather supported.

My advice to a partner would be to provide a supportive environment, to be patient, to see if in fact there are genuine things that perhaps you do (or don’t do) that legitimately feeds your partners anger. Maybe you need to swallow your pride and address things that have been small issues that now have become genuine deal breakers, not just blame the menopause. Pouring blame will definitely not work and neither will demanding your partner should change and ‘just’ go back to be the way they were. Addressing the problem objectively and sympathetically while your partner isn’t in the ‘mist’ and if nothing else works there’s always drugs (and riding your bike).

That’s my 10 pence worth, but hey ho, perhaps I’ll be single in a months time! Who knows, it feels like all bets are off when it comes to the menopause.

There are two things about the menopause to consider – the physical symptoms and then the psychological impact. Personally I’m scared of it – not so much the physical stuff (honestly being a woman has some serious design flaws so I’ve already had 40 years of all sorts of weirdness) but it’s a big old sign that the train is running out of track and that is terrifying. There are big thoughts like ‘Have I done stuff I wanted to do with this life?’ And also all the worries about aging in general from ‘will I still be loved?’ through to ‘will I still be able to mountain bike?’. Then there are the actual physical issues which can create a really horrid place to be. Hormones and anxieties are a fairly potent blend.

I think everyone needs to have those ‘is this really where I wanted to be?’ thoughts every few years and think about planning a future that is where they want to be. Maybe it’s a bit like mountain biking – you look at the trail beyond and suddenly that nasty rock ‘just goes’.

If you have the conversation about where you both want to be in the future (when things are ok) and begin working towards that, it might reframe the conversation about how you get through the tough bits right now. Which may open up the idea of getting help too. All the best, that’s scary stuff.

Every month, when she gets her prescription she collects it in person and has to drive round the County trying to find a chemist with any stock – it can take several days to find one and then she has to drop everything, rush straight there hoping it hasn’t been sold before she gets there.

Every frigging month…

Demand seems to far exceed current supply.

From a Pharmacy side of things, stock of medication is a lot better. Recent shortages in progesterone capsules (utrogestan) and medroxyprogesterone tablets seem to be fine although a savvy Dr will prescribe HRT patches generically, not by bl**dy brand…

Lots of patients have said using HRT (male and female) has made a huge difference to their lives, so definitely an option to consider. Maybe have a delicate word with their close friend or female family member?

I started HRT 2 months ago due to the mood swings, the chronic sleep deprivation and concentration problems. Luckily for me, I have a really close friendship group and we’re all going through this at the same time so I had someone to talk to about it, plus a very chilled and understanding boss.

Sleep improved within a week and, as I said to my friends, I was able to do the shopping without wanting to stab my husband. I knew I was being out of order but I just couldn’t stop myself.

My symptoms are nowhere near the severe but HRT has definitely helped. I’d encourage your wife to talk to her friends if she won’t go to the GP ……

Some really honest and brave posts on here from women affected, and it’s made me reconsider my/our situation. I have issues of anxiety/depression and some of the descriptions of the mental effects sound similar to how I feel on the bad days.

The physical and hormonal changes, often coinciding with kids leaving home, must all seem like a perfect storm of your mortality, and “whats next in the time i have left”. MrsMC has the additional pressure that the extra wear and tear caused by her disability is beginning to cause other physical problems.

I think some men get a less extreme version of the mental pressures when their mortality is brought home to them. I’ve seen with friends how changes in priorities and/or long standing unaddressed issues at this kind of age have ended relationships.

Definitely need to improve my communication (which takes two!) and do more to be supportive, but make it clear that when I’m on the wrong end of that “look of hatred” that I set boundaries on what I will put up with.

Really, really useful and informative thread for me, and i hope the OP feels the same.

I think you just need to make sure you have an honest dialogue with your partner, tell her how you feel, that it worries you and more importantly it worries the kids. But be very reassuring that you are there for her, and try and address anything she has raised to.

Not the same, but i have commented on her about becoming Type 2 diabetic following second bout of COVID, i am usually very laid back, and like to think i am an easy person to be around, but occasionally when my blood glucose rises or drops really quickly (especially hangry!) I have mood swings, and i feel like someone watching someone else having them, i can feel myself getting angry over small things, but I can’t seem to stop it. Again my daughter is Type 1 and can have these mood swings too, insulin is a hormone, and can go from angel to devil in 10 minutes, not helped by being 13 and puberty.

So my poor wife gets it in stereo sometimes, but I have had to be honest with her and close friends and apologise and say, sorry it isn’t the real me, and i an feel myself slipping sometimes, but i have got a lot better about recognising the signs.

So just be honest with her and try and have an open talk about it. It may even take ones of the kids saying something.

When I’m in that ‘state’ I can remember ALL the times my partner has pissed me off and not apologised and all I want is to finish the relationship.

Does make you wonder how many divorces could be avoided if we had better access to treatment.

Try these guys for help with the menopause – have heard very good things:

https://goldster.co.uk/class-list/menopause-coaching/

My normally inherently calm and patient wife got to the stage where you could sometimes see real hatred of me in her face and actions

This… sometimes I could make a mildly sarcastic comment that we would both laugh at, other times it’s like it would result in a period of complete rage. It got to the stage where I was constantly walking on eggshells, overthinking my actions and anything I said. Once I didn’t reply to her with what she wanted to hear and she went ape for no apparent reason. I obviously looked shocked and she demanded to know why I ‘looked so scared’.

I calmly replied that I was scared because the person whom I had spent the past 30 years with, that was loving, could laugh at herself and me and was fun to be with had been taken over by someone I didn’t recognise and I was scared that the original person would never come back…  after that she went to the GP.

It took a little while to get the dose right but it’s more or less spot on now and we’re back on an even keel. What I do notice is that if she ever runs out, even for a few days it doesn’t take long for it to be noticeable in her behaviour again.

Adding myself as another on the list of clueless husbands.

I feel like I’m despised a lot of the time.

I can’t say anything without being contradicted or criticised.

It doesn’t appear to be cyclical, but very unpredictable. Anger almost at boiling point immediately, with no obvious trigger.

I think (!) I am endlessly patient and endure uncomplaining, but it’s really soul destroying to feel so resented and to be avoided at every turn. I can’t speak to her about it either.

I’m not sure if it’s from the empty nest approaching, the menopause, the work patterns upended by Covid (previously I was away for most of the week; now I’m rarely not WFH).

The last time she said anything complimentary, or even nice to me, was a long time back. Years.

I get a lot of gaslighting-type criticism/ contradiction. I’m not sure if this is her poor memory, or deliberate, but it’s not nice. I end up questioning my own memory of what I have done and said.

I can’t walk away, and don’t want to, but it’s a real slog each day, hoping to avoid saying the wrong thing, or not saying the right thing, or not being sufficiently supportive, or …

I have no answers; just another soul in the same sort of position and taking it a day at a time.

Expatscot – its an impossible situation. My wife gaslighted me in front of our councillor this week, then when the councillor sided with my recollection of what she said, she still denied she said it. Gaslighting is such a simple technique for those that way inclined, but you lose your sense of reality, your sense of self believe, and ultimately, yourself.

I dont think its about having answers, however a framework to understand the behaviour helps. I was exposed to a psychopathic relationship a few years back, so i am accustomed to projecting, gaslighting, walking on eggshells, Jekyll and hyde, mask on/off – and i believe this has thickened my skin and allows me to cope better with my current situation.

Still however i am going to the doctors on Monday, i want to explore further techniques to help me cope and the doctors advice on how to approach wife with exploring HRT. At the minute i resent my wife, id be much happier if i could walk away, but our young twins will keep us together, for their sake.

In some cases it’s totally understandable – and probably preferable – to part ways.

The thread title references “family destruction”, but the family members (including children) might all be happier after a split.

Obviously there’s a strong urge to try and make it work, on a one-to-one level and in terms of cultural conformity, but divorce is there for a reason. It’s not a failure.

Just to add my 2pennorth, my OH has been perimenopausal for “some time”. Possibly since the birth of our daughter 11 years ago. She has a history of depression, so it’s difficult to separate the symptoms of one and the other, plus effects of AD’S.

Lots of echoes of similar behaviour as others have said, the extreme mood swings are very difficult for me to deal with.

It took a few goes to get the right HRT, but she’s on Oestrogen/Progesterone patches now and they’ve definitely made a difference. The Progesterone weeks can be a bit hairy, but the Oestrogen weeks are nearly back to who she was.

In some cases it’s totally understandable – and probably preferable – to part ways.

The thread title references “family destruction”, but the family members (including children) might all be happier after a split.

Obviously there’s a strong urge to try and make it work, on a one-to-one level and in terms of cultural conformity, but divorce is there for a reason. It’s not a failure.

I totally, utterly and completely *DO NOT* agree with that. If there is no fundamental reason, beyond the menopause causing mood swings, then people should be there to support each other, not just give up and say %^*£ it, this is too hard. Sorry, but it’s a horrible attitude to have.

It got to the stage where I was constantly walking on eggshells, overthinking my actions and anything I said. Once I didn’t reply to her with what she wanted to hear and she went ape for no apparent reason.

I feel like I’m despised a lot of the time.

I recognise these two very well. It’s got to the stage that I don’t offer opinion because if it isn’t immediately validatory of her views, I am to be hated.

Its like she has a big tombola where all my words go in and get tumbled until the exact opposite of what I said comes out.

For the same reasons I don’t actively engage in conversation if I can avoid it, because 1. I’ve learned its futile, 2. it just presents more opportunities for me to be attacked.

I feel utterly rejected and it makes me very sad, but reading this thread is helpful insofar as at least I know I’m not the only one.

My kids are 17 and 19 and due to strike out on their own very soon. Frankly, I’m pretty terrified about what that means for what’s coming next.

I now understand what all those middle aged men are doing in the pub by themselves – its the only safe space they have left.