We had guests over for the weekend who are keen runners and in a moment of (sadly non-beer induced) bravado I’ve managed to volunteer myself for the Eindhoven marathon. The plus is that it’s not until October so I have some time to prepare. The main problem is the guy who ‘challenged’ me is a 3:15 marathon runner, so I need to get up to speed if he’s not going to win the bet (we have a pint resting on it, so serious stuff).

I’ve always been an OK runner, and have been running a bit more regularly over the last year and am currently sub 40min for 10km (on a track, a few mins slower on tarmac). We ran 20km yesterday which is my longest run for ages and I can walk today but am certainly feeling it, and it was a fairly steady pace 6:30-7:00min/km.

At the moment a typical week would be, Monday 5-8km run, Tuesday 5-8km run, Wednesday 1-2hrs bike ride, Thursday rest day, Friday 10-12km run, Saturday sometimes a ride, usually too busy though, Sunday 2-3hrs bike ride. I can’t really commit any more time to training, but could swap things around and possibly fit in some split sessions but time would be limited in the morning. Are three runs per week enough (I’m thinking no)? Is the lack of a long Sunday run going to hamper me too much? I don’t really want to miss my ride on Sunday if I can help it.

Any suggestions for a training plan that includes some biking?

Buy him a lot of pints before the race ,you will get one back.

I found some via Google, but they’re aimed at triathlon/duathlon, and hence are shorter running distances, e.g.[list]
[*]http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=52[/*]
[*]http://www.lifetimeendurance.com/public/186.cfm[/*]
[*]http://gbr.garmin.com/training/en/triathlon.html[/*]
[/list]Garmin have basic running training plans at various distances (no cycling):
http://gbr.garmin.com/training/en/running.html
Maybe use them to cobble together a sensible training plan that gets you the running miles in – slowly increasing each week to avoid injury.

Or go see a personal trainer!

My 2p

Don’t be tempted to peak early, I did this last autumn, was in great shape 8 weeks before the marathon then picked up an injury

This year is going MUCH better, lower milage and started the hard training with 12 weeks to go

I am following pfitzinger and douglas 12 week plan up to 55 miles and subing some of the workouts for bike rides. For example last weeks mid week runs were 12 Miles steady and 12 miles with 7 at threshold. Instead I did 12 Miles steady and 1:30 on the bike with 45 mins at threshold.

Its working really really well so far, bash out a 10miler yesterday in 1:01:45, and no inljury with 5 weeks to go!

You need to try to find some time on Saturday really. You could do a longer run then and keep Sunday for biking.
Swap your 1-2hr weekly bike ride for a 1-2hr run!

3:15 is not super fast but you will need to do some harder running. Plus your other weekly runs are a bit short, try to get them up to around 10km and make at least one of them either farltek or a tempo run. Maybe introduce some intervals somewhere as well 😀

djglover that is a good time. The threshold stuff is very important far to many runners training to run a marathon focus only on the mileage. It has to include faster running as well.

You’re off to a great start with your 10k time, long runs are what’s missing. You can do a marathon off 3 runs a week, but not ideal. I wouldn’t bother much with steady 5k-ish runs if you want to go long – make it easy (recovery) or hard (effort, intervals, fartlek) …but you probably wont be doing recovery runs on 3x a week 🙂

I’m following a plan generated here*. 3:15 is a pretty good time – you’ll be needing to run at least 4 times a week, the shorter runs will be 1-1.5 hours long, the big weekend run >2… Serious question: can you dedicate enough time for this? I’m still riding my bike on Sundays, but TBH there are some weekends when it’s a real effort and I don’t enjoy it as much as I could.

*Actually generated the plan on the Spanish runners world website, it gives the distances in km. Link follows as the UK website plan generator seems a little flakey at times: http://tinyurl.com/c5txq5a

I agree that you need to be running on a Sunday. I am running 3 in 4 sundays at the moment. The other 1 in 4 was a hard club training run of 116 miles, so it does give some aerobic benefit! But it takes all bloody day.!

I put one of my times into that generator and it gave me a very hard schedule! I wasnt training that hard when I ran the time 😯

I think non personal schedules always over do it a bit. Logic being if you can do the training you will almost certainly run the time.

I agree that you need to be running on a Sunday

Not really the long Sunday run has come about simply because it takes ages and people like company because it can be boring. You can do your longer run any time but you will likely do it in the dark or on your own! 7 days isnt really enough time for a proper schedule, 10 days is more natural.

Join a local running club. Most do a session on a Tuesday and Thursday. Have you a local ‘Park Run’? Good for raw speed. Lots of running at 60-70% of your max heart rate (a HR monitor will be a great aid to train properly), then 2-3 hard sessions, with a time on your feet to get a long run in once a week. I use my bike lots as well and when I’m feeling tired, I ride rather than run. Gives my legs a rest from the pounding.

Never done a marathon, but this training got me a 68.50 1/2 marathon. The only thing I’d do differently for a full would be a weekly build up run at my desired marathon pace eg. week 1 – 8 miles @ target pace; week 2 – 9 miles @ target pace etc.. to a about 18 miles, then start tapering off with a week or so to go.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, I’m liking fasthaggis plan, but think it will have to be some sort of combination of the others!

I was thinking that I would have to drop at least one ride, but I’m entered into a marathon (mtb style) series which runs through the summer so need some bike miles as well.

I can probably go a bit longer on the weeknight runs, certainly the Monday and Tuesday ones – I’m sure the dog won’t mind. I was expecting/dreading intervals to be involved!

We were discussing it over dinner yesterday and another guy who’s a very good runner thought that I was capable of faster time, he thought sub 3:00, but I would have to dedicate a lot more time, his words were anything slower than 3:00 is just jogging! I have run 2:52 in my only ever marathon, but that was 20 years ago.

I’m going for a run now, but it will be a steady one after yesterday!

I put one of my times into that generator and it gave me a very hard schedule! I wasnt training that hard when I ran the time

Didn’t say it was easy, and your comment fills me with hope 🙂 But it’s fairly similar to most other plans I’ve seen on t’web. Obviously a personal trainer would be better, but that costs money!

All the plans seem to boil down to a long run, intervals, and recovery runs – whatever the distance involved.

I withdraw my advice, you must have a bit of form with a 2h52 marathon behind you? I’ve also just worked out who Sheffield is, he wins stuff 🙂

It’s entirely possible to combine biking and running. Might not be optimal but who wants optimal, especially if you have a short attention span. Bike hills are good crossover for run hills …maybe not so important in the Netherlands 🙂

I’ve run the Brighton marathon for the last few years without really following any specific plan. However this year I decided to take it a bit more seriously in an attempt to break 3 hours.

Anyway, the plan I picked was the furman first training plan which involves 3 runs a week plus cross training. The runs are:
– 1 interval session
– 1 tempo run
– 1 longer run
All of the sessions have specific paces to run at based on your best recent race performance. Also they all seem to be at quite a fast, but achievable, pace (much faster than I would probably run if I didn’t have a specific pace to target.)

The plan seems fairly flexible on when you do each session during the week, which allows me to fit it around bike training, family life etc…

Normally it should be a 16 week plan, however due to the lateness of deciding to follow a plan I’m only doing the last 9 weeks of it.

I’ll find out in 3 weeks time how effective it was.

– 1 interval session
– 1 tempo run
– 1 longer run

Pretty much sums it up. As a good mate of mine used to say “the rest is padding!

I was going to say no chance running a sub 3.15 marathon but then you come out with 2.52. With that sort of previous you don’t need to be asking advice for running on a mountain bike forum. It takes me an hour and a half to run a half and I can’t imagine doing it all over again at the same speed when I am crossing the finish line.

I’ve been following that Furman plan since new year.
– 1 interval session
– 1 tempo run
– 1 longer run

Plus one tempo session on the rollers, (2 * 20 mins @ 4W/kg)

I’ve thrown in another run session most weekends of around 80 minutes.

My aim is to run 2:50 at the Stockholm marathon this June then switch over and finish the national XC and marathon MTB series before moving to CX for the winter.

They’re hard sessions, but given enough rest very doable.

Yesterday I went 34:52 for a local 10km, which was way faster than I had expected so its working.

As others have said the longer run is key as it builds confidence and pacing.

Best of luck, a pint, hmm serious betting.

Thanks again everyone for the advice, I had only just skimmed through the thread yesterday but had a longer look last night and some of the linked stuff was interesting.

Sheffield: I’d skimmed over your post without really taking it in, what I call running and what you call running are two completely different things!

We actually have a pretty decent running club at work but I’ve not run with them much mainly because I like to take the dog with me when I run to kill two birds with one stone, I don’t mind running or biking on my own anyway– I’m a bit of a miserable git. I always wear a HRM when I run or ride, I’m a bit of a stats nerd when it comes to training and I find it handy to limit the pace during recovery days. I’m not sure about park runs (I’m based in Holland) but I’ve seen a cross country league in the local woods during the winter so I would imagine there is something like that going on somewhere. There is also municipal track a mile up the road from my house and they run events during the summer so I might be able to get some track races which will be ‘character building’.

richP & Swedish Chef: I like the look of the plan, and will certainly be looking at something along those lines. I know I need to up my volume, but focused harder sessions fit better with me than just running endless slow miles where I tend to slip into a too comfortable easy pace. I could ride my bike on ‘rest’ days as long as I don’t get carried away.

I was wavering a little and wondering whether I could commit the time needed to do myself justice, but I had to pop into the chemists last night and Compeed and Deep Heat were both on special offer so I took that as a sign to go for it! So I’m going to commit to the marathon in all honesty it is something I have thought about for a few years but needed a kick to go for it. I’ll just take it as they come with the MTB races (I’m no where near quick enough to contend in those either TBH), plus a few new pairs of running shoes are cheaper than the S-Works Epic that I needed.

Ultimately though I’m going to ignore all your advice and am meeting a coach next week, He trains some very decent runners and cyclists so will hopefully be able to sort me out a program and some realistic targets.

Ultimately though I’m going to ignore all your advice

That’s the spirit!

While you’re at the chemists, get some of this, highly recommended:

(Feel free to ignore my advice 🙂 )

Read Hal Hidgon’s Ultimate Marathon Book (it’s called something like that). Excellent and covers everything you need to know.
Then follow one of his training plans here: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51135/Marathon-Training-Guide

That really is all you need to know.